Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Wrestling

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-02-18, 10:37 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-10
Posts: 4,394
bdhof is on a distinguished road
GOAT Ohio HS Wrestler

Someone suggested that we have a poll to declare the Ohio GOAT HS wrestler. Once we get some names thrown out, I'll start a poll on this thread with the top 10. Bob Preuss has his short list (10) as Alan Fried, Dustin Schlatter, Tom Milkovich, Luke Fickell, David Taylor, Stieber, Tommy Rowlands, Greg Wojo, Chris Philips, Harry Lester. My short list (6) is WoJo, Kemp, Fried, Dustin Schlatter, Stieber and Taylor. Others who may be top 10 worthy are Jeff Jaggers, Jim Jordan, Dean Heil and Nate Tomasello.

Who are we missing? While this is just high school, IMO, winning NCAA titles and/or Sr. World Team medals are validation that you are really good and not just a run of the mill 4x state champ. And I think it's good and necessary to have wrestlers from different eras. Wrestling has been going on for quite a while in Ohio (80 years) and the latest greatest may not be the greatest. And back before 1970 all state titles were one division, not 3 like today, which made it more difficult.

And this isn't the best guy over four years in HS. Back before 1970, you had to be a sophomore to compete so 3 or 2 titles may be better than some guys who won 4. I think a guy needs to have a minimum of 2 state titles. But I'll consider all names submitted (by tomorrow) and then come up with a top ten poll.

Last edited by bdhof; 07-05-18 at 09:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-03-18, 02:40 AM
Boro Fan Boro Fan is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 12-23-07
Location: Reminderville, Ohio
Posts: 9,894
Boro Fan is on a distinguished road
Although I'm not sure these guys are THE best wrestler ever, I think they might be worthy enough to be Top 10.

Mark Zimmer
Ken Ramsey
Ryan Lang
Lance Palmer
Bo Jordan

Didn't personally see the first two, but they always seem to be brought up when discussing the best and both were obviously four-timers (Actually all five guys I listed all four-time champs)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-03-18, 03:47 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 01-26-14
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,212
darthmalice is on a distinguished road
David Carr
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-03-18, 06:48 AM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 08-07-10
Location: Maggies Farm
Posts: 2,922
MPhillips will become famous soon enough
Zimmer belongs on the list in my opinion.

I have Fickell one or two dependendant upon Fried.
Although the argument for Fickell at number one will be made by many.
Always a fun topic.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-03-18, 09:27 AM
Coach Root Coach Root is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 03-02-07
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1,095
Coach Root is on a distinguished road
This is an almost impossible question.

I have to go with Fried, Kemp, Taylor, Philips, and Schlatter for my top five.

While we are talking high school wrestling, it's tough to overlook what some also did after the fact.

Fried and Kemp are the creme of the crop in any era. I'm sure others are well deserving of being in the conversation.

When you factor is the evolution of the sport and the jump to national exposure and competition levels.. it's tough to overlook the dominance of the other three at a national level, let alone a state level.

I love the topic.


Coach Root

Last edited by Coach Root; 07-03-18 at 09:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-03-18, 09:30 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-10
Posts: 4,394
bdhof is on a distinguished road
If I do it right, I'll set up the poll to let people make their top 5 or 10 picks. That way we get a better sense of who the top 10 are. Then I'll do a new poll with one choice for GOAT. So feel free to add names that should be in the top 5 or 10 but aren't mentioned above.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-03-18, 09:46 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-10
Posts: 4,394
bdhof is on a distinguished road
I think Bobby Douglas needs to be in the hunt for top 10, and maybe closer to top 5.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-03-18, 09:53 AM
Nick Corey Nick Corey is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 10-02-12
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 1,060
Nick Corey is on a distinguished road
The "greatest" in Ohio alone will always be a subjective exercise--opinion has to enter the equation.
Fried--as far as I know--is the only high schooler from Ohio to beat an NCAA Champion while Fried was still in high school himself, beating Clar Anderson, national champ for Oklahoma State and future head coach at Duke. First Jr. National 4X Champion. Ranked (at 2nd) behind Kolat as the greatest high school wrestler ever, but the list was compiled in 2005. Obviously, others would be on that list if it were updated.
To me, the most IMPRESSIVE wrestler--based solely on the fact that he never wrestled before 9th grade--was Lee Kemp. I can't think of anyone to overcome the learning curve as quickly as he did to become as dominant as he did. 2X State Champ; 3X NCAA Champ (2nd in NCAAs his freshman year at Wisconsin); 3X World Champion.
Freak of nature.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-03-18, 10:06 AM
dmean76 dmean76 is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 02-24-16
Posts: 53
dmean76 is on a distinguished road
David Taylor
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-03-18, 10:09 AM
dmean76 dmean76 is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 02-24-16
Posts: 53
dmean76 is on a distinguished road
I like harry Lester and his funky style and Luke Fickel was just a bad .
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-03-18, 10:12 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-10
Posts: 4,394
bdhof is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Corey View Post
Fried was ranked (at 2nd) behind Kolat as the greatest high school wrestler ever, but the list was compiled in 2005. Obviously, others would be on that list if it were updated.
This ranking was "over the last 20 years (1985-2005)" so it excluded most but not all of the wrestlers mentioned so far. And that list was Top 20 and also included Ohioans Dustin Schlatter at #6, and had Honorable Mention grouped by 21-30 that included CP Schlatter, and Honorable Mention 31-40 that included Harry Lester and Luke Fickell.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-03-18, 11:10 AM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 02-23-12
Posts: 2,566
Yankeefan33 is on a distinguished road
If this includes data beyond high school, I think it's Kemp or Stieber. Any other Ohio wrestlers won a state championship, NCAA D1 championship, and World/Olympic championship?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-03-18, 11:17 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-10
Posts: 4,394
bdhof is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeefan33 View Post
If this includes data beyond high school, I think it's Kemp or Stieber. Any other Ohio wrestlers won a state championship, NCAA D1 championship, and World/Olympic championship?
Nope, no one did other than Kemp and Stieber. Keeping it just HS makes the debate more open. That being said, I don't think you can ignore what they do after HS. As I said above, it validates that you were really good and not just a multiple time state champ.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-03-18, 11:30 AM
Huge Huge is online now
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 09-17-10
Posts: 692
Huge is on a distinguished road
Milkovich then everyone else....
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-03-18, 11:49 AM
jujutsuguy219 jujutsuguy219 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 02-23-11
Posts: 199
jujutsuguy219 is on a distinguished road
Johnny McGee from Coventry maybe should be in the conversation. His teammate Chad Owen's as well.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-03-18, 11:50 AM
BobPreusse BobPreusse is online now
All American
 
Join Date: 02-16-05
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 1,260
BobPreusse is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
If I do it right, I'll set up the poll to let people make their top 5 or 10 picks. That way we get a better sense of who the top 10 are. Then I'll do a new poll with one choice for GOAT. So feel free to add names that should be in the top 5 or 10 but aren't mentioned above.

A few points:
....bdhof good idea to have 2 polls, one just to name the top 10.
....1 guy no one, incl myself, mentioned but in his day NO ONE wanted to wrestle him, Johnny McGhee. i went to a Walsh-Coventry scrimmage-- this was WJ heyday with their big names --- and NO ONE wanted to partner with Johnny even in practice, he was so EXPLOSIVE he could hurt you.
....Reasoning my pix- national comp "separates", thats why Fargo is important. It identifies the true greats.
....(Fargo wasnt in Fargo in Fried's day but) he is the only 4x Jr Ntl FR champ. Other Ohioans who DOMINATED there Year after Year incl Dustin Schlatter, Logan Stieber, David Taylor, and for 2 years Luke Fickel, Tommy Rowlands, & Chris Phillips.
....Tom Milkovich was 100 & 0 in his 3 HS years, never lost. 4X Big Ten champ, NCAA champ beat the man who beat Gable, Larry Owings. Harry Lester was a human Blitzgrieg AND Cadet WORLD free champ, btw.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-03-18, 12:11 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-10
Posts: 4,394
bdhof is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jujutsuguy219 View Post
Johnny McGee from Coventry maybe should be in the conversation. His teammate Chad Owen's as well.
Johnny McGee will be on the list. I don't think Owens won 2 titles, which is a requirement.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-03-18, 05:41 PM
Pope Francis 1 Pope Francis 1 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 01-30-16
Location: Vatican City
Posts: 1,829
Pope Francis 1 is on a distinguished road
Me
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-03-18, 06:02 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-10
Posts: 4,394
bdhof is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pope Francis 1 View Post
Me
Got it.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-03-18, 07:11 PM
dman dman is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-15-04
Location: Boardman
Posts: 707
dman is on a distinguished road
This is good stuff
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-03-18, 07:36 PM
BobPreusse BobPreusse is online now
All American
 
Join Date: 02-16-05
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 1,260
BobPreusse is on a distinguished road
i hope this sticks pretty close to GOAT based primarily on high school resume/body of work--yes college and international "verify" to a degree but it doesnt mean that person was better in high school.

if its up to a full lifetime resume, we dont need to poll, its clearly Lee Kemp followed by Logan Stieber. But Kemp is probably not top 10 in high school, someone said he didnt wrestle until 9th grade, that would explain his arc of development as he got older. ..... And Steiber is probably not 1 or 2 in high school, his only high school loss was a 7-3 domination by David Taylor who was the first Ironman 4x champ-- now that is a 4xer.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-03-18, 08:33 PM
dmean76 dmean76 is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 02-24-16
Posts: 53
dmean76 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobPreusse View Post
i hope this sticks pretty close to GOAT based primarily on high school resume/body of work--yes college and international "verify" to a degree but it doesnt mean that person was better in high school.

if its up to a full lifetime resume, we dont need to poll, its clearly Lee Kemp followed by Logan Stieber. But Kemp is probably not top 10 in high school, someone said he didnt wrestle until 9th grade, that would explain his arc of development as he got older. ..... And Steiber is probably not 1 or 2 in high school, his only high school loss was a 7-3 domination by David Taylor who was the first Ironman 4x champ-- now that is a 4xer.
Prime example is Bruce baumgardner never won a high school state title
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-03-18, 10:21 PM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 01-26-14
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,212
darthmalice is on a distinguished road
With Ohio having 31 4x state champs, probably easier to leave most of them off the list.

Last edited by darthmalice; 07-04-18 at 07:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-04-18, 09:00 AM
Donkability Donkability is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-03-12
Posts: 964
Donkability is on a distinguished road
I just recently heard a Ohio D1 four timer from back in the day mention he has seen 7th and 8th placers now that would have beat him back then. Basically our sport has evolved, back in the day our dudes were bad bad dudes, they could break anyone in half! Mental Machines! Today our kids are fine tuned wrestlers filled with information from the greatest that have ever lived! When you mention GOAT in Ohio Im not thinking of the Jordans (Jim and Jeff) or the Zimmer, I am leaning more to 4x dudes that stormed the nation in grade school, middle school, high school and college. Lance Palmer is one name that pops up right away! 4x AA at The OSU! David Taylor definitely! Lester! one of the best greco light weights we have produced! This day in age David Carr is as good as they come! also have some hammers in there now Decatur just to name a special one.

lets take a look at the 4xers from Ohio, I dont have the list handy but has anyone had a better lifetime career then Palmer and Taylor? Rowlands won 3 in hs and 2 in college plus him and Mocco matches were legendary. HS is not so important, kids mature at different ages and stuff. (jordan Burroughs example)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-04-18, 09:11 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 01-26-14
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,212
darthmalice is on a distinguished road
Felipe Martinez
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-04-18, 09:50 AM
BobPreusse BobPreusse is online now
All American
 
Join Date: 02-16-05
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 1,260
BobPreusse is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkability View Post
lets take a look at the 4xers from Ohio, I dont have the list handy but has anyone had a better lifetime career then Palmer and Taylor? Rowlands won 3 in hs and 2 in college plus him and Mocco matches were legendary. HS is not so important, kids mature at different ages and stuff. (jordan Burroughs example)

i believe both Palmer's each won only 1 Ironman, Taylor won 4. Look at Ironman results carefully, in this era it was The Separater. All 4 Monroville 4xers, ALL of their high school losses came in the Ironman. Every loss.

U say "HS not so important"---- u havent been following this thread and the other GOAT thread that initiated this one, the Alan Fried Goat HS thread.. The object is to identify Ohio's Greatest HIGH SCHOOL WRESTLER. i asked BDHOF to set up a poll to determine who readers think was the Ohio HS GOAT. He kindly responded that yes he would. Thats where we are now.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-04-18, 09:55 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-10
Posts: 4,394
bdhof is on a distinguished road
I'm working on the poll now. No new names will be added. I have 20 something now and will do a Top 10 followed by a Final (may do a Top 5 in between). I did add Bobby Douglas, just because I think he's way above some of the others listed, although may not be a top 10.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-04-18, 10:16 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 01-26-14
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,212
darthmalice is on a distinguished road
Chris Phillips has a good case for #2, behind David Taylor and slightly ahead of Alan Fried. Besides the 2 losses at Ironman as a result of default and forfeit( guessing cause of health reason), his 3-2 dec lost to senior Ed Ruth( future 3x NCAA champ) as a sophomore is worth some credit.

Will the G.O.A.T. be the 1st guy to go 4 years undefeated?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-04-18, 11:43 AM
coachjw coachjw is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 09-14-04
Location: northwest Oh
Posts: 270
coachjw
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmalice View Post
Chris Phillips has a good case for #2, behind David Taylor and slightly ahead of Alan Fried. Besides the 2 losses at Ironman as a result of default and forfeit( guessing cause of health reason), his 3-2 dec lost to senior Ed Ruth( future 3x NCAA champ) as a sophomore is worth some credit.

Will the G.O.A.T. be the 1st guy to go 4 years undefeated?
No, because it's who you beat. He couldn't beat some guys on that list like Bo.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-04-18, 11:55 AM
Yankeefan33 Yankeefan33 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 02-23-12
Posts: 2,566
Yankeefan33 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmalice View Post
Chris Phillips has a good case for #2, behind David Taylor and slightly ahead of Alan Fried. Besides the 2 losses at Ironman as a result of default and forfeit( guessing cause of health reason), his 3-2 dec lost to senior Ed Ruth( future 3x NCAA champ) as a sophomore is worth some credit.

Will the G.O.A.T. be the 1st guy to go 4 years undefeated?
I think to be the undisputed best Ohio HS wrestler of all time, you have to do three things:

1. Four time undefeated champ
2. Four time Ironman champ
3. Cadet World champ

If someone can hit all three, I don't think there is any discussion; that would also put someone on the short list of best HS wrestlers in this century.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All star game- Ohio 22 Pa. 20 LICKING COUNTY FAN Football 15 07-16-18 08:12 PM
College Players of The Week - Michigan / Ohio area (04/03) - seclmw Baseball 2 04-03-18 07:21 PM
Ironman bdhof Wrestling 120 12-11-17 09:15 PM
Ohio All-Star Wrestling Team 2018-2020 Ohio TofC Wrestling 11 10-15-17 10:51 PM
Regional Ohio Results HiC Wrestling 4 05-22-17 09:56 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:42 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz