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  #31  
Old 03-06-18, 05:30 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
How about the 400 and the 300m hurdless?


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I have been around track a long time. That double at a state caliber level is not doable regardless of talent.
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  #32  
Old 03-06-18, 07:57 PM
Run4Life Run4Life is online now
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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
I have been around track a long time. That double at a state caliber level is not doable regardless of talent.
Actually there was a runner from Fairfiled Union in the 90's that did just that all the way to the state meet, but placed out of final in both.
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  #33  
Old 03-06-18, 09:12 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by Run4Life View Post
Actually there was a runner from Fairfiled Union in the 90's that did just that all the way to the state meet, but placed out of final in both.
Likely a state placer if running 1?
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  #34  
Old 03-06-18, 09:37 PM
Finishtiming Finishtiming is offline
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From 2001, Didn't win each but only person I know of that has tried it. If I remember right Jacob McCauley tried to actually triple at the state meet when it was at Dayton. Officials would not let him leave the awards podium to get ready for 3200 and he actually sprinted to the starting line seconds before the gun went off.

Event 9 Boys 1,600 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Saturday 06/02/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ========= ===
1 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 4:23.19 10

Event 17 Boys 800 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Saturday 06/02/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ========= ===
1 Papis Joh 12 Cle. Benedictine 1:53.33 10
2 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 1:54.46 8

Event 21 Boys 3,200 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Saturday 06/02/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ========== ===
1 Brian Olinger 12 W. Lafayette Ridgewood 9:26.21 10
2 Anthony Mion 11 Akron St. Vin.-St Mary 9:31.07 8
3 Cory Scheadler 12 Sardinia Eastern Brown 9:32.87 6
4 Matt Penza 12 Girard 9:35.74 5
5 Andrew Frum 12 Poland Seminary 9:40.96 4
6 Seth Hutchinson 11 Mogadore Field 9:42.57 3
7 Dave Balch 11 Spring. Northwestern 9:44.55 2
8 Aaron Iverson 12 Delaware Buckeye Valley 9:49.25 1
9 Adam Honnold 12 Greenfield McClain 9:51.29
10 David Howard 11 Canal Fulton Northwest 10:02.54
11 Nick Buzek 12 Akron St. Vin.-St Mary 10:04.89
12 Mike Sawicki 11 Ashtabula 10:05.64
13 Ben Bolock 12 Rayland Buckeye Local 10:07.19
14 Steve Draper 11 W. Milton Milton-Union 10:11.03
15 Cliff Moore 10 Clyde 10:32.44
16 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 10:45.72
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  #35  
Old 03-06-18, 09:46 PM
Finishtiming Finishtiming is offline
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2001 Regionals Results

Event 9 Boys 1,600 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Friday 05/25/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ======= ===
1 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 4:24.7h 10


Event 17 Boys 800 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Friday 05/25/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ======= ===
1 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 1:57.7h 10


Event 21 Boys 3,200 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Friday 05/25/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ======== ===
1 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 9:46.6h 10
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  #36  
Old 03-06-18, 10:22 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finishtiming View Post
From 2001, Didn't win each but only person I know of that has tried it. If I remember right Jacob McCauley tried to actually triple at the state meet when it was at Dayton. Officials would not let him leave the awards podium to get ready for 3200 and he actually sprinted to the starting line seconds before the gun went off.

Event 9 Boys 1,600 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Saturday 06/02/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ========= ===
1 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 4:23.19 10

Event 17 Boys 800 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Saturday 06/02/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ========= ===
1 Papis Joh 12 Cle. Benedictine 1:53.33 10
2 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 1:54.46 8

Event 21 Boys 3,200 Meter Run
Finals - Results - Saturday 06/02/01

PLACE ATHLETE NAME YR SCHOOL TIME PTS
===== ========================= == ========================= ========== ===
1 Brian Olinger 12 W. Lafayette Ridgewood 9:26.21 10
2 Anthony Mion 11 Akron St. Vin.-St Mary 9:31.07 8
3 Cory Scheadler 12 Sardinia Eastern Brown 9:32.87 6
4 Matt Penza 12 Girard 9:35.74 5
5 Andrew Frum 12 Poland Seminary 9:40.96 4
6 Seth Hutchinson 11 Mogadore Field 9:42.57 3
7 Dave Balch 11 Spring. Northwestern 9:44.55 2
8 Aaron Iverson 12 Delaware Buckeye Valley 9:49.25 1
9 Adam Honnold 12 Greenfield McClain 9:51.29
10 David Howard 11 Canal Fulton Northwest 10:02.54
11 Nick Buzek 12 Akron St. Vin.-St Mary 10:04.89
12 Mike Sawicki 11 Ashtabula 10:05.64
13 Ben Bolock 12 Rayland Buckeye Local 10:07.19
14 Steve Draper 11 W. Milton Milton-Union 10:11.03
15 Cliff Moore 10 Clyde 10:32.44
16 Jacob McCauley 12 Spring. Greenon 10:45.72
Brandon Siefker from Ottoville just tripled in DIII this past year:
He won the 1600 in 4:13.69
He struggled to 15th place in the 800 in 2:02.91
He bounced back to take 5th in the 3200 in 9:47.17

Steve Weaver of Napoleon qualified to state in all 3 back in 2012 but only ran the 3200 where Prakel defeated him to complete a successful 1600-3200 double.
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  #37  
Old 03-06-18, 10:30 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Brendan Siefker ran all three last year. Winning the 1600, 15th in 800 and was 5th in the 3200.

Edit: Noticed I was a little slow and provided less details.
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  #38  
Old 03-07-18, 12:37 AM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Brandon Siefker from Ottoville just tripled in DIII this past year:
He won the 1600 in 4:13.69
He struggled to 15th place in the 800 in 2:02.91
He bounced back to take 5th in the 3200 in 9:47.17

Steve Weaver of Napoleon qualified to state in all 3 back in 2012 but only ran the 3200 where Prakel defeated him to complete a successful 1600-3200 double.
Its easier to do in d3, then in the bigger divisions I would imagine. Any 800 time slower then 2:00 doesn't get past regionals in d2, or even past districts in d1. Its also unlikely that any 3200 slower then 9:40 gets to states in d1 either.
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  #39  
Old 03-07-18, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
Its easier to do in d3, then in the bigger divisions I would imagine. Any 800 time slower then 2:00 doesn't get past regionals in d2, or even past districts in d1. Its also unlikely that any 3200 slower then 9:40 gets to states in d1 either.
That 2:02 wouldn't have scored at his regional meet.
FWIW, Siefker won all 3 at regionals:
4:21.29
1:55.67
9:48.12
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  #40  
Old 03-07-18, 08:17 PM
starcatcher8 starcatcher8 is offline
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How is this for a great double! Reggie McAfee set all-time Ohio lows (at that time) in 1969 at the state meet. Reggie was from Cincinnati Courter Tech. Running in the AA State Track Meet at the Horseshoe on the OSU campus, he won the mile in 4:08.5 and less than 30 minutes later came back and won the 880 yard run in 1:52.5. The short time between the two events was because there was only a boys' state meet back then. I was a junior in high school at the time (spectator only) sitting in the stands, and I consider myself very fortunate to have watched these efforts in person.
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  #41  
Old 03-07-18, 09:30 PM
RunnerAdespota RunnerAdespota is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starcatcher8 View Post
How is this for a great double! Reggie McAfee set all-time Ohio lows (at that time) in 1969 at the state meet. Reggie was from Cincinnati Courter Tech. Running in the AA State Track Meet at the Horseshoe on the OSU campus, he won the mile in 4:08.5 and less than 30 minutes later came back and won the 880 yard run in 1:52.5. The short time between the two events was because there was only a boys' state meet back then. I was a junior in high school at the time (spectator only) sitting in the stands, and I consider myself very fortunate to have watched these efforts in person.
That's really impressive. Must have been quite a sight, especially to see it in person.

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  #42  
Old 03-07-18, 10:01 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Starcatcher8 has been around awhile. He told me how he used to train with Pheidippides.
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  #43  
Old 03-08-18, 08:40 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starcatcher8 View Post
How is this for a great double! Reggie McAfee set all-time Ohio lows (at that time) in 1969 at the state meet. Reggie was from Cincinnati Courter Tech. Running in the AA State Track Meet at the Horseshoe on the OSU campus, he won the mile in 4:08.5 and less than 30 minutes later came back and won the 880 yard run in 1:52.5. The short time between the two events was because there was only a boys' state meet back then. I was a junior in high school at the time (spectator only) sitting in the stands, and I consider myself very fortunate to have watched these efforts in person.
As an additional FYI - Reggie lowered his own then Ohio all-time record from 4:13.3 to 4:08.5 in that race, and 9.4 seconds faster than the previous State meet record. The 880 was also an all-time record, and a 2.1 second lowering of the previous State meet record. It was truly an historic double.
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  #44  
Old 03-08-18, 10:10 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
As an additional FYI - Reggie lowered his own then Ohio all-time record from 4:13.3 to 4:08.5 in that race, and 9.4 seconds faster than the previous State meet record. The 880 was also an all-time record, and a 2.1 second lowering of the previous State meet record. It was truly an historic double.
Best doubles I have watched personally

(1) Doug Bockenstette from LaSalle- D1- 1600 4:10 and 3200 in 9:03
**It was over 100 degrees that day at the horse shoe
(2) Danny Neff from Vandalia Butler- D1- 1600 4:09 and 800 in 1:51
***he came from way back to win the 800- truly awesome
(3) Bridget Franek- She won all 3 races and I believe in records too.
**Bridget was the most amazing, but competition was not there.
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  #45  
Old 03-08-18, 12:28 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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I still think the best distance double I have personally witnessed at the state meet was Scott Fry's 4:08 / 8:49 in 1985.
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  #46  
Old 03-08-18, 01:32 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is offline
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Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
Best doubles I have watched personally

(3) Bridget Franek- She won all 3 races and I believe in records too.
**Bridget was the most amazing, but competition was not there.
It's tough to get competition when you are setting records. She also was a member of the 4 X 800 with a 2:10 split the day before.
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  #47  
Old 03-08-18, 07:35 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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This isn't about the indoor meet, but the best double I witnessed at the State Meet(other than Franek's triple) was in 1991.

Darrell Hughes of Westland won the DI 1600 in 4:11 on a hot day and returned in the 800 to trail the field with a 57.7 on the first lap only to kick them all under in 1:52.7 or so. I remember feeling sorry for him that his coach was making him run the 800 after such a great 16oo so I timed him myself, hoping he would finish. after the quarter he looked done, so I rooted for him to catch someone....but then he reeled them ALL in. I kept his splits on my watch for about a week afterward to show people what I saw... 57.7 - 55.0.

May not be as good as McAfee (I'm not That old) and some others, but I witnessed it. and was a young coach then and it kept me coming back.
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  #48  
Old 03-09-18, 12:17 PM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
Best doubles I have watched personally

(1) Doug Bockenstette from LaSalle- D1- 1600 4:10 and 3200 in 9:03
**It was over 100 degrees that day at the horse shoe

(2) Danny Neff from Vandalia Butler- D1- 1600 4:09 and 800 in 1:51
***he came from way back to win the 800- truly awesome
(3) Bridget Franek- She won all 3 races and I believe in records too.
**Bridget was the most amazing, but competition was not there.
This may sound like nitpicking but Bockenstette ran 9:07.50 winning the 3200 at the state meet after his 4:10.14 1600m win. It was the following week at the Midwest Meet of Champions that he ran the 9:03.25. If I recall correctly, he didn't run the 1600m at MMC.
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  #49  
Old 03-12-18, 06:30 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
This may sound like nitpicking but Bockenstette ran 9:07.50 winning the 3200 at the state meet after his 4:10.14 1600m win. It was the following week at the Midwest Meet of Champions that he ran the 9:03.25. If I recall correctly, he didn't run the 1600m at MMC.
Thanks Lancermania. I knew Doug ran 9:03 but was unsure where. He was so close to breaking 9:00, which was unheard of in the 1980's and 1990's. I saw a stat a couple of weeks ago that more people broke 9:00 in 2015-2017 than the entire two decades of the 1980's and 1990's. This stat made me realize how special Doug was
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  #50  
Old 03-12-18, 07:46 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I'll take Bob Henes, Bob Kennedy, Mark Croghan, Andy Herr and many others in the 80's vs the runners now. Many more doubles back then and running just to win and not for a time. Henes ran slower at the state than at Districts or Regionals. He just won. They would be just as competitive now as they were then. Not saying they were better, but they would be just as good.

Also, I looked at our schedule this year and a varsity runner will run more meets in one season on all weather tracks than we ran in four seasons in the 80's. Can't even put a number on how far ahead we already are in the training one week into practice.

Not nearly as many kids wrestle or play basketball as did in the 80's. More of us did a winter sport than did not. Indoor track helps a lot. I ended basketball in terrible shape for distance running. I look at what workouts the kids can handle day one of practice and it's where I was mid April. I honestly do not know how we ran as fast as we did. We ate wrong and trained wrong compared to what they know and do now.

My dad is 85 and telling stories of when he ran, I can't believe how fast he ran with how they trained and their equipment. My dads spikes were about 10 times heavier than they have today. My kids laugh at my spikes. They are much heavier than they run in now.

Things evolve and they should. I honestly thought that by now, my times from back then would not be competitive, but they stand up and I would be very competitive still. I would hope I would be better as I would be training much better.

Access to information and times. I had no idea what anyone else in the rest of the state was running, so I had no idea what to shoot for. I would have trained differently and maybe would have chosen different events if I had access to what everyone else was doing every meet all over the state.

In the 1600, my times would drop over 20 seconds from the league meet to Regionals and State. I had no idea I could run that fast because I just ran to the competition and I was running on cinder tracks with 1/2" spikes in the mud.

I bet if you take the kids from the 80's and drop them into today, they would be as good as kids are today and the kids today would be as good if you put them back in the 80's.
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  #51  
Old 03-12-18, 08:17 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Psycho--- #1 difference is that Sebastian Coe ruined the 1980's and 1990's for all of the US of A. Seb Coe won the 1500 and 800 and his claim to fame alongside Runner's World ruined distance running in the USA. Fast food training became popular and no one was training like they are now. Runner's World popularized fast-food training methods and the 10 ways to run faster or get fitter.

I love distance running. I wish I grew up in the 2000's.
The #2 difference now is the onset of the female distance runner. The female has improved 1000% or more since 1980. It is ridiculous and awesome to watch the female part of the sport be so awesome. I remember watching the regional meet in the 1980's when in the 3200 a 11:35 would qualify for state. Now 11:15 would not place at our league meet. Indoors this year 11:00 would not even place. 9:59 just won the NBN Nationals. It is awesome.
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  #52  
Old 03-12-18, 09:09 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Psycho...lets remember that the state and regional schedules back then were all divisions ran at the same time so they had more heats between events.
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  #53  
Old 03-12-18, 11:47 PM
Run4Life Run4Life is online now
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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
Psycho...lets remember that the state and regional schedules back then were all divisions ran at the same time so they had more heats between events.
I have been coaching since 1978 and have never had a regional meet that held multiple divisions at the same time/location.
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  #54  
Old 03-13-18, 04:41 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
Psycho...lets remember that the state and regional schedules back then were all divisions ran at the same time so they had more heats between events.
Not in the NE and the state meets in the 80's certainly were not. In fact, the time schedule now is much better than what we ran at the Regional meet. We had no time schedule. My senior year they the D2 meet at Mansfield so fast that no one could come back in the 800 from the 1600. I did not get a cool down or warm up between events and was in the bullpen so fast it was unreal. They at least have a time schedule now.

I also never heard of fast food training or read runners world or any other such magazine.

Girls should be getting better. I think they were pretty darn good in the 80's too for how long it had been around. They didn't even compete at the state until around '75 and the 3200 wasn't competed until 84' or so. Might be the biggest sport in the state for girls participation and growing.
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  #55  
Old 03-13-18, 05:53 AM
Eye89 Eye89 is offline
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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
Psycho...lets remember that the state and regional schedules back then were all divisions ran at the same time so they had more heats between events.


Not in the late 80s at least. Meets I participated were organized as they are today . . . except AAA, AA, and A of course.


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  #56  
Old 03-13-18, 07:40 AM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is offline
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Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
The female has improved 1000% or more since 1980. It is ridiculous and awesome to watch the female part of the sport be so awesome. It is awesome.
I have been thinking the same. I remember coaching when if a girl was under 5:20 she was a factor at most levels and under 5:10 was a ringer. There have been many great and fast girls previously but today's depth is incredible in comparison.

I was looking at New Balance results and see that the 9:03 state 4 X 800 Hilliard Davidson team ran the 4 X Mile. They averaged under 5:10 on a 200 meter track and was not even the best from Ohio and were beat out for a state record. Great depth for the girls for teams to have 4 or more under 5:10.
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  #57  
Old 03-13-18, 08:08 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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What is fast food training? Is that what the guys do that participate in the Nathan's hot dog eating contests that are held on July 4th?
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  #58  
Old 03-13-18, 09:40 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by Eye89 View Post
Not in the late 80s at least. Meets I participated were organized as they are today . . . except AAA, AA, and A of course.


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No they werent. I ran at the state meet in 1991 and my events were preceeded by another division in that same event.
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  #59  
Old 03-13-18, 11:37 AM
LoveCrossCountry LoveCrossCountry is offline
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There were definitely some great Ohio runners in the 80s. Scott Fry, Bob Kennedy, Mark Croghan. The main difference really is the depth, and in the case of Croghan, times; he ran 4:12 and 9:20 in high school which are almost pedestrian today (not quite though). I was in high school in the early-mid 80s, and the mantra for most then was "less is more". We ran anywhere from 9-15 miles per week. We had rest days on Friday and Sunday. Just not anywhere near enough to run well, and that was not uncommon then...lots of dual meets that cut into training and "less is more" philosophy.

Scott Fry was quoted back then as saying something like, "It's easy to do well in high school, because most don't put in the work."

Well, today, a lot of runners put in the work. 60-70 MPW is typical for elite runners, and some of them do even more.

This year in indoor, there were 9 boys who ran under Crogan's HS PR of 9:20, and then there were at least a couple more who just didn't run a 3200 in indoor who could have. If we look at outdoor track last spring, 15 Ohio boys ran under 9:20.
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  #60  
Old 03-13-18, 11:54 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
What is fast food training? Is that what the guys do that participate in the Nathan's hot dog eating contests that are held on July 4th?
Fast food training was a direct results of Sebastian Coe's fact news of how he ran low mileage and turned into an Olympic Champion. In reality Seb Coe ran huge base miles and his father hid it.

The news of workouts and him only running 40-60 miles a week for a distance runners spread to the US and was picked up by Runner's World.

Runner's World then made millions by proceeding to pick up every article on how to train for a marathon in 5 easy steps. 7 ways to get fit. And other gimmicks that enabled Americans to try and take short cuts.

I call if fast food training because it is not what makes you great. It is easy and cheap to do by coaches. Read a magazine and have them do a workout out of a magazine or book without knowledge of the runner or the micro or marco system the runner has had the previous 12 months. Most if not all of these runners ran great in April in track or September in cross country and never proceeded to get better.

The bigger the aerobic base= the bigger the peak. The fast food training took away the aerobic base but was easy for coaches to coach. Blow the whistle and yell out times.
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