#1  
Old 10-11-18, 11:21 AM
Noeyboey Noeyboey is offline
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Enrollment Numbers 2018-2019

Does anyone know the enrollment size of the current freshmen class? 200+?
Was the graduating class of 2018 a large class? 220+?

Elder:
2016-2017: 850
2017-2018: 796
2018-2019: 770

LaSalle:
2016-2017: 637
2017-2018: 624
2018-2019: 622

Moeller:
2016-2017: 886
2017-2018: 881
2018-2019: 873

St. Xavier:
2016-2017: 1571
2017-2018: 1536
2018-2019: 1492

Seton:
2016-2017: 464
2017-2018: 502
2018-2019: 519

St. Ursula:
2017-2018: 650
2018-2019: 654

McAuley:
2017-2018: 464
Mercy:
2017-2018: 406
Mercy-McAuley:
2018-2019: 726

These numbers are from the archdioceses website.
Elder: http://www.catholiccincinnati.org/school-info/?id=706
LaSalle: http://www.catholiccincinnati.org/school-info/?id=718
Moeller: http://www.catholiccincinnati.org/school-info/?id=724
St. Xavier: http://www.catholiccincinnati.org/school-info/?id=808
Seton: http://www.catholiccincinnati.org/school-info/?id=746
St. Ursula: http://www.catholiccincinnati.org/school-info/?id=725
Mercy-McAuley: http://www.catholiccincinnati.org/school-info/?id=722
  #2  
Old 10-11-18, 11:38 AM
Omar Omar is offline
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I don’t think it was that large, the current JR class is about that size. The Soph class is killing them in terms of enrollment.

No matter how many times I say it, I’ll keep saying it bc it’s important, Elder can’t only rely on the Feeders. It’s a new era, actually it’s not really new bc it’s been that way for years, but thank god they’ve got someone in charge who sees that.

All of this talk about kids being loyal to Elder bc they grew up Purple is fine for the press, but it’s not going to help the school. To get back to a decent enrollment # they need to prioritize the following:

1) St Ignatius, St James, St John Dry Ridge.

2) OHS Middle schools.

3) Central Area (Bacon Feeders).

4) CPS

Seems like more Visi kids are going to opt for Taylor as the school transitions into more of an upper middle class school away from the Roughneck crowd. Visi has been and is still very good to Elder, but they’re just not going to be as reliable. Elder’s not even doing anything wrong, it’s the Price Tag is a lot for the majority of families, even with aid. Elder has to cast a wider net, it’s the only way to stabilize enrollment in this environment. The #s in their core market are dwindling and frankly, they’re not going to get better. They’re going to have to poach kids from LS, Bacon, and Oak Hills. It’s an ugly game that’s only going to get uglier, but if Elder wants to still exist in 20 yrs, they’re going to have to get aggressive and step on some toes.

Last edited by Omar; 10-11-18 at 12:18 PM.
  #3  
Old 10-11-18, 12:58 PM
Jerry Maguire Jerry Maguire is offline
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Seeing Elder in the 700s is really sad...but again, tuition just keeps going from outrageous to more outrageous.
  #4  
Old 10-11-18, 12:59 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Isn't Elder still the cheapest in the GCL-S?
  #5  
Old 10-11-18, 01:04 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by EHS 2001 View Post
Isn't Elder still the cheapest in the GCL-S?
They and LS are almost identical. I remember a few yrs ago, Elder was like $100 cheaper, but that was before everyone got tablets.
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Old 10-11-18, 01:09 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by Jerry Maguire View Post
Seeing Elder in the 700s is really sad...but again, tuition just keeps going from outrageous to more outrageous.
Does Elder have sole discretion in setting tuition? Or does the Diocese have some sort of sliding scale based on current enrollment? IE schools bw 500-800 students can’t set tuition above 13k or below 8k.
  #7  
Old 10-11-18, 01:17 PM
polar panther polar panther is offline
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Originally Posted by EHS 2001 View Post
Isn't Elder still the cheapest in the GCL-S?
Even if it is, it doesnít mean itís affordable for many of families. Unless they can stabilize it, it will become more and more of a problem for future families, for Elder and all private schools. Then factor in college tuition as well, there is just so much money to go around in families budgets
  #8  
Old 10-11-18, 01:31 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Don't quote me on this, but I believe the current freshman class is around 170. There are many, many factors working against Elder, and without a drastic shift, it could get scary:

1) Cost - unsustainable - they have to find a way to lower the cost or it's checkmate
2) Location - newer, cheaper (free) options (Taylor, WH West)
3) Location - nearly impossible to recruit East to West (there are plenty that go West to East)
4) Feeder classes - Visi is shrinking; others are consolidating; most are declining
5) Mystique - it's dwindling and honestly, not a consideration anymore - that magic seems gone
6) Competition - the level of athlete we have in the westside pocket can't compete with city-wide talent - talent pool is simply too small - athletes aren't coming here either
7) Less deep-rooted religious affiliation - see #4

There are more. According to the stats above, they've lost 80 kids in 2 years. That is steep and concerning. That puts us in D2 in about 5-6 years.
  #9  
Old 10-11-18, 01:40 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by polar panther View Post
Even if it is, it doesnít mean itís affordable for many of families. Unless they can stabilize it, it will become more and more of a problem for future families, for Elder and all private schools. Then factor in college tuition as well, there is just so much money to go around in families budgets
Financial Aid and vouchers are more abundant than when I went there when tuition was ~7 K. Theyíre never going to be at 1000, but they should be at a comfortable 850-900 students.

It sounds crass but with the student pop at OHS getting more and more ďroughĒ, the OHS Middle Schools can be picked apart. They had around 15-20 from OHS Middle schools in the Jr Class. Also, more families are going to go away from Catholic Grade Schools to save $.The quality of education at RR has to be comparable to OLV. Same with Dulles and Jude or 3 Rivers and Visi.

It might help if schools in the City Like Lourdes, William, Teresa, etc pushed harder to draw kids in away from substandard schools like Westwood Middle or Carson. Once families see the stark difference in education quality at that level, it makes going to a Catholic HS necessary.
  #10  
Old 10-11-18, 01:48 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Families looking for "quality school districts" never viewed the westside as being a quality school district. Nobody moved here because of the schools (as opposed to some eastside and northern communities where families seek out BECAUSE of their schools).

The saving grace for the westside was the Catholic school system, which at the time, was affordable. That "affordable" thought is waning. People aren't seeking out Oak Hills or West Hi, and now the Catholic families are moving out of the traditional westside. The lack of new development and investment surely doesn't help.

There's very little reason for a family to consider the westside to call their home unless they're already a legacy west-side family. And even those are leaving. It's as much a socio-economic issue than anything else, which Elder really can't control.
  #11  
Old 10-11-18, 02:16 PM
Visitation_Football Visitation_Football is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
They and LS are almost identical. I remember a few yrs ago, Elder was like $100 cheaper, but that was before everyone got tablets.
Elder is actually about $1000 less than LaSalle. What's most disturbing about their enrollment numbers is that they also give out far more financial aid than LS and the GCL-North schools that they are competing against for students. And facility wise Elder blows all those schools out of the water. Biggest issue in my opinion is they have failed miserably in recent years from a marketing standpoint and undervaluing the pull sports success can have on enrollment. I have high hopes that will be changing with Brian Hiles in charge now.
  #12  
Old 10-11-18, 02:22 PM
Visitation_Football Visitation_Football is offline
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Originally Posted by Omar View Post
I don’t think it was that large, the current JR class is about that size. The Soph class is killing them in terms of enrollment.

No matter how many times I say it, I’ll keep saying it bc it’s important, Elder can’t only rely on the Feeders. It’s a new era, actually it’s not really new bc it’s been that way for years, but thank god they’ve got someone in charge who sees that.

All of this talk about kids being loyal to Elder bc they grew up Purple is fine for the press, but it’s not going to help the school. To get back to a decent enrollment # they need to prioritize the following:

1) St Ignatius, St James, St John Dry Ridge.

2) OHS Middle schools.

3) Central Area (Bacon Feeders).

4) CPS

Seems like more Visi kids are going to opt for Taylor as the school transitions into more of an upper middle class school away from the Roughneck crowd. Visi has been and is still very good to Elder, but they’re just not going to be as reliable. Elder’s not even doing anything wrong, it’s the Price Tag is a lot for the majority of families, even with aid. Elder has to cast a wider net, it’s the only way to stabilize enrollment in this environment. The #s in their core market are dwindling and frankly, they’re not going to get better. They’re going to have to poach kids from LS, Bacon, and Oak Hills. It’s an ugly game that’s only going to get uglier, but if Elder wants to still exist in 20 yrs, they’re going to have to get aggressive and step on some toes.

One of my kids shadowed at Taylor, LaSalle and Elder and Taylor has definitely changed over the years. It's a legitimate option now for Visi families. You still have the hillbilly's from lower Cleves but it's not as bad as it used to be. And their facilities are also far better than the facilities Oak Hills and LaSalle have, both of which are extremely outdated. When you compare the facilities and quality of education and all things being equal Elder should not be losing students to OH, LS or Bacon under any circumstances. The OH middle schools are where they should be doing the most damage, especially with how much the student body has changed at the high school. I can't tell you how many OH grads from the 90's I come across who tell me there is no way they will send their kids there for high school. It's a completely different school than it was back then. Elder simply has to sell their product far better than they have been. Ugly or not it is going to determine whether or not they survive long-term.

Last edited by Visitation_Football; 10-11-18 at 02:41 PM.
  #13  
Old 10-11-18, 02:33 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Families looking for "quality school districts" never viewed the westside as being a quality school district. Nobody moved here because of the schools (as opposed to some eastside and northern communities where families seek out BECAUSE of their schools).

The saving grace for the westside was the Catholic school system, which at the time, was affordable. That "affordable" thought is waning. People aren't seeking out Oak Hills or West Hi, and now the Catholic families are moving out of the traditional westside. The lack of new development and investment surely doesn't help.

There's very little reason for a family to consider the westside to call their home unless they're already a legacy west-side family. And even those are leaving. It's as much a socio-economic issue than anything else, which Elder really can't control.
Obviously what you're saying is for the most part true - but are you being employed by an Eastside school or GCL rival? I mean you sit on here and blather on about this, that and the other like you almost enjoy it (or enjoy the thought being right). I know most people on the Westside aren't on here reading this board, but if someone was and they're on the fence regarding schools, reading what you just posted it sure as heck isn't helping.
  #14  
Old 10-11-18, 02:39 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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So I should lie?

I'll change my tune when they give alumni a plan for change and ask for our support. I'd have ZERO problem writing a sizable check if I saw that.

Still waiting on those surveys results as well. I'll keep holding my breath.
  #15  
Old 10-11-18, 02:49 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
So I should lie?

I'll change my tune when they give alumni a plan for change and ask for our support. I'd have ZERO problem writing a sizable check if I saw that.

Still waiting on those surveys results as well. I'll keep holding my breath.
No you shouldn't lie but that holier than thou attitude is part of the problem. You don't want to help - you're content pointing out the problems and not doing anything about them. It's just way too negative of an attitude to have for someone who actually cares, or says that they care.
  #16  
Old 10-11-18, 02:52 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
No you shouldn't lie but that holier than thou attitude is part of the problem. You don't want to help - you're content pointing out the problems and not doing anything about them. It's just way too negative of an attitude to have for someone who actually cares, or says that they care.
  #17  
Old 10-11-18, 03:03 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
No you shouldn't lie but that holier than thou attitude is part of the problem. You don't want to help - you're content pointing out the problems and not doing anything about them. It's just way too negative of an attitude to have for someone who actually cares, or says that they care.
Itís a catch 22. Better SDs, make an area more desireable to live, but it creates more competition. Taylor is just now changing itís reputation and itís already had an impact on Elder.

This isnít the death nail for Elder, but the reality is itís not an issue that will be solved anytime soon. Itís going to be a 3-5 yr process that requires incremental growth every year. Itís also dynamic in that certain yrs maybe Ignatius has 15-20 kids you can take, but other yrs the #s might not be there and you have to make up those #s by patching enrollment together with kids from smaller schools out of the area like Vivianís, OLG, or Bartís.

Itís an uphill battle, but with the righ attitude and right plan, it can be done. Just focus on growing each year.
  #18  
Old 10-11-18, 03:04 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
No you shouldn't lie but that holier than thou attitude is part of the problem. You don't want to help - you're content pointing out the problems and not doing anything about them. It's just way too negative of an attitude to have for someone who actually cares, or says that they care.
Me thinking they should change a bunch of things is part of the problem?

What would you like me to do? It's obvious the listen to feedback they want to listen to, and disregard feedback they don't like.

I can't expect survey results or a plan for change after they've asked me for my opinion?
  #19  
Old 10-11-18, 03:07 PM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Families of girls who live on the east side of Cincinnati (especially northeast) generally select between one of three all girls schools, MND, Urusline or St Ursula. Those same families with boys are usually selecting between Moeller or St X.

If I was running Elder I would be talking to the people who run St. Ursula about how they are recruiting girls. They face two of the same perceptions Elder faces, not a great area and less convenient to get to compared to the other two options. Yet they continue to draw their fare share of girls from Montgomery, Loveland, etc. I realize some of it is due to legacy, however they also draw girls with no family ties to the school.

How do they get girls to consider them as an option?
How do they overcome perceptions about the safety of the area
How do they convince parents/kids to drive 25 minutes rather than 5-15 minutes

I am also curious as to the reasons why Elder alumni who live outside of the west side give to sending their kids to Moeller or St X over Elder
  #20  
Old 10-11-18, 03:13 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post
Families of girls who live on the east side of Cincinnati (especially northeast) generally select between one of three all girls schools, MND, Urusline or St Ursula. Those same families with boys are usually selecting between Moeller or St X.

If I was running Elder I would be talking to the people who run St. Ursula about how they are recruiting girls. They face two of the same perceptions Elder faces, not a great area and less convenient to get to compared to the other two options. Yet they continue to draw their fare share of girls from Montgomery, Loveland, etc. I realize some of it is due to legacy, however they also draw girls with no family ties to the school.

How do they get girls to consider them as an option?
How do they overcome perceptions about the safety of the area
How do they convince parents/kids to drive 25 minutes rather than 5-15 minutes

I am also curious as to the reasons why Elder alumni who live outside of the west side give to sending their kids to Moeller or St X over Elder
Ursula has a prestigious academic reputation. I would say the location issue for both schools is blown out of proportion. You might not want to live in WH or PH, but you’re perfectly safe sending your kids to school their during the day.

I’m guessing the east side alumni just go with the flow and send their kids to the school where most of their friends go. There’s been a few who bucked the trend and sent their kids to Elder. However, in terms of the overall enrollment, it’s not material either way.
  #21  
Old 10-11-18, 03:14 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Me thinking they should change a bunch of things is part of the problem?

What would you like me to do? It's obvious the listen to feedback they want to listen to, and disregard feedback they don't like.

I can't expect survey results or a plan for change after they've asked me for my opinion?
Is that what I said? Did I mention anything about these three points/questions in my post? You just don't get it, you're an arrogant ahole and it comes across very clear in the way you post.

Take your post trashing the Westside and then read Pboy's - are you really saying different things? No. But you're saying it entirely different ways - one extremely positive and one not even close to positive.

It's one thing to step on toes and force change by doing things differently. We all agree that things need to change. What you're doing is throwing a tantrum because they're not doing it your way. Then to top things off you're being an A about it.
  #22  
Old 10-11-18, 03:19 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Is that what I said? Did I mention anything about these three points/questions in my post? You just don't get it, you're an arrogant ahole and it comes across very clear in the way you post.

Take your post trashing the Westside and then read Pboy's - are you really saying different things? No. But you're saying in entirely different ways - one extremely positive and one not even close to positive.

It's only thing to step on toes and force change by doing things differently. We all agree that things need to change. What you're doing is throwing a tantrum because they're not doing it your way. Then to top things off you're being an A about it.
Iím not trying to be positive, just being real. Itís unknown if Elder will dig themselves out of this hole, but is possible. Thatís all Iím saying.
  #23  
Old 10-11-18, 03:23 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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I do agree with Trey in that it would be nice to know their plans, but I also understand why they don’t want to divulge that information. This is hard enough without tipping off the competition.

It’s a tough situation for a lot of us who care and want to help, but really don’t know how. I’m no expert in Marketing, and definitely not a sales guy. I also don’t have any concrete data (class sizes of feeders, avg income by household, etc) to work off, so I’m just basing all of my ideas off likely flawed assumptions
  #24  
Old 10-11-18, 03:28 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
What you're doing is throwing a tantrum because they're not doing it your way. Then to top things off you're being an A about it.
Not really...I'm throwing a tantrum because what they're doing isn't working, in alot of different areas, and they only seem to be scratching the surface for some very deep problems they're facing.

I have no ill will...but there's not much different about the place since I left 15 years ago, and the landscape of high school sports and enrollment has vastly changed.

What's the big splash that puts them back on the map? Where's some risk-taking new program they're implementing, what some aggressive new marketing campaign they're pushing, what's the plan to continue to upgrade the infrastructure of the school? Give me a reason to send you a check. I'm begging to give you my money...and you're basically telling me you don't want it because you'd rather do things "the Elder way". Talk about ego?

That isn't being an ahole, that's asking legit questions about where to throw my money. Stop preaching "Altiora" and then being OK with mediocrity.
  #25  
Old 10-11-18, 03:38 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post

Take your post trashing the Westside .
And how did I trash the westside? I'm perfectly fine admitting I'm one of those people who have west-side lineage and still live there, most likely because of that lineage. I like it there. But I can also admit to myself that it's not what it used to be, and people have legit reasons to be moving away from it and not considering it to raise their families. That doesn't bother me.

I didn't trash it in any way, shape, or form.
  #26  
Old 10-11-18, 03:39 PM
voiceoreaso voiceoreaso is offline
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I hear on this site that Elder gives out so much financial aid. I recently was at a party with many families in their 40's who I would consider middle class to upper middle class(Depending on your definition). Pretty much all of them were complaining that Elder didn't give them any money at all. This makes me wonder who are they giving there money to? One family was told that once a family clears a threshold of income they have no chance of getting money unless their child gets a academic scholarship.
  #27  
Old 10-11-18, 03:45 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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I'm curious vor - were they comparing these amounts based on what X and LS were giving? Apparently both gave out a boatload last year, Elder gave out it's typical amount.
  #28  
Old 10-11-18, 04:02 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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I'm curious vor - were they comparing these amounts based on what X and LS were giving? Apparently both gave out a boatload last year, Elder gave out it's typical amount.
I heard the same thing. Again, not really possible to know how Elder is distributing the $ w/o having all the data in front of us. I do wonder how many took advantage of vouchers in the Frosh class.

Itís a delicate line to walk if youíre Elder. You donít want to beg for more donor $ or give the impression the school is struggling financially, but donors cannot help if they do not know thereís an issue.
  #29  
Old 10-11-18, 04:05 PM
Omar Omar is offline
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Not really...I'm throwing a tantrum because what they're doing isn't working, in alot of different areas, and they only seem to be scratching the surface for some very deep problems they're facing.

I have no ill will...but there's not much different about the place since I left 15 years ago, and the landscape of high school sports and enrollment has vastly changed.

What's the big splash that puts them back on the map? Where's some risk-taking new program they're implementing, what some aggressive new marketing campaign they're pushing, what's the plan to continue to upgrade the infrastructure of the school? Give me a reason to send you a check. I'm begging to give you my money...and you're basically telling me you don't want it because you'd rather do things "the Elder way". Talk about ego?

That isn't being an ahole, that's asking legit questions about where to throw my money. Stop preaching "Altiora" and then being OK with mediocrity.
There is no big splash for building enrollment, it’s an incremental build up that compounds every year. Even being more aggresssive in marketing and generous with financial aid can only have so much impact.

You have valid points in some areas, but I’m not sure what infrastructure additions you’re talking about. Every student gets a laptop, they’ve got AC, and now they’re getting a kick azz new Fitness Center. They’re pretty well covered in that regard.

Last edited by Omar; 10-11-18 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 10-11-18, 04:23 PM
voiceoreaso voiceoreaso is offline
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I believe they were comparing to other schools.
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