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  #31  
Old 05-23-19, 11:35 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
For those of you that were around "back in the day" that MT was all that there was, how common was it, particularly in sprints and sprint relays, for a lesser place to actually have a faster time than 1st place or any higher place? I would think that it would have been a fairly common occurrence. I've seen it happen plenty in open meets today where there is no FAT timing. For this reason alone I regard MTs very lightly and never compare a converted MT to FAT.
Once during the 90s at an invitational they had been so upset at coaching lying for seed marks the year before they decided to qualify based on time. Then their octopus style timer failed, so they were using stopwatches and recording lanes rather than places. My kid won his heat of the 100 and did not make the finals, even though two kids who finished behind him were advanced to the finals. It is the closest (by far) I have ever come to being tossed from a meet by an official. He saw the finish, agreed my kid won the heat, but told me there was nothing he could do because they were advancing by time and the other two had faster listed times.
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  #32  
Old 05-23-19, 11:45 AM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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It is for this very reason that most if not all statisticians will only accept FAT times in the 100m. Manual timing is just too unreliable to be used for that short of a race.
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  #33  
Old 05-23-19, 11:52 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
It is for this very reason that most if not all statisticians will only accept FAT times in the 100m. Manual timing is just too unreliable to be used for that short of a race.
Yes. I don't have a problem saying that a kid's hand timed 52.7 400 at a dual meet without FAT is superior to their previous 53.89 FAT PR (something that happened last year). Particularly when our own hand time agrees with the official hand time. But in the 100 or the short hurdles I never really trust the hand times.
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  #34  
Old 05-23-19, 12:14 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Altor, do you know it timing company software packages would automatically add that 0 to a manual time. Mario Allmon ran a 10.4 at the AAA district meet at Fairfield in 1990 but it is listed at 10.40 as a district record.
I want to say that Hy-tek Meet Manager automatically adds the 0 to the marks entered in the records menu unless you put the "h" designator in yourself. I just looked at the record sheet from one of my meets and quite a few of them have an "h" on them to keep that 0 from appearing.
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  #35  
Old 05-23-19, 12:23 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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BTW...fun fact about the record menu in HTMM...you can also use a "w" to indicate a wind-aided mark.
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  #36  
Old 05-23-19, 12:37 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
For those of you that were around "back in the day" that MT was all that there was, how common was it, particularly in sprints and sprint relays, for a lesser place to actually have a faster time than 1st place or any higher place? I would think that it would have been a fairly common occurrence. I've seen it happen plenty in open meets today where there is no FAT timing. For this reason alone I regard MTs very lightly and never compare a converted MT to FAT.
It still happens today at meets where the finish line crew times by lane rather than by place. Nearly all of us on here know itís a big ďno-no,Ē but I donít like telling other schools how they should operate their own meet. I only try to make sure the athletes were picked in the proper order for scoring purposes.
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  #37  
Old 05-23-19, 01:16 PM
madman madman is offline
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For our dual meets, it's hard enough to get people to volunteer. I initially tried to force them to time a place, but would get confused and we would have two people time the same person and no one would time the other person. I also had a declining pool of volunteers.

Even though it's not right, we do assign timers to lanes. However, our head timer records the order of finish (e.g. Lane 5, Lane2, Lane 6). If first place happens to have a slower time than 2nd and 3rd place, we keep the first place time and "adjust" 2nd and 3rd place. If it's really close, we might end up giving them all the same time to the nearest 10th.

The score is going to be correct even if the times aren't FAT quality.

Each year it's a battle to keep them from writing down times to the hundredth. I would never report those times to a newspaper, but it means unweaving a rug in the athletes mind and then on documentation sent out regarding the meet.
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  #38  
Old 05-23-19, 07:42 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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If you are hand timing a meet, which is perfectly find, I highly recommend getting Sprint Timer or another such timing app and taking video of each race finish. If you have a heat where you are not sure of the order of finish or if one of the timers is off you can look at the video. We use this method for our time trials at the start of the season.
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