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View Poll Results: Who will win each district in the DIV Bowling Green?
[Elida] Antwerp (Antwerp) 1 5.56%
[Elida] Ayersville (Defiance) 0 0%
[Elida] Continental (Continental) 0 0%
[Elida] Crestview (Convoy) 13 72.22%
[Elida] Fort Jennings (Fort Jennings) 0 0%
[Elida] Hicksville (Hicksville) 0 0%
[Elida] Lincolnview (Van Wert) 0 0%
[Elida] Ottoville (Ottoville) 0 0%
[Elida] Parkway (Rockford) 0 0%
[Elida] St John's (Delphos) 0 0%
[Elida] Wayne Trace (Haviland) 2 11.11%
[Findlay] Arcadia (Arcadia) 0 0%
[Findlay] Columbus Grove (Columbus Grove) 1 5.56%
[Findlay] Cory-Rawson (Rawson) 0 0%
[Findlay] Holgate (Holgate) 1 5.56%
[Findlay] Kalida (Kalida) 2 11.11%
[Findlay] Leipsic (Leipsic) 0 0%
[Findlay] Mc Comb (Mc Comb) 0 0%
[Findlay] Miller City (Miller City) 0 0%
[Findlay] North Baltimore (North Baltimore) 0 0%
[Findlay] Pandora-Gilboa (Pandora) 9 50.00%
[Findlay] Patrick Henry (Hamler) 0 0%
[Fostoria] Arlington (Arlington) 6 33.33%
[Fostoria] Calvert (Tiffin) 1 5.56%
[Fostoria] Hardin Northern (Dola) 0 0%
[Fostoria] Hopewell-Loudon (Bascom) 1 5.56%
[Fostoria] Mohawk (Sycamore) 0 0%
[Fostoria] New Riegel (New Riegel) 0 0%
[Fostoria] Old Fort (Tiffin) 1 5.56%
[Fostoria] Riverdale (Mt. Blanchard) 0 0%
[Fostoria] Seneca East (Attica) 0 0%
[Fostoria] St Joseph Central Catholic (Fremont) 3 16.67%
[Fostoria] Vanlue (Vanlue) 0 0%
[Napolean] Edgerton (Edgerton) 0 0%
[Napolean] Edon (Edon) 0 0%
[Napolean] Emmanuel Christian School (Toledo) 0 0%
[Napolean] Fayette (Fayette) 0 0%
[Napolean] Hilltop (West Unity) 1 5.56%
[Napolean] Maumee Valley Country Day (Toledo) 2 11.11%
[Napolean] Montpelier (Montpelier) 0 0%
[Napolean] North Central (Pioneer) 0 0%
[Napolean] Ottawa Hills (Toledo) 0 0%
[Napolean] Pettisville (Pettisville) 6 33.33%
[Napolean] Stryker (Stryker) 1 5.56%
[Napolean] Toledo Christian (Toledo) 3 16.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 03-10-18, 08:20 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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I think it might be more a matter that suburbanization and urban school flight have saturated the larger schools' talent pools and players are seeing opportunity at lower levels are equal, in basketball anyhow. That plus some recent coaching changes could account for the emergence of the TAAC. How far they have emerged of course, still a week or so from determination.
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  #62  
Old 03-10-18, 08:31 AM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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Most years the TAAC had 2 quality teams and some others striving to get there. This year they had 4 quality teams, 2 others that were pretty average small school teams and 2 that struggled big time. I'm not sure that isn't similar to the make up of most leagues.

I do agree that the TAAC needs to break through in the tournament to earn respect through out the region. Playing top teams in the regular season can help too.

Maumee Valley vs Defending state champs Wellington, and D1 Bowsher
TC vs Anthony Wayne
Stritch vs Mansfield St. Pete, Cornerstone and D1 Central
Ottawa Hills vs Archbold

I'm sure there are others from the last 2 years, but the TAAC needs a lot more of these games and will have openings on their schedule with Gibsonburg and Danbury leaving.
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  #63  
Old 03-10-18, 08:49 AM
boater boater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
I think it might be more a matter that suburbanization and urban school flight have saturated the larger schools' talent pools and players are seeing opportunity at lower levels are equal, in basketball anyhow. That plus some recent coaching changes could account for the emergence of the TAAC. How far they have emerged of course, still a week or so from determination.
Not really - not since the late 80's early 90's has a Lucas county team won a championship. Scott lead by Ben Williams ( more success imo than the johnies and heintzel ) in '91 won the d1 title was the last Lucas county school won? Even with the great players that have played in Lucas county the Lima area( Allen county) has the same number of mr. Basketball winners.

Honestly St. John's has been an underachiever if you look at the talent they've had with no titles?
Williams with Scott , as I recall had his teams in C- bus as much in total in appearances or darn close but brought home the hardware!
In my opinion Toledo/ Lucas county was a force in basketball in the late 70's till early 90's but overall the Lima area has had much more success .
Look at d2 & d3 just o- G and LCC in the last 15 years and the titles just those 2 schools have - and the tcl , TAAC , NLL, and the trac ( or going back to the GLL days) can't compare?

Last edited by boater; 03-10-18 at 09:04 AM.
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  #64  
Old 03-10-18, 09:20 AM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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In a 1 and done tournament the "best" team doesn't always win state. So judging only on State Championships is deceiving.
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  #65  
Old 03-10-18, 09:27 AM
boater boater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalls View Post
Most years the TAAC had 2 quality teams and some others striving to get there. This year they had 4 quality teams, 2 others that were pretty average small school teams and 2 that struggled big time. I'm not sure that isn't similar to the make up of most leagues.

I do agree that the TAAC needs to break through in the tournament to earn respect through out the region. Playing top teams in the regular season can help too.

Maumee Valley vs Defending state champs Wellington, and D1 Bowsher
TC vs Anthony Wayne
Stritch vs Mansfield St. Pete, Cornerstone and D1 Central
Ottawa Hills vs Archbold

I'm sure there are others from the last 2 years, but the TAAC needs a lot more of these games and will have openings on their schedule with Gibsonburg and Danbury leaving.
I think your last line identified the larger issue best. If the TAAC wins a regional championship that will give the league more "credibility". Raising their regular season schedules - even if they lose would prepare them better in the second season! Plus I don't discount the opportunity this league has in front of them in that it is conceivable they get 2 regional titles this year...but based upon their history - they may only have 1 team playing in the regional ( Cardinal Stritch must beat Archbold - not an easy task ) then play up to win in a tough BG regional in both divisions 3&4 and I don't see them as the favorites in either at this point.
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  #66  
Old 03-10-18, 09:28 AM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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St. Johns multiple
Whitmer multiple
Rogers mutiple
Libbey
Central

Have all made it down to state recently (meaning those former players don't look like old men yet). Most at the D1 level which most years is night and day different than the lower levels.
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  #67  
Old 03-10-18, 09:32 AM
boater boater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalls View Post
In a 1 and done tournament the "best" team doesn't always win state. So judging only on State Championships is deceiving.
Thats one way to rationalize it - the other is - is the facts.... Since the last title was 1991 you'd think one school in Lucas county would have accomplished this?

Unless you prescribe to the we are happy to be here and everyone gets a ribbon philosophy.

I'm not trying to be a smart azz but when I looked at this - it surprised me...
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  #68  
Old 03-10-18, 09:42 AM
boater boater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalls View Post
St. Johns multiple
Whitmer multiple
Rogers mutiple
Libbey
Central

Have all made it down to state recently (meaning those former players don't look like old men yet). Most at the D1 level which most years is night and day different than the lower levels.
Yes but all things being equal no titles? And if you look at WBL schools as one example a primarily d2 league they play up in regular season schedules.
Results 2 d2 state titles and 2 d3 in the last 15 years.
Finally compare Toledo to Dayton similar in size in metro areas - Kettering Alter,Dunbar, hunter heights Wayne and Dayton Jefferson all have titles in recent years. Apples to apples in a better comparison for you.


Those are hard to ignore

Last edited by boater; 03-10-18 at 10:12 AM.
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  #69  
Old 03-10-18, 10:18 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boater View Post
Yes but all things being equal no titles? And if you look at WBL schools as one example a primarily d2 league they play up in regular season schedules.
Results 2 d2 state titles and 2 d3 in the last 15 years.
Finally compare Toledo to Dayton similar in size in metro areas - Kettering Alter,Dunbar, hunter heights Wayne and Dayton Jefferson all have titles in recent years. Apples to apples in a better comparison for you.


Those are hard to ignore
Consider Ottawa Glandorf...at team that's in the Regional almost every year...with 3 state titles in the last 14 years. They are the only D3 school in the always competitive Western Buckeye League. This year's schedule

3 D1's...Liima Senior, Pburg and Findlay

12 D2

6 D3

1 D4

Compare that to Stritch.....for example....or Genoa or even Archbold. There's no doubting that a tough regular season helps come tourney time
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  #70  
Old 03-10-18, 10:20 AM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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Don't compare D2 and 3 to D1. Not even the same game.
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  #71  
Old 03-10-18, 10:25 AM
boater boater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalls View Post
Don't compare D2 and 3 to D1. Not even the same game.
In football I agree, in basketball - not as much . Look at CS's signature win this year - Cornerstone who beat Garfield Heights- there are exceptions in basketball .
Just sayin !
Oh I got plenty more ASVSM, VASJ, and on and on .....



But than we are back to the original argument in that the TAAC could be better if they schedule up in the regular season.
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  #72  
Old 03-10-18, 10:40 AM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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All those NWO teams you mention are very good for the level they play, but would not have won a D1 state championship. So does that mean they they weren't any good by definition?

I love small school basketball, but my eyes don't deceive me. No NWO small school team would have beat the D1 Toledo teams that made it to State and are a failure by your definition.
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  #73  
Old 03-10-18, 10:54 AM
boater boater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalls View Post
All those NWO teams you mention are very good for the level they play, but would not have won a D1 state championship. So does that mean they they weren't any good by definition?

I love small school basketball, but my eyes don't deceive me. No NWO small school team would have beat the D1 Toledo teams that made it to State and are a failure by your definition.
Actually it hasn't happened because you don't see them scheduled. But st Francis did play O-G off their state championship season then got beat by the Titans. AW did schedule O-G for two years, then dropped them, why ?
Plus back in early 2000's their was a solid argument from coaches I talked to that would have loved to see the johnies play O-G in that it would have been the most competitive game at that time in NW Ohio. Year in and out a D1 school is going to have the advantage - no question. Plus Lima senior has had equally as good if not better teams over the years than the ones you've listed - and overall'historically. This year wauseon has an excellent d2 team , off a state runner up team from last year with most back- how would you assess they'd do in the NLL or trac? St. John's would beat them in my opinion but I think it would be a great game to see.
One final note they are what they were - but they didn't win championships and in comparison Ben Williams did win at Scott, and made the final 4 multiple times, so in my thinking he is better than Heintschel at St. John's . Just my way of looking at it you can define it any way you wish. Same with Macomber , st Francis and the teams that have won titles. Nice program , some great seasons but that's it.

Last edited by boater; 03-10-18 at 11:09 AM.
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  #74  
Old 03-10-18, 11:11 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Originally Posted by boater View Post
Actually it hasn't happened because you don't see them scheduled. But st Francis did play O-G off their state championship season then got beat by the Titans. AW did schedule O-G for two years, then dropped them, why ?
Plus back in early 2000's their was a solid argument from coaches I talked to that would have loved to see the johnies play O-G in that it would have been the most competitive game at that time in NW Ohio. Year in and out a D1 school is going to have the advantage - no question. Plus Lima senior has had equally as good if not better teams over the years than the ones you've listed - and overall'historically. This year wauseon has an excellent d2 team , off a state runner up team from last year with most back- how would you assess they'd do in the NLL or trac? St. John's would beat them in my opinion but I think it would be a great game to see.
Boater....I don' think he was necessarily talking about OG...or even Wauseon....I think he meant your original list of what was mostly D4 schools. I don't think anyone would argue that OG could have played with a the Toledo schools a lot of years. Wauseon in the TRAC? C'mon....they have had 2 good years, but D2 in NW Ohio has been really down both of them. I don't think you can start considering Wauseon a perennial power just yet...

This has gotten way off topic....which is BG D4 regional....getting back to that, I think it's Crestview's regional to lose....though based on their tourney run so far, they just might end up doing that. I really think that MVCD has a shot....only because they seem the only team that will be at BG that is capable of scoring more than 45 points in a game right now
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  #75  
Old 03-10-18, 11:17 AM
boater boater is offline
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agreed - and back to this thread MVCD has a shot, but the crestview is still my pick to make it to Columbus
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  #76  
Old 03-10-18, 11:46 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by boater View Post
Not really - not since the late 80's early 90's has a Lucas county team won a championship. Scott lead by Ben Williams ( more success imo than the johnies and heintzel ) in '91 won the d1 title was the last Lucas county school won? Even with the great players that have played in Lucas county the Lima area( Allen county) has the same number of mr. Basketball winners.

Honestly St. John's has been an underachiever if you look at the talent they've had with no titles?
Williams with Scott , as I recall had his teams in C- bus as much in total in appearances or darn close but brought home the hardware!
In my opinion Toledo/ Lucas county was a force in basketball in the late 70's till early 90's but overall the Lima area has had much more success .
Look at d2 & d3 just o- G and LCC in the last 15 years and the titles just those 2 schools have - and the tcl , TAAC , NLL, and the trac ( or going back to the GLL days) can't compare?
Lima I suspect has nothing to do with the TAAC. DI Toledo didn't play D3-4 Lima. We're discussing the currect level of TAAC play, where it is at and how it got there.

What are you talking about?

Last edited by eastisbest; 03-10-18 at 01:14 PM.
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  #77  
Old 03-10-18, 12:10 PM
Smalls Smalls is offline
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Wauseon in the NLL would be 1st or 2nd. They played 2 tight games vs Southview and Anthony Wayne. I think they would lose 1 or 2 games. The NLL doesn't have any state caliber teams.....maybe ever.

In the TRAC they would be 2nd -4th, but would lose 4 games. Twice to St. John's, split with Whitmer and St. Francis.

That said the TRAC is down from a typical year. Not nearly the number of horses playing in the league as normal.
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  #78  
Old 03-10-18, 01:14 PM
boater boater is offline
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[QUOTE=eastisbest;7006533]Lima I suspect has nothing to do with the TAAC. DI Toledo didn't play D3-4 Lima. Where discussing the currect level of TAAC play, where it is at and how it got there.

What are you talking about?[pp

That even though as you have said urban flight has taken place with the demise of TPS it hasn't translated to the TAAC . Nor to any of the NLL schools.
Historically the TAAC hasn't done as well as Lima area teams. Putnam county and van wert county teams have dominated d4 specifically in the NW regional play.
The rest of my rant was In Respect to any Lucas county school to win a title since Scott in '91 ...Sorry to get off topic.
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  #79  
Old 03-10-18, 01:16 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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[QUOTE=boater;7006580]
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Lima I suspect has nothing to do with the TAAC. DI Toledo didn't play D3-4 Lima. Where discussing the currect level of TAAC play, where it is at and how it got there.

What are you talking about?[pp

That even though as you have said urban flight has taken place with the demise of TPS it hasn't translated to the TAAC . Nor to any of the NLL schools. .
Well, you didn't actually mention any of that. If you had, I'd instead have posted .
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  #80  
Old 03-10-18, 01:25 PM
boater boater is offline
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[QUOTE=eastisbest;7006583]
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Originally Posted by boater View Post
Well, you didn't actually mention any of that. If you had, I'd instead have posted .
Probably because you didn't read my last post on the previous page that sums it up pretty well?
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  #81  
Old 03-10-18, 03:54 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Probably because you didn't read my last post on the previous page that sums it up pretty well?
I read the one you posted quoting mine.
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  #82  
Old 03-10-18, 05:08 PM
boater boater is offline
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
I read the one you posted quoting mine.
No issues here just a pair of old guys muddling through this .....
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  #83  
Old 03-10-18, 05:49 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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No issues here just a pair of old guys muddling through this .....
You're old?

I'm barely into double digits.
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  #84  
Old 03-10-18, 10:39 PM
CCA Fan CCA Fan is offline
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May I ask a question with all respect intended

Two years ago Lincoln View came out of the NW in D4, entering the state finals with a 26-1 record. They had virtually no 3 point game and their number one option was a strong young man but only 6'3" in the post. The hanibal or manibal, maybe chanibal, I digress, but I can't remember his nickname.

I thought it was a really weak representation in the state. Please, no offense intended. How does Crestview or other NW D4 teams compare to the 2016 Lancers?
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  #85  
Old 03-11-18, 03:11 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by CCA Fan View Post
Two years ago Lincoln View came out of the NW in D4, entering the state finals with a 26-1 record. They had virtually no 3 point game and their number one option was a strong young man but only 6'3" in the post. The hanibal or manibal, maybe chanibal, I digress, but I can't remember his nickname.

I thought it was a really weak representation in the state. Please, no offense intended. How does Crestview or other NW D4 teams compare to the 2016 Lancers?
Lopsided finals in DIV doesn't seem all that unusual. Crestview themselves won it a few years ago over St Thomas Aquinas by about 30 pts. Different regions in the small schools, not a lot of in-season games with other regions so your question can be hard to answer with evidence.
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  #86  
Old 03-12-18, 08:28 AM
thereckoning thereckoning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCA Fan View Post
Two years ago Lincoln View came out of the NW in D4, entering the state finals with a 26-1 record. They had virtually no 3 point game and their number one option was a strong young man but only 6'3" in the post. The hanibal or manibal, maybe chanibal, I digress, but I can't remember his nickname.

I thought it was a really weak representation in the state. Please, no offense intended. How does Crestview or other NW D4 teams compare to the 2016 Lancers?
To answer your question, Crestview has far superior talent to Lincolnview that year. Lincolnview beat a young Crestview team (many of which are playing as juniors and seniors this year) in a last second thriller in Districts and then cruised through regionals into state that year. That was just a very very well coached and senior laden Lincolnview team that was on a mission. Comparison? Crestview has D1 talent on the floor and six kids 6-1 or bigger (up to 6-8). They also have kids that have been in the tourney for three plus years and played alot of minutes in it.

As a NW Ohio fan and D4 fan in general, this Crestview team is one of the most talented I've seen play in the past 20 years from the NWO area.
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  #87  
Old 03-12-18, 09:21 AM
boater boater is offline
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To answer your question, Crestview has far superior talent to Lincolnview that year. Lincolnview beat a young Crestview team (many of which are playing as juniors and seniors this year) in a last second thriller in Districts and then cruised through regionals into state that year. That was just a very very well coached and senior laden Lincolnview team that was on a mission. Comparison? Crestview has D1 talent on the floor and six kids 6-1 or bigger (up to 6-8). They also have kids that have been in the tourney for three plus years and played alot of minutes in it.

As a NW Ohio fan and D4 fan in general, this Crestview team is one of the most talented I've seen play in the past 20 years from the NWO area.
Pretty high praise- now lets see if they live up to your expectations ?

97 - Lincolnview was a special team runner up in "96 then in '97 State Champs
2000 Fort Jennings = State champs
2002 Delphos St John's was runner up the previous year then state champs
2004 Holgate is tough to compare - as they REALLY slowed it down - state champ
2014 - your own ( I assume) Crestview team that was undefeated - state champs

So where would you rank them in this group of State champs over the past 20 years out of NW Ohio- I am curious?
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  #88  
Old 03-12-18, 10:50 AM
thereckoning thereckoning is offline
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Not my "own" per say, but I have connections to a few NWC schools.

By the naked eye, I would put them #2 on the list.

97 Lincolnview
18 Knights
14 Knights
00 Fort Jennings
02 St Johns
04 Holgate

I would also include the 96 Lancers, the 03 Knights, and several years of Wayne Trace in there (including the 03 WT team that gave Lebron all he could handle).
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  #89  
Old 03-12-18, 11:02 AM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Not my "own" per say, but I have connections to a few NWC schools.

By the naked eye, I would put them #2 on the list.

97 Lincolnview
18 Knights
14 Knights
00 Fort Jennings
02 St Johns
04 Holgate

I would also include the 96 Lancers, the 03 Knights, and several years of Wayne Trace in there (including the 03 WT team that gave Lebron all he could handle).
WT played Lebron in '01.....OG played the Irish in '02 and '03 both at UT. Wayne Trace was D3 that year....all of the others on this list were D4. If you're going to include WT then you need to include OG too ...and this list becomes a whole lot different lol but that's a different topic. At this point, I think Crestvew needs to finish this season before you can put them above some of those state championship teams....especially after the tourney debacle agaiinst Parkway a couple weeks ago...that almost ended all this talk right then
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  #90  
Old 03-12-18, 11:38 AM
Cooter26 Cooter26 is offline
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Originally Posted by Smalls View Post
Wauseon in the NLL would be 1st or 2nd. They played 2 tight games vs Southview and Anthony Wayne. I think they would lose 1 or 2 games. The NLL doesn't have any state caliber teams.....maybe ever.

In the TRAC they would be 2nd -4th, but would lose 4 games. Twice to St. John's, split with Whitmer and St. Francis.

That said the TRAC is down from a typical year. Not nearly the number of horses playing in the league as normal.
I attended the southview/wauseon game & Wauseon was up by 20 with a minute left in the 3rd. Southview wasn't within single digits until the final minute of the game.

But I would think Wauseon splits with St. John's. My explanation, The lineup and bench they have now beat Columbus Eastmoor, & Eastmoor beat Detroit De Lasalle Collegiate, & De Lasalle be St. John's 68-51. But Wauseon did scrimmage St. John's this year and it was close, even without rotroff.
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