Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > General Sports > Major League Baseball

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #2671  
Old 08-07-17, 12:52 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-12-12
Posts: 4,067
14Red is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Exactly what? If you actually go back, you'll see I was responding to 14red's challenge to find a better value/production proposition than Cozart. I just pointed out that Didi was a better value, slightly better batting statistics, pretty equal fielding, 4 yrs younger and far better upside than Cozart....and also noted the Reds made a bad trade choosing Cozart over him for those very reasons.
Slightly is debatable, but you're entitled to you opinion. I'd say for what we now know with Cozart off the field and in the clubhouse, I think he was the better choice. We still don't know if Didi's upside is better than Cozart. Yankees may have another shortstop in waiting and Didi will be gone next year.
Sponsored Links
  #2672  
Old 08-07-17, 12:52 PM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
On this team, this year, Votto is probably worth 12 wins right now. The pitching is so horrendous that without Votto this Reds team may be the worst in MLB history.
Actually the backend of the staff is pretty solid. It's pretty obvious you are overestimating the value of yet another Red. As great as Votto is, he isn't making as great a difference as your eyeball test suggests.
  #2673  
Old 08-07-17, 12:54 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-11-07
Posts: 14,281
adselder09 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
On this team, this year, Votto is probably worth 12 wins right now. The pitching is so horrendous that without Votto this Reds team may be the worst in MLB history.
An argument could be made for 6, but definitely not 12. Think if he were having this season with a winning team, definitely in the MVP discussion.
  #2674  
Old 08-07-17, 12:55 PM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Slightly is debatable, but you're entitled to you opinion. I'd say for what we now know with Cozart off the field and in the clubhouse, I think he was the better choice. We still don't know if Didi's upside is better than Cozart. Yankees may have another shortstop in waiting and Didi will be gone next year.
Not really, pretty obvious Didi is a great value than Cozart over the timeframe you suggest. Why would Didi's upside change if he played for the Yankees or another team? Cozart probably won't play a full season next year anyway.
  #2675  
Old 08-07-17, 12:57 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-11-07
Posts: 14,281
adselder09 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Slightly is debatable, but you're entitled to you opinion. I'd say for what we now know with Cozart off the field and in the clubhouse, I think he was the better choice. We still don't know if Didi's upside is better than Cozart. Yankees may have another shortstop in waiting and Didi will be gone next year.
Not sure how batting statistics are debatable. They're either better or they're not.
  #2676  
Old 08-07-17, 01:03 PM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Not sure it's going to be "counting" on him, but he'll be on the mound buddy, like it or not.

Luck does have something to do with it. Not always but sometimes. Just pointing out the differences.
Why would any Red fan like it? He's terrible.
  #2677  
Old 08-07-17, 03:00 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-12-12
Posts: 4,067
14Red is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Not sure how batting statistics are debatable. They're either better or they're not.
If he only got paid for batting statistics. But major league shortstops do not.
  #2678  
Old 08-07-17, 03:31 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 07-28-16
Posts: 3,222
Indiandad is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Exactly what? If you actually go back, you'll see I was responding to 14red's challenge to find a better value/production proposition than Cozart. I just pointed out that Didi was a better value, slightly better batting statistics, pretty equal fielding, 4 yrs younger and far better upside than Cozart....and also noted the Reds made a bad trade choosing Cozart over him for those very reasons.
In what way was Didi better than Zack over the 5 years you mention?

Zack Cozart 2013-present

.253/.302/.404
70 HR
256 RBI
344 Runs scores
WAR 11.4

Didi Gregorius 2013-present

59 HR
237 RBI
254 Runs scored
.268/.315/.412
WAR 11.2

Cozart has more HR, RBI, Runs scored and a higher WAR.
Didi has a slightly better slash.

Oh, and Cozart was a better fielder also.
  #2679  
Old 08-07-17, 03:48 PM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
In what way was Didi better than Zack over the 5 years you mention?

Zack Cozart 2013-present

.253/.302/.404
70 HR
256 RBI
344 Runs scores
WAR 11.4

Didi Gregorius 2013-present

59 HR
237 RBI
254 Runs scored
.268/.315/.412
WAR 11.2

Cozart has more HR, RBI, Runs scored and a higher WAR.
Didi has a slightly better slash.

Oh, and Cozart was a better fielder also.
You're an idiot. The stats you quoted for Cozart are career, not 2013-present. Didi has a better slash, OPS+, HRs, RBIs, etc.
  #2680  
Old 08-07-17, 03:50 PM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Cozart actually has from 2013-present

53 HRs
218 RBIs
266 Runs scored
.254/.305/.404/.709/91
  #2681  
Old 08-07-17, 04:03 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 07-28-16
Posts: 3,222
Indiandad is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Cozart actually has from 2013-present

53 HRs
218 RBIs
266 Runs scored
.254/.305/.404/.709/91
You're right... my mistake.
  #2682  
Old 08-07-17, 04:17 PM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
You're right... my mistake.
I'd say Cozart was slightly better fielder, but it's pretty clear Didi has closed that gap this year significantly.
  #2683  
Old 08-07-17, 09:30 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-11-07
Posts: 14,281
adselder09 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
If he only got paid for batting statistics. But major league shortstops do not.
But that's not what you argued. You said they were slightly debatable, but batting stats are pretty cut and dry. Sure there's the offensive and defensive side, but the argument was being made about hitting as the two were fairly even in the field. The best part of Cozart's game is his glove, he's picked it up with his bat this year just so happened to be too little too late for the Reds.
  #2684  
Old 08-07-17, 11:06 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-12-12
Posts: 4,067
14Red is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
But that's not what you argued. You said they were slightly debatable, but batting stats are pretty cut and dry. Sure there's the offensive and defensive side, but the argument was being made about hitting as the two were fairly even in the field. The best part of Cozart's game is his glove, he's picked it up with his bat this year just so happened to be too little too late for the Reds.
Dude...it's a wash...IMO, I'd rather have had Cozart than Didi...this isn't a landslide either way. Knowing what we know from Cozart, I'm happy the Reds too Cozart...plain and simple.

Enough of this silliness...
  #2685  
Old 08-07-17, 11:10 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-12-12
Posts: 4,067
14Red is an unknown quantity at this point
Those of you who've already given up on the day to day following of the Reds, boy you are missing one of the best of the best. Joey Votto has picked up from his great 2nd half last year and is having a tremendos 2017 season. The statistics that the radio and tv guys spew out every night as Votto continues to pile up incredible season and career numbers is astounding. Sit back and enjoy.
  #2686  
Old 08-08-17, 04:40 AM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Dude...it's a wash...IMO, I'd rather have had Cozart than Didi...this isn't a landslide either way. Knowing what we know from Cozart, I'm happy the Reds too Cozart...plain and simple.

Enough of this silliness...
It's not a wash, Didi is 4 years younger, that's huge.
  #2687  
Old 08-08-17, 06:12 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-14-17
Posts: 4,226
Taco MacArthur has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Yeah but then that would mean he'd have to be critical of the Reds and real fans aren't critical.
  #2688  
Old 08-08-17, 08:18 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-12-12
Posts: 4,067
14Red is an unknown quantity at this point
Any of you Homer Bailey haters??? Please indulge me...go to Lance McCallister's blog page on 700wlw, or listen to the podcast from his afternoon show on 1530. Lance does, better than I ever could, explain the process of signing Homer to the current long term deal that no one seems to understand why. Believe it or not, it made alot of sense at the time of the signing, including why it was Bailey and not Cueto.
  #2689  
Old 08-08-17, 08:30 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-11-07
Posts: 14,281
adselder09 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Dude...it's a wash...IMO, I'd rather have had Cozart than Didi...this isn't a landslide either way. Knowing what we know from Cozart, I'm happy the Reds too Cozart...plain and simple.

Enough of this silliness...
You put your foot in your mouth more than anyone on here. It's close to a wash except for age, which ep already pointed out.
  #2690  
Old 08-08-17, 08:34 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-11-07
Posts: 14,281
adselder09 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Any of you Homer Bailey haters??? Please indulge me...go to Lance McCallister's blog page on 700wlw, or listen to the podcast from his afternoon show on 1530. Lance does, better than I ever could, explain the process of signing Homer to the current long term deal that no one seems to understand why. Believe it or not, it made alot of sense at the time of the signing, including why it was Bailey and not Cueto.
Don't think anyone hates Bailey, he just hasn't pitched a full season the last 2 years and when he is out there he's been lackluster. The fact that you keep trying to convince people that his signing was a good idea at the time is hilarious. It wasn't. It was another miss by the scouts in the dept thinking he was ace material. Clearly he's not. He is what he is and we're stuck with that for a couple more years. But stop acting like it was a good signing, it clearly was not.
  #2691  
Old 08-08-17, 09:25 AM
Descartes Descartes is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 11-06-16
Location: Better than PantherDad
Posts: 7,291
Descartes has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Those of you who've already given up on the day to day following of the Reds, boy you are missing one of the best of the best. Joey Votto has picked up from his great 2nd half last year and is having a tremendos 2017 season. The statistics that the radio and tv guys spew out every night as Votto continues to pile up incredible season and career numbers is astounding. Sit back and enjoy.
Why would anyone want to watch the worst team in baseball. Votto is a stud, HOFer, but the rest of the team is bleh. The focus needs to be in rebuilding the farm system. Guys like Winker, Stephenson, and Reed, who were top prospects, are trash. They need to call Senzel up in September, just to get him some ABs.
  #2692  
Old 08-08-17, 10:24 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 09-11-16
Posts: 3,140
WinstonSmith has a little shameless behaviour in the past
"Sit back and enjoy."
  #2693  
Old 08-08-17, 11:08 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 07-31-16
Posts: 804
wolves82 is on a distinguished road
Those of you advocating for Didi over Cozart in 2012 are correct, "in hindsight". Please add those 2 important words to your posts. Otherwise be quiet.

In 2012 the Reds were in a "win now" mindset, and the choice was obvious and easy. Didi being 4 years younger was a detriment then, as he was unproven. The 4 years would obviously be a benefit now. Duh.

I'll check back in a few days, hopefully this pointless argument is over.
  #2694  
Old 08-08-17, 11:24 AM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Any of you Homer Bailey haters??? Please indulge me...go to Lance McCallister's blog page on 700wlw, or listen to the podcast from his afternoon show on 1530. Lance does, better than I ever could, explain the process of signing Homer to the current long term deal that no one seems to understand why. Believe it or not, it made alot of sense at the time of the signing, including why it was Bailey and not Cueto.
That's the only guy who's opinion is more useless than yours on the subject of baseball.
  #2695  
Old 08-08-17, 11:25 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-14-17
Posts: 4,226
Taco MacArthur has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Those of you advocating for Didi over Cozart in 2012 are correct, "in hindsight". Please add those 2 important words to your posts. Otherwise be quiet.

In 2012 the Reds were in a "win now" mindset, and the choice was obvious and easy. Didi being 4 years younger was a detriment then, as he was unproven. The 4 years would obviously be a benefit now. Duh.

I'll check back in a few days, hopefully this pointless argument is over.
Nah, I'll keep talking about it. You sure do piss and moan alot about what people debate. If you don't wanna read it, don't.

The argument for is the same thing the Red Sox just did. It's not like Cozart was providing anything exceptional that the team didn't already have.
  #2696  
Old 08-08-17, 11:30 AM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Those of you advocating for Didi over Cozart in 2012 are correct, "in hindsight". Please add those 2 important words to your posts. Otherwise be quiet.

In 2012 the Reds were in a "win now" mindset, and the choice was obvious and easy. Didi being 4 years younger was a detriment then, as he was unproven. The 4 years would obviously be a benefit now. Duh.

I'll check back in a few days, hopefully this pointless argument is over.
I like how you're so in a huff over this discussion. The question asked by 14red was find me a better value than Cozart over the last 5 years. Didi was a better value and I clearly demonstrated why, so obviously the Reds missed by dealing Didi instead of Cozart. I'll probably repeat this discussion several times just to piss you off, since you're being such a dick about it though.
  #2697  
Old 08-08-17, 11:32 AM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Nah, I'll keep talking about it. You sure do piss and moan alot about what people debate. If you don't wanna read it, don't.

The argument for is the same thing the Red Sox just did. It's not like Cozart was providing anything exceptional that the team didn't already have.
Yeah, the notion that the Reds were in "win now" mode and couldn't part with Cozart is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
  #2698  
Old 08-08-17, 12:56 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-12-12
Posts: 4,067
14Red is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Why would anyone want to watch the worst team in baseball. Votto is a stud, HOFer, but the rest of the team is bleh. The focus needs to be in rebuilding the farm system. Guys like Winker, Stephenson, and Reed, who were top prospects, are trash. They need to call Senzel up in September, just to get him some ABs.
This is far from the worst team in baseball. Starting pitching wise for the season, yes, offense, defense, bullpen has actually been pretty good. Above average in some areas.

Yes, we'd all love to be in a pennant race, in contention. but there are 30 teams, and not everyone wins. That's the great thing about sports.
My interest is in the day to day play of this team. Who's working hard, who's getting better. Isn't it fulfilling to see a guy like Adam Duvall, a 4th/ 5th outfielder for the Giants in 2015, grow into a legit slugger and one of the better defensive left fielders in baseball? Or Eugenio Suarez, a shortstop prospect from the Tigers, move to 3rd base and really become a solid major league 3rd baseman? One of my favorites is the maturation of Tucker Barnhart. I don't know that anyone felt he'd ever be more than a triple A, defensive catcher who'd never hit. He's worked himself into being solid catcher.
Winker's been up for a cup of coffee, we have no idea what he can do long term, be patient. Reed and Stephenson, who knows. Stephenson has thrown a couple of good games. Reed still struggles with the walks in Louisville. This is part of the process.
  #2699  
Old 08-08-17, 01:29 PM
eastside_purple's Avatar
eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 01-21-03
Posts: 70,501
eastside_purple is infamous around these partseastside_purple is infamous around these parts
Remember when you said you'd take Barnhart over Wilson Contreras?
  #2700  
Old 08-08-17, 02:53 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 03-12-12
Posts: 4,067
14Red is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Remember when you said you'd take Barnhart over Wilson Contreras?
Not as big of slam dunk as you think. Contreras has more errors (13) this season that Tucker has in his major league career, spanning 274 games (10).

Barnhart's never going to be a great hitter, but at his current .259, OBP .330, I'll take it. Tucker's most important attribute is his ability to handle pitchers and call a game. I have no idea how Contreras does that. I got to think some of the drop off from last year for the Cubbies is not having David Ross behind the plate calling games.
Hitting catchers are great, but their most important skill is defense and handling pitchers.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boys State Championships (1976-2016) Yappi Boys Soccer 1 03-20-17 01:02 AM
2015 Football Conferences Yappi Football 34 08-03-15 01:45 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:49 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz