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  #31  
Old 08-08-17, 08:28 PM
fish82 fish82 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
This is based on methane being a more potent greenhouse gas. The theory however does not work.
Itís 30 times more potent. Most estimates place its contribution at about 30% of the total. Agriculture alone constitutes about 20%.
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  #32  
Old 08-08-17, 08:42 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Lotr gonna run in here with a 3 page discertation in 3....2....1...
Keep your discerts to yourself.
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  #33  
Old 08-08-17, 08:44 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by BGFalcons82 View Post
There's a school of thought that says cows are contributing more greenhouse pollutants than mankind. Are you a vegetarian?
Bison farts, dude. Bison farts.
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  #34  
Old 08-08-17, 08:45 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
This I know for sure. The same people that believe in anthropogenic global warming believe that Marxism makes people's lives better, Trump colluded with the Russians to win his election, and Caitlyn Jenner is a woman.
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  #35  
Old 08-08-17, 08:46 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
More greedy money grubbing scientists.
Make up a good story, get another grant
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  #36  
Old 08-08-17, 09:02 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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If there was even the slightest chance we were causing this, I can't understand not wanting to try to improve and reverse the situation. Green technologies seem like a win/win in nearly every direction other than for the outdated coal and oil industries. Time to move forward and discover our true energy potential
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  #37  
Old 08-08-17, 09:11 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish82 View Post
Itís 30 times more potent. Most estimates place its contribution at about 30% of the total. Agriculture alone constitutes about 20%.
Methane is shorter lived in the atmosphere than CO2, that's the main reason it isn't the top contributor.
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  #38  
Old 08-08-17, 09:37 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
If there was even the slightest chance we were causing this, I can't understand not wanting to try to improve and reverse the situation. Green technologies seem like a win/win in nearly every direction other than for the outdated coal and oil industries. Time to move forward and discover our true energy potential
There are studies showing the trend is reversing, there are studies showing it is accelerating, there are studies that show it ended........ no study is able to say how much of climate change is natural and how much is being influenced by man......

The real question that no one answers is what makes us think we can determine what temperature the Earth is "supposed" to be, it's been hotter, colder, more CO2, less CO2, ...... throughout planetary history. The time that it has spent at "this" temperature is a blip in the record. Even IF man is responsible at this time, we won't be forever and we weren't in the past - the planet has natural cycles that exceed what even the dreamers want to accomplish. Do we try to stop a fully "natural" change?

We should be good stewards of the planet, we should use clean/better energy when it makes sense. Green technologies can't solve all of our energy needs and to rush them into production is wasteful and potentially could kill millions by taking away the productivity necessary for food creation and distribution. We should do what we can as we can, we are better than we were 100 years ago and we'll be better 100 years from now.
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  #39  
Old 08-09-17, 07:08 AM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is online now
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Make up a good story, get another grant
Buffalo fart too man. Big contributor.
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  #40  
Old 08-09-17, 07:11 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
If there was even the slightest chance we were causing this, I can't understand not wanting to try to improve and reverse the situation.
The fortune in money, time, and effort spent to stop the sky from falling could instead be spent on something that would actually be beneficial. That's one reason.
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  #41  
Old 08-09-17, 08:06 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
If there was even the slightest chance we were causing this, I can't understand not wanting to try to improve and reverse the situation. Green technologies seem like a win/win in nearly every direction other than for the outdated coal and oil industries. Time to move forward and discover our true energy potential
Assuming finite financial resources MB I would prefer we focus on building a system designed to detect & deflect away from the earth any space rocks heading our way. While the probability is low that we'll get smacked by a big rock the results of such a collision would be disastrous up to and including extinction of the human race. And unlike the THEORY of human caused catastrophic climate change (as opposed to natural climate change which has been well established to always be occurring) we know that there is a 100% chance the earth will at some time in the future get flattened by a big space rock.
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  #42  
Old 08-09-17, 10:10 AM
justpete justpete is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Green technologies seem like a win/win in nearly every direction other than for the outdated coal and oil industries.
Unfortunately, not all green technologies are perfect in all aspects. Solar batteries might endanger birds and insects in the area, same about windmills. there is a nice book about it, Whirligig by Magnus Macintyre. In theory they all sound great, though putting them into practice implies some problems of all sorts. And that's too sad
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  #43  
Old 08-09-17, 10:20 AM
IcyCoolDevil IcyCoolDevil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
It's humans causing the warming. Give it up already. Jesus.
You have some of your words mixed up. It is Jesus causing the warming. And it will happen regardless of what you think you can do about it.

Michael, all alternatives are not win-win. Solar comes at a much higher cost, electric power uses more resources and is more of a danger to the earth and wind is too inefficient to be effective on a large scale.

Neo, we are careening toward apocalyptic times and we can only save ourselves (see line 1).

And SWM, while I agree with your points, I have a small correction for you. It was Guam that the clown from Georgia was afraid would tip over.
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  #44  
Old 08-09-17, 10:38 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Assuming finite financial resources MB I would prefer we focus on building a system designed to detect & deflect away from the earth any space rocks heading our way. While the probability is low that we'll get smacked by a big rock the results of such a collision would be disastrous up to and including extinction of the human race. And unlike the THEORY of human caused catastrophic climate change (as opposed to natural climate change which has been well established to always be occurring) we know that there is a 100% chance the earth will at some time in the future get flattened by a big space rock.
Wait, you would actually prefer a planetary shield against giant asteroids, than clean, renewable energy? Lol. That's a joke right?

Though I do consider it progress, your admission that some human interventions are warranted - even for natural events.
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  #45  
Old 08-09-17, 11:44 AM
nutsnbolts nutsnbolts is offline
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Name ONE energy source that doesn't require using energy to make equipment to collect, store, or use that energy. I'll be waiting.

If you want to try to convince me that current climate change is man-made it's simple. Just declare all statements regarding pre-human global cooling and warming are false.
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  #46  
Old 08-09-17, 12:40 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Would you agree large volcanic eruptions, asteroid collisions, shifting land mass/plate tectonics, plant and animal evolution, subtle orbital changes, and in solar energy, all had varying effects on climate, over the course of billions of years?
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  #47  
Old 08-09-17, 12:50 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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The question is simple: To what degree is human activity influencing climate change? And what will the specific results be?

Climatologists refuse to answer these questions with any degree of specificity(likely because their predictions from earlier in the decade are now fodder for mockery) and instead respond with statements like "it's settled, we all agree."

When we can get some amount of specificity and accuracy in these predictions, then we can go about reshaping our economy based on the advice of a small group of "climate experts." Until then, no thanks. I'd say that's more than fair.
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  #48  
Old 08-09-17, 01:08 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
The fortune in money, time, and effort spent to stop the sky from falling could instead be spent on something that would actually be beneficial. That's one reason.
I have a hard time thinking of anything more potentially beneficial than total energy abundance via improvements in solar, nuclear, and battery technologies
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  #49  
Old 08-09-17, 01:10 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Such a lame cop out. How much specificity Neo? Be "specific". Like how long a heavy smoker will live, or how much weight you'll gain eating cake for breakfast every morning, to the year and to the pound?

Btw we ARE already reshaping the economy, here and globally. Because it makes sense in so many other ways too. What no thanks, lol.
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  #50  
Old 08-09-17, 01:18 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
The question is simple: To what degree is human activity influencing climate change? And what will the specific results be?

Climatologists refuse to answer these questions with any degree of specificity(likely because their predictions from earlier in the decade are now fodder for mockery) and instead respond with statements like "it's settled, we all agree."

When we can get some amount of specificity and accuracy in these predictions, then we can go about reshaping our economy based on the advice of a small group of "climate experts." Until then, no thanks. I'd say that's more than fair.
Because it's a nonsense question only someone who knows nothing about climate science would think means anything.
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  #51  
Old 08-09-17, 01:36 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Such a lame cop out. How much specificity Neo? Be "specific". Like how long a heavy smoker will live
We have accurate figures in the aggregate for the increased risk of cancer and mortality from smoking. What a terrible example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Because it's a nonsense question only someone who knows nothing about climate science would think means anything.
It's nonsense to want scientists to answer "To what degree is human activity influencing climate change?" prior to taking their prescription of reshaping our economy to prevent the apocalypse?
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  #52  
Old 08-09-17, 01:43 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
I have a hard time thinking of anything more potentially beneficial than total energy abundance via improvements in solar, nuclear, and battery technologies
End famine? Just a thought.

Besides, whatever little good we do with solar batteries will be undone by coal and oil in India and China.
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  #53  
Old 08-09-17, 01:46 PM
zeeman zeeman is online now
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Man it feels like fall today! Thanks global warming!
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  #54  
Old 08-09-17, 01:50 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
We have accurate figures in the aggregate for the increased risk of cancer and mortality from smoking. What a terrible example



It's nonsense to want scientists to answer "To what degree is human activity influencing climate change?" prior to taking their prescription of reshaping our economy to prevent the apocalypse?
It is nonsense, especially when you're throwing in absurdities and strawmaning.
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  #55  
Old 08-09-17, 01:53 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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One of my favorite quotes...

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
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  #56  
Old 08-09-17, 02:16 PM
zeeman zeeman is online now
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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
One of my favorite quotes...

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Wow, that's deep
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  #57  
Old 08-09-17, 02:18 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
Wow, that's deep

Actually it's the opposite of deep. Pretty basic, really.
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  #58  
Old 08-09-17, 02:38 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
It is nonsense, especially when you're throwing in absurdities and strawmaning.
So to summarize, you can't answer to what degree human activity is influencing climate change?
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  #59  
Old 08-09-17, 03:08 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
So to summarize, you can't answer to what degree human activity is influencing climate change?
It's like asking how long a chain smoker has left to live. We know the probability of cancer in smokers, we know how long the subject has been smoking, we can even calculate biological markers that make someone more susceptible to cancer than others.

But, this is the only Earth we know. There isn't a wide array of other worlds similarly situated to run data collection on to see what our 'odds' are of turning into Venus. We just know that solar radiation collects in our atmosphere like a greenhouse. It's what has made life possible all these eons. The problem is something outside the scope of the natural ebb and flow of Earth's average temperature jars it further than WE can survive.

It's funny that just up thread someone talks about how this is all 'natural', and that we shouldn't worry.

Yet humans weren't even recognizable the last time the Earth went through a true ice age, and weren't exactly thriving during the last real heat wave.

The problem is that CURRENT trend is far surpassing even the most expected upward trajectory of a warming trend. That is the problem. We can factor in things like massive geological events (panama cutting off ocean currents, major ice flows, volcanoes, etc), but we still shouldn't be where we're at now if we're just on the ebb and flow of Earth's natural CO2 cycle that we know corresponds to Earths' greenhouse effect, which effects temperature.

Ice cores from Antarctica, which go back much further then any weather station's capabilities, show CO2 levels through history, and today's levels just aren't sustainable.

It's amazing at that one point in human history, not long ago, scientists discovered a major environmental problem, diagnosed its cause, and set about world-wide change to address it. And today we barely even TALK about it because it's been such a sweeping and dramatic positive effect on the problem and we just happily go about our days barely even recognizing what we did.

Can you guess what that was?
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  #60  
Old 08-09-17, 03:16 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
So to summarize, you can't answer to what degree human activity is influencing climate change?
To summarize, it's a nonsense question posed by people who don't know what they're talking about.
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