#91  
Old 11-20-18, 04:09 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by IKS View Post
The facts are that Seton changed approach about 5 years ago. That year, Mercy had 130 freshman and Seton 95 (down from 120ish).
The current seniors at Seton are the VERY small class. So actually they changed their approach when the current juniors were in 8th grade which is just 3 years ago.

Last edited by PURPLE REIGN; 11-20-18 at 04:23 PM.
  #92  
Old 11-20-18, 04:13 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
Exactly.

Don't minimize the work Seton has done to proactively drive this change. It's an insult to their hard work. And that's what it takes. A pro-active strategy from your Leadership followed by execution and buy-in from your school.

Elder needs a vision for the future from their Leadership team, and a drive to get people behind it. They have neither at the moment.
Ummm, no, not exactly. It was just three year ago that Seton changed its approach. Not five. The current seniors at Seton are the small class.

Answer this: If Seton is doing such a great job and Elder such a poor job, how does Elder have 800 students and Seton 550?
  #93  
Old 11-20-18, 05:41 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Ummm, no, not exactly. It was just three year ago that Seton changed its approach. Not five. The current seniors at Seton are the small class.

Answer this: If Seton is doing such a great job and Elder such a poor job, how does Elder have 800 students and Seton 550?
Dude, youíre wasting your energy. Iím sure there are things Elder can learn from Setonís approach, but itís ignorant to ignore the impact of Mercy closing.
  #94  
Old 11-20-18, 06:29 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Dude, youíre wasting your energy.
Just sharing the facts.
  #95  
Old 11-20-18, 06:54 PM
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Iíll ask again, did anyone attend the Open House or at least hear how it went?
  #96  
Old 11-20-18, 10:30 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Once again, you pick and choose what I write and poke holes. I never said Mercy closing didn't have an impact. I said even with Mercy closing, Seton put on the full court press already knowing they would get a windfall. That's called a plan.

And it started well before Mercy closed. Those are the facts.

And you're really comparing the overall enrollment of Elder and Seton to see who's doing "better". Yes, your facts are correct, but it doesn't tell the story you say it does.

Do you see Elder's constant decline in enrollment an issue? And if yes, do you put any accountability on the leadership? I know you won't answer. No one will.

It's all just circumstance and excuses.
  #97  
Old 11-20-18, 10:31 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
Iíll ask again, did anyone attend the Open House or at least hear how it went?
Apparently not.
  #98  
Old 11-20-18, 10:35 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Ummm, no, not exactly. It was just three year ago that Seton changed its approach. Not five. The current seniors at Seton are the small class.

Answer this: If Seton is doing such a great job and Elder such a poor job, how does Elder have 800 students and Seton 550?
The point is...they changed. They saw the need to adapt and adapted.

What happens if they remained status quo?

You just implied Seton isn't doing a great job at this. Are you serious? Ask any parent how much they enjoyed Seton's open house, and if their efforts to be completely inclusive to all type of girls is helping or hurting?

It's amazing what facts you consider truth. You will forever take the opposite side of anything I post, and you will forever defend Elder regardless of what they do.
  #99  
Old 11-21-18, 06:57 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
Once again, you pick and choose what I write and poke holes.

Do you see Elder's constant decline in enrollment an issue? And if yes, do you put any accountability on the leadership? I know you won't answer. No one will.
That's right. I poke holes in what you say b/c you used the word "exactly" as if it was a fact when it was not. Never once did you say "Even with Mercy closing" before the IKS post nor did you give any credit to Mercy closing as being a big reason why Seton had a bump.

Furthermore, you didn't answer the question. If Seton has a "pro-active strategy from leadership followed by execution and buy in" and Elder does not have "a vision for the future from their leadership team, and a drive to get people behind", how does Elder have 800 students and Seton 550?

The reality is Seton isn't as great as your acting and Elder isn't as bad.

I have said many times Elder's enrollment is an issue. It has been an issue for 20+ years. Of course leadership and admissions need to be better, but it is not the reason for the drop. Rather its b/c the cost to attend and the lack of numbers in grade schools. The feeder schools are all shrinking at an alarming rate. Teresa, Lourdes, Lawrence, Holy Family, William, Dominic,etc. are a shadow of what they once were. Elder needs to attract more non-feeder kids or they will follow the same fate as Roger Bacon and Purcell.
  #100  
Old 11-21-18, 07:04 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
What happens if they remained status quo?

You just implied Seton isn't doing a great job at this.
I didn't imply anything. I only called you out for stating that one group is incredible and the other is a mess. I genuinely hope Seton gets to 1000 students...lord knows their athletic teams could use the influx of talent.

To answer your question, if Seton had remained status quo and done nothing, their enrollment would have increased b/c Mercy went out of business.

Last edited by PURPLE REIGN; 11-21-18 at 08:01 AM.
  #101  
Old 11-21-18, 07:56 AM
IKS IKS is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
The current seniors at Seton are the VERY small class. So actually they changed their approach when the current juniors were in 8th grade which is just 3 years ago.
Thanks for the detailed thought on this. I was generalizing to make a point. Also, the schools know enrollment for the next freshman class at the January registration. So, I guess technically its about 3 years 10 months....and the downturn started before that, this senior group just happened to be the low point.
  #102  
Old 11-21-18, 08:00 AM
IKS IKS is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
I didn't imply anything. I only called you our for stating that one group is incredible and the other is a mess. I genuinely hope Seton gets to 1000 students...lord knows their athletic teams could use the influx of talent.

To answer your question, if Seton had remained status quo and done nothing, their enrollment would have increased b/c Mercy went out of business.
But if they hadn't turned it around when they did, they may have been the ones going out of existence.

Elder is doing better, they just didn't have the burning platform as early as Seton. We can help them more by recognizing what they are trying to change and supporting it, rather than nitpicking every statement made.
  #103  
Old 11-21-18, 08:06 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by IKS View Post
Elder is doing better. We can help them more by recognizing what they are trying to change and supporting it, rather than nitpicking every statement made.
Agreed. Tell that to Trey
  #104  
Old 11-21-18, 08:09 AM
IKS IKS is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
That's right. I poke holes in what you say b/c you used the word "exactly" as if it was a fact when it was not. Never once did you say "Even with Mercy closing" before the IKS post nor did you give any credit to Mercy closing as being a big reason why Seton had a bump.

Furthermore, you didn't answer the question. If Seton has a "pro-active strategy from leadership followed by execution and buy in" and Elder does not have "a vision for the future from their leadership team, and a drive to get people behind", how does Elder have 800 students and Seton 550?

The reality is Seton isn't as great as your acting and Elder isn't as bad.

I have said many times Elder's enrollment is an issue. It has been an issue for 20+ years. Of course leadership and admissions need to be better, but it is not the reason for the drop. Rather its b/c the cost to attend and the lack of numbers in grade schools. The feeder schools are all shrinking at an alarming rate. Teresa, Lourdes, Lawrence, Holy Family, William, Dominic,etc. are a shadow of what they once were. Elder needs to attract more non-feeder kids or they will follow the same fate as Roger Bacon and Purcell.
Don't focus on the exact numbers at a point in time, recognize the trend. I'd expect with Mercy gone, the trend for Elder and Seton going forward may be for their enrollment figures to converge (maybe not all the way since other factors may dictate an enrollment strategy based on an economic marginal analysis).

With Mercy gone, the demographics and natural service area are much more aligned than they had been in the past. I hope both schools can reach their economic sweet spot in terms of enrollment. This is the way they can both survive long term.

I also believe they will be more successful if they are collaborative in some areas, as they are doing now. A healthy partner next door can make either school more valuable and attractive.
  #105  
Old 11-21-18, 08:27 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by IKS View Post
Don't focus on the exact numbers at a point in time, recognize the trend. I'd expect with Mercy gone, the trend for Elder and Seton going forward may be for their enrollment figures to converge (maybe not all the way since other factors may dictate an enrollment strategy based on an economic marginal analysis).

With Mercy gone, the demographics and natural service area are much more aligned than they had been in the past. I hope both schools can reach their economic sweet spot in terms of enrollment. This is the way they can both survive long term.

I also believe they will be more successful if they are collaborative in some areas, as they are doing now. A healthy partner next door can make either school more valuable and attractive.
Realistically, Elder needs to be at 900.
  #106  
Old 11-21-18, 08:28 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
That's right. I poke holes in what you say b/c you used the word "exactly" as if it was a fact when it was not. Never once did you say "Even with Mercy closing" before the IKS post nor did you give any credit to Mercy closing as being a big reason why Seton had a bump.
Of course that made a difference. Didn't see the need to call out something so obvious.

The point was, they adapted. They changed. You can see it. The are active recruiters year-round. It's something that is necessary now. I don't see Elder doing that. Or at a minimum, they haven't done that.

Wouldn't you agree?
  #107  
Old 11-21-18, 08:31 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
Realistically, Elder needs to be at 900.
I would agree, but aren't they below 800 right now? That's a pretty significant jump. It would have to happen over a 5-10 year time span unless something drastic happens (like a school closing). And that's IF they get super aggressive in recruiting, and that's IF the market buys in to what they're selling. It's a tough road to get to that point.
  #108  
Old 11-21-18, 09:07 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
Of course that made a difference. Didn't see the need to call out something so obvious.

The point was, they adapted. They changed. You can see it. The are active recruiters year-round. It's something that is necessary now. I don't see Elder doing that. Or at a minimum, they haven't done that.

Wouldn't you agree?
So obvious? You have spent two days going out of your way to downplay the significance of Mercy closing on Seton, but now you say so obvious? Hilarious.

I have repeatedly asked you the same question, that you will not answer so I'll try again. If Seton has a "pro-active strategy from leadership followed by execution and buy in" and Elder does not have "a vision for the future from their leadership team, and a drive to get people behind", how does Elder have 800 students and Seton 550?

As for your question, I think both schools do approximately the same things.
  #109  
Old 11-21-18, 09:25 AM
Noeyboey Noeyboey is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Furthermore, you didn't answer the question. If Seton has a "pro-active strategy from leadership followed by execution and buy in" and Elder does not have "a vision for the future from their leadership team, and a drive to get people behind", how does Elder have 800 students and Seton 550?
I believe Seton has felt that for the past couple of years they were staffed to support around 500 girls. I think they actually had to cap admissions after Mercy closed. From what I saw and heard at their open house, whatever they have been doing in the prior couple of years, they are now ready to increase their max enrollment number. Again, just what I heard, but they will not be turning away any admission this year.
  #110  
Old 11-21-18, 09:26 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
So obvious? You have spent two days going out of your way to downplay the significance of Mercy closing on Seton, but now you say so obvious? Hilarious.

I have repeatedly asked you the same question, that you will not answer so I'll try again. If Seton has a "pro-active strategy from leadership followed by execution and buy in" and Elder does not have "a vision for the future from their leadership team, and a drive to get people behind", how does Elder have 800 students and Seton 550?

As for your question, I think both schools do approximately the same things.
I never downplayed the significance of Mercy closing. You made that up. I never mentioned it, but I never said it didn't play a part. Obviously a school closing is going to open up choice.

You know I'm talking about recent history. It is beyond obvious that Seton has made tremendous strides in growing enrollment and pushing marketing and recruiting in the past 5 years. It's one of their current strengths (wasn't always this way).

Elder's tradition used to sell itself. Open borders drastically changed that, especially as the cost has risen. Elder traditionally could have drawn 200 per class in their sleep. They didn't need a vast admissions team to do that. They sat on that reality for much too long, and now they are suffering the consequences. No one had the vision to realize how open borders would impact their enrollment, because they assumed the west side would forever "bleed purple".

Now they are behind the 8 ball. It's going to take a mountain's worth of work and creativity to get back to even 900 students. It's going to require an ultra traditional school to adapt some very progressive changes and it will stretch them to the point of where they have to do some things they've traditionally been very uncomfortable doing, and I'm not talking about recruiting (decisions about people, past practices, culture, change management, etc).

I would disagree completely that the schools do the same things. I look at Seton and see a culture of welcoming and inclusion for all of their girls. They are excited to be there, there is an energy about the school, and the girls seem to enjoy seeing the success of their classmates.

I used to see that at Elder, but I think that has waned tremendously, especially with the passion and excitement the students have for their school. Much of their identity is tied to sports and a pocket of athletes, both past and present. I don't see the same connection to the school for much of student body anymore, and I think it's rooted in too many years of close relationships, close family and friendship ties, and the power and influence of a small group of people that allows the most opportunity for a small contingent of followers, and has had an impact on the feelings of inclusion for the whole (both current and prospective students). That passion and connection used to be a HUGE selling point at Elder.

That's my opinion, but that's what I see. You can disagree.

Last edited by OldSchoolPanther; 11-21-18 at 09:42 AM.
  #111  
Old 11-21-18, 09:38 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
That's my opinion, but that's what I see. You can disagree.
Yes, I disagree. I believe you are cherry picking a handful of limited examples among the schools/students and making it seem like a dominant theme. I attribute 90% of Elder's decline in enrollment to the corresponding decline in feeder school boys + the rising cost of tuition.

I do think Elder can and must do better when it comes to the remaining 10%.
  #112  
Old 11-21-18, 09:47 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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I find it hard to attribute 90% to the decline in feeder school kids because X and Moe are doing just fine in terms of enrollment, as are plenty of all-female parochial high schools (Seton, Ursula, MND). If that's an absolute, you'd see it declining at all parochial high schools in Cincinnati, and that's simply not happening.

Some schools are executing better than others. Open borders has made competition real. You can't hide from that.

Yes, there are things out of Elder's control, but saying only 10% is within their control reeks of the typical excuses we see from a lot of Elder people about the accountability with this issue.
  #113  
Old 11-21-18, 10:21 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
I find it hard to attribute 90% to the decline in feeder school kids because X and Moe are doing just fine in terms of enrollment, as are plenty of all-female parochial high schools (Seton, Ursula, MND). If that's an absolute, you'd see it declining at all parochial high schools in Cincinnati, and that's simply not happening.

Some schools are executing better than others. Open borders has made competition real. You can't hide from that.

Yes, there are things out of Elder's control, but saying only 10% is within their control reeks of the typical excuses we see from a lot of Elder people about the accountability with this issue.
Well simple question, are other parochial grade schools around the city shrinking as quickly/dramatically as the feeder schools to Elder? I would assume they're shrinking some, but nearly as much or as fast. That should answer your first paragraph.
  #114  
Old 11-21-18, 10:22 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Well simple question, are other parochial grade schools around the city shrinking as quickly/dramatically as the feeder schools to Elder? I would assume they're shrinking some, but nearly as much or as fast.
Fair question. I would assume so, but don't know for sure.

There is a concentration on the westside, but there seems to be a bunch across the city as well.
  #115  
Old 11-21-18, 10:24 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
I find it hard to attribute 90% to the decline in feeder school kids because X and Moe are doing just fine in terms of enrollment, as are plenty of all-female parochial high schools (Seton, Ursula, MND).
You realize that X and Moe are not drawing from the same feeder schools as Elder right?

Not sure why you keep mentioning schools which are not impacted by the changing demographics and housing situation on the west-side of town. It does not impact Ursula, X, MND, and Moe. The better comparison to Elder is Seton, Mercy, McAulay, and LaSalle.
  #116  
Old 11-21-18, 10:27 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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The flight from the westside is absolutely an issue. But that's an issue that's going to make it even harder for Elder. Add that to the list of why Elder is in a much worse position than their competition.

Just another reason why drastic change is needed.

So you don't think Elder has competition for high school Catholic kids on the westside? That they're the only Catholic game in town and that all westside kids will go there? This is EXACTLY the approach that has gotten them in trouble. What St X and Moeller are doing absolutely impacts what Elder is doing.

You're right, X and Moe don't have similar socio-economic issues as Elder, and they STILL recruit city-wide even when they don't have to. That's exactly my point. Elder has so many more disadvantages (location, concentration of feeder kids, housing, etc) but don't even begin to come close to the marketing and recruiting X and Moe do. It's the reason they're falling behind.

Omar has always said that the competition will look to bury you, and that's exactly what is happening. You have to adapt and survive.
  #117  
Old 11-21-18, 10:42 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
So you don't think Elder has competition for high school Catholic kids on the westside? That they're the only Catholic game in town and that all westside kids will go there? This is EXACTLY the approach that has gotten them in trouble.

You're right, X and Moe don't have similar socio-economic issues as Elder, and they STILL recruit city-wide even when they don't have to.
I never said Elder didnt have competition nor did I say all westside kids would go there. That has never been the case. My stance is their are far fewer kids to choose from in the feeder schools plus the cost is way higher so less are going to Elder. Elder needs to find more non-feeder school kids if they want to maintain the same numbers.

What do you mean X and Moe dont have to recruit city wide?

And it's not the competition that is burying Elder...it's the changing demographics.
  #118  
Old 11-21-18, 10:51 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post

What do you mean X and Moe dont have to recruit city wide?

And it's not the competition that is burying Elder...it's the changing demographics.
I said they DO recruit city-wide, even without the socio-economic issues Elder has. They could get away with doing less, especially at Moeller, because of economics, but they don't. They're pulling studs from everywhere.

And for your second point, it's both. You don't see the difference in athletes at Moeller on the athletic field? That's not 100% of the story, but it plays a part in perceived (and real) success which leads to better recruiting.

What does it take to get you to admit Elder isn't doing enough? It's funny that you will readily admit "they could be doing more" but you refuse to say "they're not doing enough".
  #119  
Old 11-21-18, 10:59 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
I said they DO recruit city-wide, even without the socio-economic issues Elder has. They could get away with doing less, especially at Moeller, because of economics, but they don't. They're pulling studs from everywhere.

And for your second point, it's both. You don't see the difference in athletes at Moeller on the athletic field? That's not 100% of the story, but it plays a part in perceived (and real) success which leads to better recruiting.
My point is Moe absolutely has to recruit city wide. If they did not recruit city wide, they would have less students than Elder.

Yes, Moeller/X has a geographic advantage of being able to pull from the fastest growing school districts in the state (Lakota, Mason, Springboro, Little Miami, etc.). This convenience allows them to recruit better athletes.
  #120  
Old 11-21-18, 11:03 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
What does it take to get you to admit Elder isn't doing enough? It's funny that you will readily admit "they could be doing more" but you refuse to say "they're not doing enough".
Elder absolutely could be doing better. 90% is out of their control, but the 10% in their control must improve.
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