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View Poll Results: Who wins?
Cincinnati Moeller by 1-10 20 48.78%
Cincinnati Moeller by 11-20 11 26.83%
Cincinnati Moeller by 21+ 1 2.44%
Springfield by 1-10 9 21.95%
Springfield by 11-20 0 0%
Springfield by 21+ 0 0%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-10-18, 11:12 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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DI Dayton Regional Semifinal: Cincinnati Moeller (23-3) vs Springfield (21-4)

DI Dayton Regional Semifinal: Cincinnati Moeller (23-3) vs Springfield (21-4)

Who wins?
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  #2  
Old 03-10-18, 11:33 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Moe by double digits.
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  #3  
Old 03-10-18, 11:37 PM
buckeye1689 buckeye1689 is offline
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I'll go with Big Moe in the 5-10 range. Springfield will give them all they want and then some
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  #4  
Old 03-11-18, 12:14 AM
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CFIK CFIK is offline
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If the Cats don't find a better offensive rhythm than they had against Elder, or than they had when these two met 5 weeks ago, Moe will win handily again.

Moe's size and poise was too much for Springfield in that first matchup. The Cats had both Hayes and Davenport in foul trouble and that helped keep the game tight for 27 minutes, but Moe pulled away with a 17-4 run the last 5 minutes to win by 17. The Cats played well defensively until that late run, but just had no rhythm on offense.

This will be the sixth game between the two in the last 4 years. Moe has won the last 3, and prior to the 17 margin this season the previous 4 were decided by a 6 points or less.

The Cats will fight, hopefully with some offensive rhythm.

GO CATS!!!!!!!
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  #5  
Old 03-11-18, 09:12 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFIK View Post
If the Cats don't find a better offensive rhythm than they had against Elder, or than they had when these two met 5 weeks ago, Moe will win handily again.

Moe's size and poise was too much for Springfield in that first matchup. The Cats had both Hayes and Davenport in foul trouble and that helped keep the game tight for 27 minutes, but Moe pulled away with a 17-4 run the last 5 minutes to win by 17. The Cats played well defensively until that late run, but just had no rhythm on offense.

This will be the sixth game between the two in the last 4 years. Moe has won the last 3, and prior to the 17 margin this season the previous 4 were decided by a 6 points or less.

The Cats will fight, hopefully with some offensive rhythm.

GO CATS!!!!!!!
Did Moeller use zone when the two teams met earlier in the year?

The Elder zone really slowed Springfield down and forced them into shooting 3's. Springfield was hot early, but after jumping to a double digit first quarter lead, Elder controlled the game. The zone also prevented Springfield from getting 2nd shots. Often no one from Springfield was even in the lane to rebound???

Elder shot VERY well from the line and Harp from outside to make it closer than most thought possible. Springfield's obvious problem is Moe is significantly better in every facet than Elder.
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  #6  
Old 03-11-18, 06:01 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Springfield did not play very well last night against Elder, and quite frankly, they got out coached pretty badly in a game where they had both superior talent and depth. They let Elder dictate pace for most of the night with their zone when Elder was an opponent they should have been able to speed up and run on in spurts with their various pressing defenses. Mike Wallace bailed them out by making a couple big plays at the end that helped them survive what should have safely been a 15 point win.

The biggest key for Springfield IMO is Taylor staying out of foul trouble. I thought his long spurt on the bench in the second half hurt them badly against Elder. They really struggled to rebound in that stretch. Should Moeller zone it some they have to generate better ball movement. For playing a less athletic team in Elder, Springfield looked highly unprepared to play against a rather predictable 1-2-2/3-2 zone defense geared to reduce dribble penetration.



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  #7  
Old 03-11-18, 06:15 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I like Moeller by double digits. The only way this is close IMO is if Moe plays straight man and both Taylor and Towns make some perimeter shots for Springfield, stretching the defense to guard those bigs on the perimeter and opening up the paint for Moss and Co. to attack off the dribble.

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  #8  
Old 03-12-18, 07:57 AM
Zezzo! Zezzo! is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
Springfield did not play very well last night against Elder, and quite frankly, they got out coached pretty badly in a game where they had both superior talent and depth. They let Elder dictate pace for most of the night with their zone when Elder was an opponent they should have been able to speed up and run on in spurts with their various pressing defenses. Mike Wallace bailed them out by making a couple big plays at the end that helped them survive what should have safely been a 15 point win.

The biggest key for Springfield IMO is Taylor staying out of foul trouble. I thought his long spurt on the bench in the second half hurt them badly against Elder. They really struggled to rebound in that stretch. Should Moeller zone it some they have to generate better ball movement. For playing a less athletic team in Elder, Springfield looked highly unprepared to play against a rather predictable 1-2-2/3-2 zone defense geared to reduce dribble penetration.



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Can you please explain strategically, in your opinion, how they were outcoached?
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  #9  
Old 03-12-18, 10:02 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezzo! View Post
Can you please explain strategically, in your opinion, how they were outcoached?
They allowed Elder to control the pace and flow of the game, and beyond the occasional possession, never really made adjustments to take Elder out of their comfort zone offensively and defensively.

Based on personnel, Elder had to have a slower game with fewer possessions to have a chance. More possessions = higher probability of a 'Cats win, and by a larger margin. More possessions required more extended court defensive pressure and more hard run out transition trips on half-court stops and made baskets to scramble Elder's defense before they could set their zone.

I found the lack of zone offensive execution to be troublesome. Elder spent a ton of time in a 1-2-2/3-2 zone, which is the most predictable zone defense for a team with lesser athletes to run at this level as it allows all five defenders to guard against dribble penetration.

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  #10  
Old 03-12-18, 11:00 AM
xscoutsoc xscoutsoc is offline
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After reading this thread, I'm not sure I read the score right. Springfield beat Elder, right?

I'm expecting a game much closer than the first match-up and Springfield pulling out the upset. That's my full analysis.
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  #11  
Old 03-12-18, 11:06 AM
Zezzo! Zezzo! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
They allowed Elder to control the pace and flow of the game, and beyond the occasional possession, never really made adjustments to take Elder out of their comfort zone offensively and defensively.

Based on personnel, Elder had to have a slower game with fewer possessions to have a chance. More possessions = higher probability of a 'Cats win, and by a larger margin. More possessions required more extended court defensive pressure and more hard run out transition trips on half-court stops and made baskets to scramble Elder's defense before they could set their zone.

I found the lack of zone offensive execution to be troublesome. Elder spent a ton of time in a 1-2-2/3-2 zone, which is the most predictable zone defense for a team with lesser athletes to run at this level as it allows all five defenders to guard against dribble penetration.

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I believe Elder had a good game plan to slow Springfield down which gave them a better chance of winning by defensively shrinking the floor by not extending and mixing their zone defenses but packing it in, they did not come above the three point line, which closed driving lanes for Springfield. That caused Springfield to settle for three's. Carson made adjustments by overloading at times which gave them numerous baseline layups and by Moss ending up on the wing driving the seams and by placing him at the hi-post in which he scored all his points from both spots on the court and made plays in the half court set, Elder did not have an answer for that. Carson found ways to get his best player the ball.
Lenny Taylor sat a lot in the 3rdQ and most of the 4thQ. He maintains the continuity for Springfield and he's their best rebounder, that hurt Sfield on the boards and in their initial zone offense. As far as pressure, Springfield pressured in the final minute of the game which caused 2 big turnovers and sealed the deal. Elder's coach has been there more than once he's won a state championship before they're a traditional state power, he knows how to prepare his team for game like that. Elder is a tough out for anybody come tourney time. But IMO to say he outcoached Carson is inaccurate. I think it was well coached on both sides. Springfield wasn't gonna win that game by more than 10 points.
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  #12  
Old 03-12-18, 12:32 PM
catscatscats catscatscats is offline
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Maybe we shouldnt even show up to Cintas. Moeller is very good probably best team in state but trust Cats will not back down anything can happen in tourney
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  #13  
Old 03-12-18, 02:49 PM
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I remember a few years back and undersized and undermanned Trotwood team went up against Mighty Moe and came from 10 + down in the fourth quarter and won that game and moved on to Columbus. This is the Regional man. Everybody should have a chance! Springfield will too.

My recommendation..Don't settle for the 3's. Let Moss work Free throw line in and try and get the Big Boy in Foul trouble.. Taylor, gotta be a presence on offense in the paint a little more too. I think the Cats have the talent, guard play is a wash. It's the front line that I think win's this game. Moss and Taylor vs. Davenport and the freakish Hayes (he is a future pro).

Last edited by member1; 03-12-18 at 03:00 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-12-18, 09:44 PM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
I remember a few years back and undersized and undermanned Trotwood team went up against Mighty Moe and came from 10 + down in the fourth quarter and won that game and moved on to Columbus. This is the Regional man. Everybody should have a chance! Springfield will too.

My recommendation..Don't settle for the 3's. Let Moss work Free throw line in and try and get the Big Boy in Foul trouble.. Taylor, gotta be a presence on offense in the paint a little more too. I think the Cats have the talent, guard play is a wash. It's the front line that I think win's this game. Moss and Taylor vs. Davenport and the freakish Hayes (he is a future pro).
I only watched Moeller once, versus LaSalle, on television, and the big guy did not get in foul trouble. He makes blocking shots look easy. I wonder if he ever got in foul trouble throughout the season.
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  #15  
Old 03-13-18, 05:23 AM
Spartan pride Spartan pride is offline
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If moeller get in trouble they’ll run stall ball and win!
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  #16  
Old 03-13-18, 07:11 AM
Kballer Kballer is online now
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Originally Posted by HardCorps View Post
I only watched Moeller once, versus LaSalle, on television, and the big guy did not get in foul trouble. He makes blocking shots look easy. I wonder if he ever got in foul trouble throughout the season.
Hayes only fouled out twice all season, but once was against Springfield.
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  #17  
Old 03-13-18, 08:45 AM
bigv bigv is offline
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Originally Posted by HardCorps View Post
I only watched Moeller once, versus LaSalle, on television, and the big guy did not get in foul trouble. He makes blocking shots look easy. I wonder if he ever got in foul trouble throughout the season.
He had four points and five fouls against Springfield
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  #18  
Old 03-13-18, 11:07 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Spartan pride View Post
If moeller get in trouble theyíll run stall ball and win!
I've actually wondered about how effective they'd be at that this year. I've had conversations with a few other coaching buddies before about the thought that perhaps you can have too many horses to play that way for big stretches in a game. "Stall ball" has seemingly been the GCL way for a long time, but has Moeller really had to play that way against anyone this year? What's their record been like in games where the score's been in the 40s and low 50s?

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  #19  
Old 03-13-18, 11:28 AM
Vike16 Vike16 is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
I've actually wondered about how effective they'd be at that this year. I've had conversations with a few other coaching buddies before about the thought that perhaps you can have too many horses to play that way for big stretches in a game. "Stall ball" has seemingly been the GCL way for a long time, but has Moeller really had to play that way against anyone this year? What's their record been like in games where the score's been in the 40s and low 50s?

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I could be wrong. But I think they beaten every team from Ohio by 12 or more points
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  #20  
Old 03-13-18, 11:33 AM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
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Hayes only fouled out twice all season, but once was against Springfield.
Hmmm. Interesting. Of course we know that Coach Kremer and his team are working diligently on this.
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  #21  
Old 03-13-18, 11:39 AM
Vox Crusada Vox Crusada is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
I've actually wondered about how effective they'd be at that this year. I've had conversations with a few other coaching buddies before about the thought that perhaps you can have too many horses to play that way for big stretches in a game. "Stall ball" has seemingly been the GCL way for a long time, but has Moeller really had to play that way against anyone this year? What's their record been like in games where the score's been in the 40s and low 50s?

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All 3 Moe losses were below 60 point games. All to out of state teams, including Cov Cath (really Moe?)
Moe has 5 wins under 60 points, including 16 point wins over Springfield and Elder (who lost by 1 to Springfield).
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  #22  
Old 03-13-18, 11:46 AM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
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Originally Posted by bigv View Post
He had four points and five fouls against Springfield
When teams play in the gcl or the gmc, which are seemingly down this year, it can be a rude awakening when you play an athletic, well coached team such as Wayne, Springfield, and some of the teams from Columbus.

Thanks, for the reply.
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  #23  
Old 03-13-18, 12:54 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by HardCorps View Post
When teams play in the gcl or the gmc, which are seemingly down this year, it can be a rude awakening when you play an athletic, well coached team such as Wayne, Springfield, and some of the teams from Columbus.

Thanks, for the reply.
Not only is Moe well coached, they are athletic enough to have success playing different styles.
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  #24  
Old 03-13-18, 01:41 PM
Kballer Kballer is online now
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This whole "stall ball" discussion is moot- clearly mentioned by someone who hasn't seen this team. Even when GCL teams have utilized a very deliberate, clock draining offensive strategy, it never even approached the nearly 9 minutes that Dunbar stood there holding the ball. Just sayin!
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  #25  
Old 03-13-18, 04:26 PM
deuces dad deuces dad is offline
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[QUOTE=Vox Crusada;7008901]All 3 Moe losses were below 60 point games. All to out of state teams, including Cov Cath (really Moe?)

Moe struggled with the size and physical toughness of Cov Cath. I believe they have as many if not more college prospects as does Moe.
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  #26  
Old 03-13-18, 06:56 PM
nd31 miami 30 nd31 miami 30 is offline
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Iíll take Kraemerís barnstorming (Cincinnati and the surrounding area) all-stars by 10 or so.
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  #27  
Old 03-13-18, 09:31 PM
Kballer Kballer is online now
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[QUOTE=deuces dad;7009103]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Crusada View Post
All 3 Moe losses were below 60 point games. All to out of state teams, including Cov Cath (really Moe?)

Moe struggled with the size and physical toughness of Cov Cath. I believe they have as many if not more college prospects as does Moe.
Cov Catholic is a special team with some great players- about even on the future college level players I feel. The advantages they had were more returning starters and obviously home court. CJ was definitely the best player on the court. Moeller has definitely improved since that game.
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  #28  
Old 03-14-18, 05:26 AM
Vox Crusada Vox Crusada is offline
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Quote:
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He had four points and five fouls against Springfield
And Moeller still won by 16 points in a game that didnít break 60!
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  #29  
Old 03-14-18, 08:19 AM
bigv bigv is offline
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And Moeller still won by 16 points in a game that didnít break 60!
????????
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  #30  
Old 03-14-18, 09:33 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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????????
Moe's size and poise was too much for Springfield in that first matchup. The Cats had both Hayes and Davenport in foul trouble and that helped keep the game tight for 27 minutes, but Moe pulled away with a 17-4 run the last 5 minutes to win by 17.
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