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  #91  
Old 08-12-17, 11:34 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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OK, so that begs the question, how many neo-Nazis do you believe are in America?
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  #92  
Old 08-12-17, 11:38 PM
Killer Joe Killer Joe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Trump's strongest support is among these white nationalists. These are the core of his base. His refusal to disavow literal Nazis is both alarming and horrifying.
Any proof of this? Or are you just trolling as usual...
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  #93  
Old 08-12-17, 11:44 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Trump's strongest support is among these white nationalists. These are the core of his base. His refusal to disavow literal Nazis is both alarming and horrifying.
What???? Just stop this silly rhetoric. First of all, yes, I'd guess he does have their support, but it's such a small, small, fraction of a percent that it's completely irrelevant. There are several anti-Trump groups that dwarf that small white supremacist numbers.

His base is Americans fed up with the status quo in DC who want real change in politics and lawmaking.
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  #94  
Old 08-13-17, 12:00 AM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is offline
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That's fine that they're a small percent, and I agree. The problem is his refusal to denounce them and call them what they are -- domestic terrorists.
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  #95  
Old 08-13-17, 12:19 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by warriorblue View Post
BLM, not a hate group.
Absolutely a hate group.
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  #96  
Old 08-13-17, 12:21 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
That's fine that they're a small percent, and I agree. The problem is his refusal to denounce them and call them what they are -- domestic terrorists.
I don't seem to remember you being this upset when Obama refused to call Muslim terrorists by name. I am not surprised of your hypocrisy....just pointing it out.
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  #97  
Old 08-13-17, 01:32 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Trump's strongest support is among these white nationalists. These are the core of his base. His refusal to disavow literal Nazis is both alarming and horrifying.
He denounced the violence from both sides...not sure what else you want.

Core of his base?

I'd love to know how many Nazis and KKK members you think there are running around...and if they represent such a large and powerful constituency how Obama got elecred..TWICE.
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  #98  
Old 08-13-17, 03:45 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
So BLM are on the same level of the KKK (who have killed a countless amount of people) and neo-nazis (who borrow their ideas from a man who is repsonsible for the death of millions)?
They're a notch below, but not much better.
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  #99  
Old 08-13-17, 03:48 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
President Trump made a POWERFUL STATEMENT? The dude is the first to talk about "radical Islamic terror" but refuses to address the white nationalists and call them out. These are literal Nazis marching with "dog heil!" gestures saying Heil Trump! He knows they are his base. Get out of here with that ****
Radical Islamic terror is a bigger global threat. It's sad 3 people died today, but how many were killed in the string of attacks in London earlier this Summer?
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  #100  
Old 08-13-17, 04:56 AM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Radical Islamic terror is a bigger global threat. It's sad 3 people died today, but how many were killed in the string of attacks in London earlier this Summer?
Anyone know how many people were killed in Chicago this weekend?
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  #101  
Old 08-13-17, 06:27 AM
fish82 fish82 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Trump's strongest support is among these white nationalists. These are the core of his base.

20-50,000 people (at most) out of 62 million is the “core of his base.”


You’ve said some pretty stupid sht over the years, but this is right up there.
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  #102  
Old 08-13-17, 07:13 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
Anyone know how many people were killed in Chicago this weekend?
Chicago is more worried about shielding illegal immigrants from the Feds than the violence on its streets.
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  #103  
Old 08-13-17, 07:25 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Trump's strongest support is among these white nationalists. These are the core of his base. His refusal to disavow literal Nazis is both alarming and horrifying.
nonsense.
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  #104  
Old 08-13-17, 07:25 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
20-50,000 people (at most) out of 62 million is the “core of his base.”


You’ve said some pretty stupid sht over the years, but this is right up there.
Thats being generous. It's two marginalized groups no where near the mainstream. Of course to hear the liberals tell it there are hordes of Neo Nazis and KKK roaming around.

Here's the dirty little secret....if antifa and others hadnt shown up nothing would've happened. They'd show up, do their little demonstration and go home. Instead the "counter protesters" show up, a riot ensues, and they want to play the victim.

That's not to defend or justify the racists, just an accurate accounting of the situation.
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  #105  
Old 08-13-17, 07:35 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
So BLM are on the same level of the KKK (who have killed a countless amount of people) and neo-nazis (who borrow their ideas from a man who is repsonsible for the death of millions)?
No BLM is worse.

The KKK is a tiny number of idiots that nobody listens to and they haven't killed anyone in decades,

Until any neo-Nazi actually does anything, they are fools in Halloween costumes.

BLM is responsible for people dying.
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  #106  
Old 08-13-17, 07:36 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Thats being generous. It's two marginalized groups no where near the mainstream. Of course to hear the liberals tell it there are hordes of Neo Nazis and KKK roaming around.

Here's the dirty little secret....if antifa and others hadnt shown up nothing would've happened. They'd show up, do their little demonstration and go home. Instead the "counter protesters" show up, a riot ensues, and they want to play the victim.

That's not to defend or justify the racists, just an accurate accounting of the situation.
Correct analysis. As usual, may people see the need to paint one side as bad guys and the other as good guys. Neo-nazis and KKK are despicable. Antifa is no better. They didn't come for ANY cause other than a fight.
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  #107  
Old 08-13-17, 08:10 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Huh? There are 2 sides. White Suoremacists and those who oppose them. This was domestic terrorism. Neutrality???

Kudos to republicans breaking from the White House on it.
You win the grand prize for oversimplification. The "counter protestors" were not simply opposing racism. They were in large part the professional thug protestors who have attacked peaceful conservative gatherings and have used violence to try to shut down the speeches of those they disagree with. In fact it is fair to blame them for the escalating violence that is marring America's political discourse.

BTW, it's views like TP's that will drive more people into the arms of the white nationalists or at least increase the number of folks who view them in a positive light. While I get the aversion to "whataboutery" it's equally true that to ignore the history of events leading up to what happened in Charlottesville is to engage in a special kind of ignorance.
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  #108  
Old 08-13-17, 08:13 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorblue View Post
BLM, not a hate group.
Then you are not paying attention to what they say and do.
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  #109  
Old 08-13-17, 08:28 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Absolutely true.

I would like to see the President issue a simple statement tomorrow.

"As I said yesterday, violence from or against any group is wrong. It should not and will not be tolerated. And to racists and anti-Semites who claim to support me, know this: I denounce your bigotry and reject your support."

I don't see anything wrong with Trump's initial statement. But the statements from GOP senators, representatives, and state politicians have been direct, and only make Trump’s look worse by comparison.
You just posted that this was a game the republicans can't win and you're right. Compare how the media is covering this violent political incident with how they covered previous left wing violence. I would advise Trump not to make the statement you suggest. He has already said the right thing and in a way that will influence all sides of the argument because he's not signalling out one side as worse than another.

But until I see the democrats denounce without reservation those left wing groups who in the past 20 years have committed more violence and displayed more intolerance than ANY group on the right, then all you're asking for is republican virtue signaling which doesn't accomplish anything beyond making those doing the signalling feel good about themselves.

Keep in mind that the key people Trump needs to influence aren't the core white supremacists, they are beyond any appeal to reason. Trump must speak in a way that reaches out to the next and much larger circle of folks who share some of their frustrations but are loath to go full supremacist. These are people who can be reasoned with and the first step is to show them that the government will take a neutral position on political violence from both the left & right and that this president finds BOTH sides to be behaving in an unacceptable manner. Demonizing one side when BOTH should be called out is a recipe for disaster and plays directly into the hands of the supremacists who want to appear to be persecuted.
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  #110  
Old 08-13-17, 08:31 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
That's fine that they're a small percent, and I agree. The problem is his refusal to denounce them and call them what they are -- domestic terrorists.
Get a grip. Being stupid and saying stupid stuff doesn't make anyone a terrorist.
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  #111  
Old 08-13-17, 08:38 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
Anyone know how many people were killed in Chicago this weekend?
And the % that were black on black. Obviously, the Nazi and KKK are reprehensible, but let's not pretend their membership is a material amount of ppl. You can call it Radical Christian terror, though none of this was done for the sake of religion. However, the Alt-Left will over blow this and make it seem like the KKK/Nazis are a real threat when they're not.
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  #112  
Old 08-13-17, 08:46 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
No BLM is worse.

The KKK is a tiny number of idiots that nobody listens to and they haven't killed anyone in decades,

Until any neo-Nazi actually does anything, they are fools in Halloween costumes.

BLM is responsible for people dying.
Exactly. Years ago the Neo-Nazi's and KKK would join forces and hold a rally in downtown Cincinnati at Fountain Square. I was down there one year and as I recall there were about 20 NN's & Klan guys surrounded by Cincinnati police who were in turn surrounded by a couple of hundred SILENT protesters. The Klan & NN's made their speeches while the protesters just glared at them without interrupting.

Bottom line is that the net effect of all this was to make the Klan & NN's look small & impotent. It was like we were watching a bad Halloween skit. The rally fizzled out after a while when nothing happened and everyone went home. This is the ONLY way to deal effectively with these people. Calling them out by name like Ted Cruz did is the WRONG way to go about it. These guys would die for the free publicity & "credibility" that a sitting Senator condemning them by name confers. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
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  #113  
Old 08-13-17, 08:49 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
Anyone know how many people were killed in Chicago this weekend?
Here you go:

http://heyjackass.com/

Between 8/6 - 8/12 you had 9 people killed by gunshot in Chicago with another 41 folks wounded.
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  #114  
Old 08-13-17, 08:55 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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FBI begs to differ. Very significant domestic terror group, organized, thousands of members, many acts if violence and murder. This was domestic terrorism. So were the mosque bombings. There has been a sharp rise in anti-Semite, black, and muslim hate crimes the past several months. Need to crack down on it. Doesn't take away from the radical Islamic terror threat, illegal Mexicans, or crime in general.
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  #115  
Old 08-13-17, 08:58 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Sessions issues the best statement of the evening imo.
Agreed. What most (I think) would expect from the POTUS whether Pub or Dem.

He's really pushing his luck aint he? I'd almost consider that a brave statement.
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  #116  
Old 08-13-17, 09:14 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
FBI begs to differ. Very significant domestic terror group, organized, thousands of members, many acts if violence and murder. This was domestic terrorism. So were the mosque bombings. There has been a sharp rise in anti-Semite, black, and muslim hate crimes the past several months. Need to crack down on it. Doesn't take away from the radical Islamic terror threat, illegal Mexicans, or crime in general.
Your hate crime data is wrong. There has been a well documented rise in FAKE hate crimes as disturbed individuals desperately try to create a self-fulfilling prophesy that Trump's election would lead to increased "isms". There was a whole thread with links to these false crime reports.

And to suggest that the modern American KKK & Neo-Nazi's are domestic terror groups that are "organized", "number in the thousands" and commit "many acts of violence & murder" is a figment of your overactive imagination.
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  #117  
Old 08-13-17, 09:17 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Agreed. What most (I think) would expect from the POTUS whether Pub or Dem.

He's really pushing his luck aint he? I'd almost consider that a brave statement.
You mean like Obama and Eric Holder's condemnation of the Black Panther thugs who blocked access to voting sites based on the race of the person who wanted to vote? You mean that kind of "brave" response.
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  #118  
Old 08-13-17, 10:24 AM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
And the % that were black on black. Obviously, the Nazi and KKK are reprehensible, but let's not pretend their membership is a material amount of ppl. You can call it Radical Christian terror, though none of this was done for the sake of religion. However, the Alt-Left will over blow this and make it seem like the KKK/Nazis are a real threat when they're not.
Yep, all the while then that the self inflicted problems in the black community go unaddressed.
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  #119  
Old 08-13-17, 10:26 AM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
20-50,000 people (at most) out of 62 million is the “core of his base.”


You’ve said some pretty stupid sht over the years, but this is right up there.
Like most liberal thought, they wish it to be true.
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  #120  
Old 08-13-17, 10:27 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I fail to see how it's inappropriate to condemn all parties involved here. You have various racist groups (alt-right, white supremacists, neo-Nazis) on one side, and antifa, an antifascist organization that ironically behaves like fascists, on the other side. Antifa's only redeeming quality here is that they aren't the alt-right group.

Odds are the carnage of yesterday doesn't occur if antifa doesn't go to Charlottesville. It would have been a mostly peaceful protest of racists who would have shown themselves to the country to be the azzhats they are. Both deserve to be condemned, and shouldn't be tolerated.
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