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  #61  
Old 06-07-19, 12:11 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downtime View Post
Screw svsm
While I don't agree with the sentiment, I do admire the thoughtful intelligence that went into crafting this post.
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  #62  
Old 06-09-19, 01:04 PM
ndforever1967 ndforever1967 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Competitive Balance is out and here are the North Coast Blue Figures>

HOBAN
Male 10-12 Enrollment: 324
Competitive Balance #: 163
Total: 487
Div II

WALSH JESUIT
Male 10-12 Enrollment: 376
Competitive Balance #: 98
Total: 474
Div II

BENEDICTINE
Male 10-12 Enrollment: 261
Competitive Balance #: 149
Total: 410
Div II

PADUA
Male 10-12 Enrollment: 296
Competitive Balance #: 100
Total: 396
Div II

NDCL
Male 10-12 Enrollment: 254
Competitive Balance #: 52
Total: 306
Div III

LAKE CATHOLIC
Male 10-12 Enrollment: 203
Competitive Balance #: 45
Total: 248
Div IV

Some thoughts:

- Hoban has one of the biggest competitive balance numbers in the state regardless of Division, they are pulling in players from all over the place. Benny is not far behind.

- Benny and Padua kind of get lucky being placed in Div II. They are top heavy but all the suburban pubs that were dropped down from Div I into Div II seem to be struggling these days.

- Lake Catholic is shedding enrollment, it wasn't too long along ago they were solidly in Div II. Also that small competitive balance number means they are pulling in players from a limited number of feeder schools.

Considering the Hoban's overall male enrollment, their CB # is also high due to the large roster. Their true male enrollment probably puts them in D3, but their roster is at the D1 level.
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  #63  
Old 06-09-19, 01:48 PM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Has Hoban been moved to D1 yet?

under competitive balance measures?
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  #64  
Old 06-11-19, 09:35 AM
AkronAaron AkronAaron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsfan60 View Post
under competitive balance measures?
You have to have a Competitive Balance total of more than 592 to get into division I. Given Hoban's true enrollment of 324 boys, I don't know if that's possible. You'd need a multiplier more than 1.8 to get there, I don't think that's possible in the current system.

Hoban has a large CB adjustment (1.5), but even that puts them solidly in the middle of Division II.
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  #65  
Old 06-11-19, 09:46 AM
Redwing Redwing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkronAaron View Post
You have to have a Competitive Balance total of more than 592 to get into division I. Given Hoban's true enrollment of 324 boys, I don't know if that's possible. You'd need a multiplier more than 1.8 to get there, I don't think that's possible in the current system.

Hoban has a large CB adjustment (1.5), but even that puts them solidly in the middle of Division II.
Last year the number was 619 to be D1, they haven't listed what those numbers are yet for this year.
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  #66  
Old 06-11-19, 12:27 PM
AkronAaron AkronAaron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwing View Post
Last year the number was 619 to be D1, they haven't listed what those numbers are yet for this year.
This year's numbers were posted at https://www.ohsaa.org/Sports-Tournam...ol-Assignments a couple weeks ago.

Toledo Bowsher is the new 'smallest school in D1' with 592 after CB is applied.

I stand corrected above - it IS possible to get a multiplier higher than 1.8 in the current system. The highest multipliers of any school are Toledo Central Catholic with a 1.89 and Cleveland Hts. Lutheran East, with a multiplier of 1.76. Most other schools are far below those two for multipliers.

School with highest multiplier in each division:
1378 ST THOMAS AQUINAS Louisville 64 38 102 Division VII 1.59375
460 DAYTON CHRISTIAN Miamisburg 104 29 133 Division VI 1.278846154
912 LUTHERAN EAST Cleveland Hts 111 84 195 Division V 1.756756757
310 CARDINAL MOONEY Youngstown 149 73 222 Division IV 1.489932886
1384 ST VINCENT-ST MARY Akron 244 113 357 Division III 1.463114754
342 CENTRAL CATHOLIC Toledo 219 195 414 Division II 1.890410959
1346 ST EDWARD Lakewood 722 328 1050 Division I 1.454293629

Last edited by AkronAaron; 06-11-19 at 12:46 PM.
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  #67  
Old 06-11-19, 03:30 PM
cal cal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkronAaron View Post
This year's numbers were posted at https://www.ohsaa.org/Sports-Tournam...ol-Assignments a couple weeks ago.

Toledo Bowsher is the new 'smallest school in D1' with 592 after CB is applied.

I stand corrected above - it IS possible to get a multiplier higher than 1.8 in the current system. The highest multipliers of any school are Toledo Central Catholic with a 1.89 and Cleveland Hts. Lutheran East, with a multiplier of 1.76. Most other schools are far below those two for multipliers.

School with highest multiplier in each division:
1378 ST THOMAS AQUINAS Louisville 64 38 102 Division VII 1.59375
460 DAYTON CHRISTIAN Miamisburg 104 29 133 Division VI 1.278846154
912 LUTHERAN EAST Cleveland Hts 111 84 195 Division V 1.756756757
310 CARDINAL MOONEY Youngstown 149 73 222 Division IV 1.489932886
1384 ST VINCENT-ST MARY Akron 244 113 357 Division III 1.463114754
342 CENTRAL CATHOLIC Toledo 219 195 414 Division II 1.890410959
1346 ST EDWARD Lakewood 722 328 1050 Division I 1.454293629
I am sure there is a formula out there, somewhere, but how is CB determined?
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  #68  
Old 06-11-19, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal View Post
I am sure there is a formula out there, somewhere, but how is CB determined?
Not enough hours in a person's life to explain it all:

https://www.ohsaa.org/School-Resourc...esource-Center
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  #69  
Old 06-11-19, 09:23 PM
Redwing Redwing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkronAaron View Post
This year's numbers were posted at https://www.ohsaa.org/Sports-Tournam...ol-Assignments a couple weeks ago.

Toledo Bowsher is the new 'smallest school in D1' with 592 after CB is applied.

I stand corrected above - it IS possible to get a multiplier higher than 1.8 in the current system. The highest multipliers of any school are Toledo Central Catholic with a 1.89 and Cleveland Hts. Lutheran East, with a multiplier of 1.76. Most other schools are far below those two for multipliers.

School with highest multiplier in each division:
1378 ST THOMAS AQUINAS Louisville 64 38 102 Division VII 1.59375
460 DAYTON CHRISTIAN Miamisburg 104 29 133 Division VI 1.278846154
912 LUTHERAN EAST Cleveland Hts 111 84 195 Division V 1.756756757
310 CARDINAL MOONEY Youngstown 149 73 222 Division IV 1.489932886
1384 ST VINCENT-ST MARY Akron 244 113 357 Division III 1.463114754
342 CENTRAL CATHOLIC Toledo 219 195 414 Division II 1.890410959
1346 ST EDWARD Lakewood 722 328 1050 Division I 1.454293629
They released the individual schools' enrollment #'s, they haven't yet posted what the divisional assignment cut off #'s are.

https://www.ohsaa.org/School-Resourc...20-School-Year
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  #70  
Old 06-11-19, 09:28 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwing View Post
They released the individual schools' enrollment #'s, they haven't yet posted what the divisional assignment cut off #'s are.

https://www.ohsaa.org/School-Resourc...20-School-Year
They already have released divisional assignments, you can then see what the cutoffs are by looking through the highest and lowest of each division
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  #71  
Old 06-11-19, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwing View Post
They released the individual schools' enrollment #'s, they haven't yet posted what the divisional assignment cut off #'s are.

https://www.ohsaa.org/School-Resourc...20-School-Year
The divisional assignments were released last week. We're just waiting on the regional assignments.

https://www.ohsaa.org/Sports-Tournam.../Football-2019

I went through this very quickly, so forgive me for any mistakes I may have made:

Including Competitive Balance:
The smallest DI school is Toledo Bowsher at 592.
The smallest DII schools are both Alliance and Sylvania Southview at 378
The smallest DIII schools are both Cleveland Glenville and Vincent Warren at 269
The smallest DIV school is New Lexington at 208
The smallest DV schools are both Barnesville and Wickliffe at 159
The smallest DVI schools are both Howard East Knox and Fayetteville-Perry at 117
The smallest DVII school is Cincinnati Hillcrest Academy at 29

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 06-12-19 at 03:18 PM.
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  #72  
Old 06-12-19, 12:23 AM
nupanther nupanther is offline
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Wow.! Glenville D1 as recently as 2012. Now on the verge of being D4
Has any school dropped this fast before?
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  #73  
Old 06-12-19, 10:09 AM
C'Town216 C'Town216 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nupanther View Post
Wow.! Glenville D1 as recently as 2012. Now on the verge of being D4
Has any school dropped this fast before?


Thatís what happens when Glenville uses Ginn Academy kids that live outside the Glenville area and get busted for it.


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  #74  
Old 06-20-19, 09:33 PM
Football Fan 1 Football Fan 1 is offline
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Sounding like Padua, Lake Catholic and potentially VASJ will leave leave the NCL after the 2020 season.
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  #75  
Old 06-21-19, 05:14 AM
Hurricane525 Hurricane525 is offline
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That’s surprising to hear, as Padua and Lake, I believe, were both founding members of the NCL when it was formed in the 1980’s. Would Padua take a route similar to Holy Name? Where does Lake Catholic end up? The NCL seemed like a perfect fit for many schools.
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  #76  
Old 06-21-19, 07:13 AM
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Geographically, the Great Lakes Conference makes sense for Padua with the rest of the Parma schools. The CVC can replace Fairport beginning 2020, so maybe there is talk about making room for Lake Catholic?
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  #77  
Old 06-21-19, 07:32 AM
ideliver ideliver is offline
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Where would VASJ go??
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  #78  
Old 06-21-19, 07:39 AM
C'Town216 C'Town216 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ideliver View Post
Where would VASJ go??


Honestly a really good question, because they wouldnít venture off to the CVC just to get beat by Kirtland and Cuyahoga Hts in football, only logical would be if VASJ Lake CCC NDCL and Benedictine could form a league on their own.


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  #79  
Old 06-21-19, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football Fan 1 View Post
Sounding like Padua, Lake Catholic and potentially VASJ will leave leave the NCL after the 2020 season.
Very surprising if true as this means they are in all likely hood moving into Leagues with public schools which is a new development on the east side.

Padua could slide into that Great Lakes Conference easily and that makes sense but those schools in the CVC in the past have had issues with scheduling NCL schools let alone allowing a Lake or VASJ to full out join the League. Also, why Lake Catholic but not NDCL? Those two seem to be joined at the hip. But in the long run I think the real answer is to have Leagues on a per sport type basis. Take the current 4 teams in the upper division for basketball in the NCL and add SVSM, Iggy, & Ed's with home/home schedule and that is a heck of basketball conference. For baseball drop VASJ & CC and add Gilmour & NDCL and you have a solid baseball conference.
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  #80  
Old 06-21-19, 09:24 PM
reganaustinjames reganaustinjames is offline
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So if these 3 leave, this leaves NCL football with Benedictine, Hoban, NDCL, Walsh, Cleveland Central, Gilmour, and Warren JFK. That's... an odd grouping to say the very least, and it doesn't look like it can be sustainable.

Padua is a natural fit for the Great Lakes Conference, but that conference would need a 12th to balance things out and go to 2 divisions. I could see a "large" division of Lakewood and the 5 Parma schools, with Bay, Fairview, Rocky River, Buckeye, and EC comprising the "small" division along with whatever 12th school they get (I'd argue this grouping would be a much better fit for CCC than the existing NCL mentioned above).

Lake and VASJ are geographically perfect fits for the CVC, who needs 3 more to make 3 groupings of 8 (with Fairport leaving after this year). Question is... will their public neighbors be so accomodating?

The Youngstown area league have enough shifts, holes, and odd scheduling needs that Warren JFK can survive as an independent. Gilmour did too for years, so they can do so again. Gilmour could also go to the CVC-Metro and basically all but reform the late-90's MAC-8

The 4 NCL-Blue schools can all still schedule each other, St. V, and then whoever they can for their respective needs. Hoban can continue to make everyone question why they aren't in D1; Bene & NDCL can continue to schedule tough and make strides; and Walsh can schedule whatever low-rent D7 team they need to win at least one game a decade.

But if Padua, Lake, and VASJ depart, the writing is on the wall for the NCL
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  #81  
Old 06-22-19, 08:04 AM
C'Town216 C'Town216 is offline
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Here is a couple scenarios:
Scenario 1: VASJ and Lake leave NCL to join the CVC reuniting with Trinity in the league. Padua reunites with Holy Name and Elyria Catholic in the GLC considering they are the only west side school remaining in the NCL. That would leave CCC, Bene, NDCL, Hoban, Walsh, JFK, and Gilmour.

Scenario 2: Lake and VASJ leave NCL to form a new league and bring NDCL, Benedictine, Gilmour,and CCC with them. Extend invites to St.Edward and St.Ignatius

Format would be

Football/Other sports: Div A Lake, St.Ignatius, St.Edís, Benedictine
Div B VASJ, NDCL, CCC, and Gilmour

Basketball: Div A VASJ, St.Edís, St.Ignatius, CCC
Div B Lake, NDCL, Gilmour, and Benedictine

Girls version would be

Volleyball: Div A VASJ, Lake, NDCL, CCC
Div B Magnificat, St.Joseph Academy, Beaumont, Gilmour

Basketball/Other Sports: Div A Lake, CCC, SJA, Gilmour
Div B Magnificat, VASJ, NDCL, Beaumont




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  #82  
Old 06-24-19, 07:29 AM
Downtime Downtime is offline
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Word on the street is padua is leaving the ncl after this season
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  #83  
Old 06-24-19, 02:14 PM
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So if Padua leaves for the Great Lakes Conference and Lake Catholic leaves for the CVC what conferences could be a good fit and probability as a take for the remaining NCL Blue schools?

Benedictine:
Possibilities: Senate & Lake Erie League.
Benny has a decent mix of sports that the Senate doesn't even compete in or would be a big step down in comp, not a good fit. LEL might not be a bad option but Shaker Heights, Maple Heights, and Bedford would probably not be too receptive to seeing them in this League.

Hoban:
Possibilities: City Series & Suburban League American
Just like Benny and the Senate the City Series is really not a good fit due to the lack of teams outside of the core sports. The Suburban League American would be perfect but no way do those schools ever welcome Hoban into their League unless hard up for members.

NDCL:
Possibilities: CVC
So why does the CVC welcome Lake Catholic but not NDCL? It would make perfect sense to bring both in and move down a couple weaker schools from the Chagrin Division.

Walsh Jesuit:
Possibilities: Suburban League National
Talk about a no brainer geographically and competitively. But just like Hoban no way do those schools ever welcome Walsh into their League unless hard up for members.
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  #84  
Old 06-24-19, 02:28 PM
bengals wrestling bengals wrestling is offline
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From the end of the 1971-72 school year (when they left the Senate) until the beginning of the 2011-12 school year (when they joined the NCL), Benedictine was a independent. I have no problem, if the NCL folds, for Benedictine going back to being an independent.
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  #85  
Old 06-25-19, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
So if Padua leaves for the Great Lakes Conference and Lake Catholic leaves for the CVC what conferences could be a good fit and probability as a take for the remaining NCL Blue schools?

Benedictine:
Possibilities: Senate & Lake Erie League.
Benny has a decent mix of sports that the Senate doesn't even compete in or would be a big step down in comp, not a good fit. LEL might not be a bad option but Shaker Heights, Maple Heights, and Bedford would probably not be too receptive to seeing them in this League.

Hoban:
Possibilities: City Series & Suburban League American
Just like Benny and the Senate the City Series is really not a good fit due to the lack of teams outside of the core sports. The Suburban League American would be perfect but no way do those schools ever welcome Hoban into their League unless hard up for members.

NDCL:
Possibilities: CVC
So why does the CVC welcome Lake Catholic but not NDCL? It would make perfect sense to bring both in and move down a couple weaker schools from the Chagrin Division.

Walsh Jesuit:
Possibilities: Suburban League National
Talk about a no brainer geographically and competitively. But just like Hoban no way do those schools ever welcome Walsh into their League unless hard up for members.
I'm trying to figure out the GLC. If Padua is indeed moving there then they would have 11 schools beginning 2020 unless two of the Parma schools consolidate or another school is leaving the GLC (i.e. Fairview to the CVC Metro?). Would they consider having no OOC games for football? This would be the conference after this year:

Bay
Buckeye
Elyria Catholic
Fairview
Holy Name
Lakewood
Normandy
Padua
Parma
Rocky River
Valley Forge

Last edited by BlackandGold; 06-27-19 at 08:09 AM.
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  #86  
Old 06-27-19, 07:16 PM
allworld allworld is offline
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Padua can't join the GLC....Bridge has been burnt!!
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  #87  
Old 06-28-19, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
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Padua can't join the GLC....Bridge has been burnt!!
Then where would Padua go? The Southwestern Conference is rather large as it is and I just don't see those schools welcoming a private. No other Conference makes sense geographically so would they want to go Independent? Confusing times...
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  #88  
Old 06-28-19, 09:57 AM
the123kidz the123kidz is offline
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The NCL needs to man up and invite CVCA into the league. CVCA is competitive in most sports. The CVCA has a junior high excuse is weak. We actually have 6th-8th now. It's bizarre that VCA was admitted who is terrible is just about everything and doesn't field teams in some sports. It appears there is some fear that CVCA would be too competitive for the lower NCL tiers more than anything.
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  #89  
Old 06-28-19, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Then where would Padua go? The Southwestern Conference is rather large as it is and I just don't see those schools welcoming a private. No other Conference makes sense geographically so would they want to go Independent? Confusing times...
Maybe the LEL?
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  #90  
Old 06-28-19, 11:45 AM
C'Town216 C'Town216 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the123kidz View Post
The NCL needs to man up and invite CVCA into the league. CVCA is competitive in most sports. The CVCA has a junior high excuse is weak. We actually have 6th-8th now. It's bizarre that VCA was admitted who is terrible is just about everything and doesn't field teams in some sports. It appears there is some fear that CVCA would be too competitive for the lower NCL tiers more than anything.


Warren JFK also has a middle school attached to it as well and Gilmour is K-12. I donít see the issue regarding leaving CVCA out what so ever
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