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  #31  
Old 04-22-17, 02:11 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Was the admin in denial about this? Was the assumption that every westside Johnny would still come to Elder like they did back in the day when everyone that went to the school lived in the neighborhood (Price Hill, Covedale, Delhi, Dent).

They had to know that the migration further west for most younger families had to have an impact on enrollment eventually, and that they'd have to work harder to get some of those kids. They've had to realize that the athletes competing against Elder haven't been like the athletes they saw in the early 2000's. It's obvious the level of talent has drastically increased based on the aggressive marketing and recruiting these others schools have done. Add to that the changing nature of the competitiveness of high school sports, the rising cost of tuition, and how parents are most definitely looking at other options, especially when they are offered more money to go there. Westside Johnny going to Elder isn't a slam dunk anymore. They have to start to admit that....it can't be the same Elder...it has to evolve.

This decline has been noticeable and it's had momentum for at least 5 years (arguably more). I've said in the past that the volleyball and wrestling cultures seem to be much more open, diverse, and accepting of many kids that could help them improve as a program. I think that helps create a more successful and productive environment for winning. They seem to be doing things differently than the Big 3, before they get to Elder, and when they get to Elder, but I'm guessing the Big 3 think "no one cares about those sports", but frankly they are the only programs providing positive marketing and recruiting stories. There's nothing the Big 3 are doing to attract kids to play at Elder. In fact, a lot of the negative perceptions around how they operate are having the opposite affect. There seems to be a lot of ill will towards basketball and baseball by the lack of transparency, politics, old school mentality, and by the way they cut a lot of kids out of the picture way too early in their late grade school careers. They bank on the best players as 7th graders and basically cut all other options out of the process.

And I don't know what to say about the perception of coaches not doing everything they can to help ALL KIDS capable of playing in college to get college notice. For all of the expectations on Elder kids to play the "Elder way" and give their hearts and souls to the program and their teammates, they deserve the same from the coaches in this regard. If this is true, this may be the biggest disappointment of all.

There is also an obvious decline in passion for the school from the students. It's not the Elder of old...and as someone else pointed out above, it requires drastic changes in thought and ideas to get there. The status quo WILL turn this institution into Roger Bacon eventually, especially with it sitting in an area of the city where NO ONE is looking to move to.
I think you're 1st paragraph is true. And for how badly the Admin has f-d up in the past, let's remember, they didn't put Elder in massive debt. If you're going to bash them for their failures, you have to give them credit for their successes.
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  #32  
Old 04-22-17, 02:14 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by Visitation_Football View Post
I think the answer is simple. The entire admin has been asleep at the wheel for a long time. Their marketing is horrible compared to their competition. You could see it coming that at some point the bottom was going to fall out enrollment wise and now it's happening with next years incoming class.
I was told they forecast incoming enrollment based on the # of boys in feeders. They knew this year's class would be small, but they didn't do anything to hedge that. That's on Ruffing and the Marketing Dept. I think they're too complacent in thinking the next class ('22) will level out this year's failure. And it might, but why wouldn't you push to increase enrollment instead of just letting it avg out?
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  #33  
Old 04-22-17, 03:19 PM
ogealbhain ogealbhain is offline
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Originally Posted by Visitation_Football View Post
I think the answer is simple. The entire admin has been asleep at the wheel for a long time. Their marketing is horrible compared to their competition. You could see it coming that at some point the bottom was going to fall out enrollment wise and now it's happening with next years incoming class.
Not trying to be a smarta**, but what is the simple answer?
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  #34  
Old 04-22-17, 03:36 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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I think he's saying the answer as to how it got to this point is simple...the Admin being asleep at the wheel.

I think we'd all admit that getting back to where we were is far from simple at this point. CHANGE at a place still using old principles, with people all trained with very similar though process, is very hard to overcome without drastic pivots.

They need some VISION. Who that comes from I don't know, but perhaps they need some outside help (consulting). But are they willing to admit to needing it?
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  #35  
Old 04-22-17, 03:37 PM
ogealbhain ogealbhain is offline
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
I think he's saying the answer as to how it got to this point is simple...the Admin being asleep at the wheel.

I think we'd all admit that getting back to where we were is far from simple at this point.
That makes sense, thanks.
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  #36  
Old 04-22-17, 03:42 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
I was told they forecast incoming enrollment based on the # of boys in feeders. They knew this year's class would be small, but they didn't do anything to hedge that. That's on Ruffing and the Marketing Dept. I think they're too complacent in thinking the next class ('22) will level out this year's failure. And it might, but why wouldn't you push to increase enrollment instead of just letting it avg out?
Agreed...my guess is it's very easy for them to know years in advance what the feeder school male enrollment looks like. Budgeting and strategy should be set based on these numbers. If they know they will have an extra small class, budget for additional outreach and marketing. Just sitting back and accepting it certainly isn't ALTIORA.
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  #37  
Old 04-22-17, 04:18 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Agreed...my guess is it's very easy for them to know years in advance what the feeder school male enrollment looks like. Budgeting and strategy should be set based on these numbers. If they know they will have an extra small class, budget for additional outreach and marketing. Just sitting back and accepting it certainly isn't ALTIORA.
I was extremely angry when that was the response I received (I started a thread on here about it). I don't think the school is in any immediate danger, but that kind of attitude is unacceptable. You've always got to push to grow.
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  #38  
Old 04-22-17, 09:12 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Even w/ all the justified complaints on here, we knew this particular athletic season would be worth forgetting. If we're being honest, we all knew football and bball would circle around .500 bc they just didn't have the talent. And that's ok, for one season. The problem is this can't continue moving forward. I think football will bounce back and have a good season, but bball's and baseball's futures aren't "bleak", but I'm not exactly optimistic either.

Still, I'm tired of complaints on here and via PMs. Grow a sack and make your voices heard. Make the Admin accountable, being loud on here and silent and quiet in real life put us in the position we're in now.
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  #39  
Old 04-22-17, 09:21 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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I'm guessing there are alot of people afraid to get on the "sh*t list" with potential repercussions for their kid, and frankly, can you blame them?
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  #40  
Old 04-23-17, 06:38 AM
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EagleFan EagleFan is offline
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Elder has a few more baseball seasons to extend a remarkable record and win a title in 8th consecutive decade. Are they close enough that they can get it done?
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  #41  
Old 04-23-17, 10:45 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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Elder has a few more baseball seasons to extend a remarkable record and win a title in 8th consecutive decade. Are they close enough that they can get it done?
IMO, the odds don't look good. They've had decent enough talent but finished below .500, which is inexcusable.
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  #42  
Old 04-23-17, 10:46 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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I'm guessing there are alot of people afraid to get on the "sh*t list" with potential repercussions for their kid, and frankly, can you blame them?
Yes, bc they're cowards.
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  #43  
Old 04-23-17, 11:46 AM
IKS IKS is offline
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Yes, bc they're cowards.
It is a statement like this that makes you lose all credibility. I guarantee you, that if you are ever fortunate enough to have a child, you will feel differently.
If you really want to influence people, think about your audience and how to persuade them, not alienate them. I'm sure that has been reinforced by your boss in the workplace.
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  #44  
Old 04-23-17, 12:33 PM
Descartes Descartes is offline
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It is a statement like this that makes you lose all credibility. I guarantee you, that if you are ever fortunate enough to have a child, you will feel differently.
If you really want to influence people, think about your audience and how to persuade them, not alienate them. I'm sure that has been reinforced by your boss in the workplace.
There's a difference b/w whining on here and meeting face to face to have a civil discussion. There's clearly a lot of unhappy ppl on here, but there's no way anything gets resolved w/o direct contact. All of this pvssified back biting makes me sick. Act like men.
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