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  #151  
Old 08-02-17, 11:30 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
He will care. At some point in ones career, it's not about money or being the man, it's about winning. Kyrie can't even win with a top 5 team in the NBA without LeBron on the floor.
LOL. Without LeBron on the floor this is not a top 5 team in the NBA.
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  #152  
Old 08-02-17, 11:33 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
For starters, if he's "the guy" Kyrie needs somebody a lot better than Tristan Thompson for both pick and roll and rim protection, IMO. The second or third best guy on a Kyrie team is ideally probably somebody with a 7'3-7'5 wingspan. DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert mold.

IMO, if the Cavs theoretically held on to Kyrie and lost LeBron, they'd need to badly overhaul their roster at the PF and C positions to "mesh" with Kyrie's strengths and weaknesses.
I agree with the "C" position part of it. But the PF is a perfect mesh. KLove and Kyrie are perfect to pick & roll, pick & pop together.

Of course I'd rather keep LBJ. But in your scenario he isn't there, and I think Kyrie/KLove is a great offensive pairing. But they better have a Gobert at C on defense because those two offensive guys can't play D.
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  #153  
Old 08-02-17, 11:43 AM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Madge
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  #154  
Old 08-02-17, 12:42 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
LOL. Without LeBron on the floor this is not a top 5 team in the NBA.
Without a doubt. Probably would win 40-45 games and finish somewhere between 4th-8th in the East without LeBron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
I agree with the "C" position part of it. But the PF is a perfect mesh. KLove and Kyrie are perfect to pick & roll, pick & pop together.

Of course I'd rather keep LBJ. But in your scenario he isn't there, and I think Kyrie/KLove is a great offensive pairing. But they better have a Gobert at C on defense because those two offensive guys can't play D.
I don't know, it feels like Love's skillset probably doesn't get utilized as well as his Minnesota days sharing the stage with an isolation heavy player like Irving. Defensively those two guys create a need to have a great defensive center, and probably also a high-end wing defender to balance out their deficits on that end of the floor.
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  #155  
Old 08-02-17, 01:20 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Cavs should just trade everyone
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  #156  
Old 08-03-17, 06:28 AM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
LOL. Without LeBron on the floor this is not a top 5 team in the NBA.
But they are better than the Knicks. Or Suns. The likely places that Kyrie will end up. Thank you for making my point. Without LeBron, Kyrie is not ready to lead any team. He might score 30 a game, but he will not lead any team to a championship. His recent actions prove he's no leader. And before you put words in my mouth, I'm not talking about asking for a trade...that is certainly his right. But not wanting to play with the best player on the planet and likely go to a 4th straight NBA Finals because you want to be "the man" is flawed.
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  #157  
Old 08-03-17, 06:32 AM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is online now
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Madge
Eastside Troll, do you have anything intelligent to add?
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  #158  
Old 08-03-17, 07:20 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
But they are better than the Knicks. Or Suns. The likely places that Kyrie will end up. Thank you for making my point. Without LeBron, Kyrie is not ready to lead any team. He might score 30 a game, but he will not lead any team to a championship. His recent actions prove he's no leader. And before you put words in my mouth, I'm not talking about asking for a trade...that is certainly his right. But not wanting to play with the best player on the planet and likely go to a 4th straight NBA Finals because you want to be "the man" is flawed.
You said the Cavs, without LeBron are a top 5 team. They aren't. They are a team that is constructed and gameplanned around LeBron, not Kyrie. That doesn't really prove your point.
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  #159  
Old 08-03-17, 09:37 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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This seems to be at a weird point where talks are supposedly "heating up" with a few teams, but his value is plummetting because he supposedly doesn't want to commit long-term to any team that trades for him.

I'm optimistic that the current smoke around the Suns means that "untradable" Josh Jackson is going to be in a deal shortly after his contract is tradable. If they had any other trade framework on the table they either would have had a deal by now, or the Suns would be out of the picture for the time being IMO.
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  #160  
Old 08-03-17, 12:13 PM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is online now
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
You said the Cavs, without LeBron are a top 5 team. They aren't. They are a team that is constructed and gameplanned around LeBron, not Kyrie. That doesn't really prove your point.
Ok fair enough. But the Cavs without LeBron are still better than several teams that Kyrie could end up on. Fact is he has done nothing prior to LeBron coming back or without LeBron in the lineup that suggests he can lead a team to even a winning record, let alone the playoffs. Is Kyrie that egotistical and short sighted that he, or the people in his camp, don't realize that? He's going to lose money, lose respect, and not win another championship...just to say it's "his" team? I'm honestly shocked as this seems totally out of character for him.
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  #161  
Old 08-03-17, 12:34 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
Ok fair enough. But the Cavs without LeBron are still better than several teams that Kyrie could end up on. Fact is he has done nothing prior to LeBron coming back or without LeBron in the lineup that suggests he can lead a team to even a winning record, let alone the playoffs. Is Kyrie that egotistical and short sighted that he, or the people in his camp, don't realize that? He's going to lose money, lose respect, and not win another championship...just to say it's "his" team? I'm honestly shocked as this seems totally out of character for him.
Again, the team is constructed around LeBron. They eat, breathe, live, practice, and prep around LeBron. So in those 4-5 games a year when he sits, yeah things fall apart. Because it's not something they practice or prepare for. Furthermore, LeBron only sits 4-5 games a year. FWIW, in 2013-14, Miami went 2-3 without LeBron. How is that enough of a sample for you to say " Fact is he has done nothing.....without LeBron in the lineup that suggests he can lead a team to even a winning record?"

I'm not sure how he is going to lose money or respect (from his peers at least). It remains to be seen if he will win a championship or not. Unlikely, but remains to be seen.
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  #162  
Old 08-03-17, 12:36 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Madge seems to be entirely discounting the idea that he may not care about winning that much now that he has a title.

If you believe rumors, he's tired of the LeBron show and perceived preferential treatment. The nail in the coffin seems to be speculation that LeBron pushed for a trade for Chris Paul AFTER the Cavs won the title last year. I'd probably feel disrespected and want to leave if I was Kyrie.
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  #163  
Old 08-03-17, 12:41 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I don't see the Kyrie brand holding it's current value past a couple seasons if he ends up fronting a late lottery team, or a 1st or 2nd round exit team like Wall's Wizards or Lillard's Blazers. Big picture this will cost him brand value, endorsement money and fame IMO. Shoe and jersey sales would indicate he's one of the 4-5 best players in the world. It will quickly become apparent he's not if he's out on his own.
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  #164  
Old 08-03-17, 12:46 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
Madge seems to be entirely discounting the idea that he may not care about winning that much now that he has a title.

If you believe rumors, he's tired of the LeBron show and perceived preferential treatment. The nail in the coffin seems to be speculation that LeBron pushed for a trade for Chris Paul AFTER the Cavs won the title last year. I'd probably feel disrespected and want to leave if I was Kyrie.
Yup. If Kyrie were 30 years old and on the decline? This would be very odd. But he's 25 and already has a ring and one of the biggest shots in NBA Finals history. There's plenty of time for him to go ring chase. There's not much more time for him to be The Man.
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  #165  
Old 08-03-17, 02:54 PM
J.R. Swish J.R. Swish is offline
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Kyrie is a perfect example of all that is great and awful about the NBA of today. He is a top 5 offensive talent in the league but is a horrible defender sometimes showing no effort on that end of the floor. Overall, he is probably a top 25 player in the league but thinks he is top 10. He is a point guard who can go a whole game without an assist, but when he chooses to he can get 10 in a game. He is a volume shooter who can score 20 in a quarter and win a game. Or he can pound the ball for 20 seconds a possession and force bad shots and lose a game. He reminds me of a guard version of Melo....both were at their best playing for team USA where they were forced to give effort on D and play unselfish basketball on offense. This will be very interesting to see where he ends up and then how his career continues. If he goes to a Phoenix or Denver now and is "the man" for next two years on average or below average teams then what does he choose in summer of 2019 when he is a free agent??? Does he gravitate back to being one of the stars on a team with title ability or does he prefer to score 30 on a bad team??? I think he is an immature 25 year old who overvalues his ability and he may look at things differently in 2 years.
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  #166  
Old 08-03-17, 03:28 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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I agree JR ... well said
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  #167  
Old 08-04-17, 04:19 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I agree JR ... well said
yup

And I'll add that I would find it totally believable if I was told that Kyrie wants out of Cleveland because he does not want to be "forced to give effort on D and play unselfish basketball on offense". I think him rejecting that pressure and saying 'F_ you' is as good an explanation as any for his lackluster playoff performance overall this year.

Maybe he just wants to be an 82 game exhibition basketball star ?
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  #168  
Old 08-04-17, 06:01 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Sounds like he just tired of Lebron and Cleveland fans.
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  #169  
Old 08-04-17, 08:56 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
yup

And I'll add that I would find it totally believable if I was told that Kyrie wants out of Cleveland because he does not want to be "forced to give effort on D and play unselfish basketball on offense". I think him rejecting that pressure and saying 'F_ you' is as good an explanation as any for his lackluster playoff performance overall this year.

Maybe he just wants to be an 82 game exhibition basketball star ?
Yeah I'm sure that's it.

Here are his playoff numbers:
25.9 PPG
46.8 FG%
37.3 3P%
90.5 FT%
5.3 APG

And his numbers in the Finals:
29.4 PPG
47.2 FG%
41.9 3P%
90.0 FT%
4.4 APG
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  #170  
Old 08-05-17, 01:00 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Nothing says passive aggressively being in the tank like averaging 29ppg on 47/42/90 shooting splits.
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  #171  
Old 08-05-17, 02:45 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I was referring to his lack of any defensive effort this year.
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  #172  
Old 08-05-17, 08:48 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I was referring to his lack of any defensive effort this year.
I agree with his defensive performance. He did a better job the year prior IMO
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  #173  
Old 08-10-17, 09:35 AM
Levi Levi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
LOL. Without LeBron on the floor this is not a top 5 team in the NBA.
Not sure they are top 10
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  #174  
Old 08-16-17, 10:25 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Interesting rumbles out there that Kyrie would sign an extension with the Spurs, if dealt to San Antonio. That's an awfully big blow to the narrative that he's all about Kyrie and being the "face" of a franchise, and legitimizes the narrative that the Cavs are incredibly dysfunctional and working with LeBron is a huge pain in the azz. Probably irrelevant, as the Spurs won't part with anything the Cavs would value in a trade.

Porzingis seems to be emerging as one of the main, if not the main, target in an Irving trade for the Cavs. A big sticking point so far appears to be taking on the remainder of renowned Cleveland hater Joakim Noah's contract, although it could be hilarious seeing him get stuck with the Cavs for 2-3 years.
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  #175  
Old 08-16-17, 11:31 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Would be poetic justice if Noah was relegated to living in Cleveland and sitting the bench every night
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  #176  
Old 08-16-17, 01:35 PM
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Would be poetic justice if Noah was relegated to living in Cleveland and sitting the bench every night
... and getting booed by his home crowd every night!
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  #177  
Old 08-16-17, 06:53 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Interesting Fear the Sword piece today on trade offers to this point that mentioned attendance woes of a few of the supposedly Kyrie suitors. Nuggets were dead last in attendance last year, the Wolves were 2nd to last, and the Suns were 19th. I'd have to believe he'd sell tickets and merchandise like crazy with his current popularity for at least the first year, even if the team was middling. Minnesota would jump towards the top in attendance if they could pair Kyrie with KAT and Jimmy Butler.

If the team assumes it will be rebuilding starting next year, I'm thinking the Knicks will be the destination unless the Wolves are willing to trade Wiggins. New York seems like a franchise that will be willing to roll the dice on resigning Irving to make a splash. Porzingis makes more sense as a building block than any of the guys from the other rumored offers I've seen, even if it means having to take Noah's miserable contract for a few years.
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  #178  
Old 08-17-17, 10:26 AM
J.R. Swish J.R. Swish is offline
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Yesterday word that Knicks getting tired of Houston not being more aggressive in the Melo sweepstakes. Possible 3 team deal with Cavs and Nuggets where Cavs would get Melo and young point guard Murray from Nuggets. Knicks would get some assets from Nuggets and picks involved too. Kyrie to Nuggets. Cavs would probably have to give Tristan and Shump/Frye to Knciks to make it work.
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  #179  
Old 08-19-17, 12:51 PM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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BIG kiss and makeup is coming soon,a no brainer on the deal he is pissed off about...BAM!
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  #180  
Old 08-20-17, 07:30 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
Interesting rumbles out there that Kyrie would sign an extension with the Spurs, if dealt to San Antonio. That's an awfully big blow to the narrative that he's all about Kyrie and being the "face" of a franchise, and legitimizes the narrative that the Cavs are incredibly dysfunctional and working with LeBron is a huge pain in the azz. Probably irrelevant, as the Spurs won't part with anything the Cavs would value in a trade.

Porzingis seems to be emerging as one of the main, if not the main, target in an Irving trade for the Cavs. A big sticking point so far appears to be taking on the remainder of renowned Cleveland hater Joakim Noah's contract, although it could be hilarious seeing him get stuck with the Cavs for 2-3 years.
This^ is a stupid hater post. This adds to the narrative that you are a dysfunctional poster. The Cavs are a team that is built around LeBron, and he refuses to commit. I'd hate that uncertainty, too, if I was Irving.

Anyone with a similar game to Kyrie's should jump at the opportunity to replace Tony Parker in Pop's scheme with that line-up. If Kyrie was a member of the Warriors today he'd be smart to jump at that and leave GS for SA.
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