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  #31  
Old 01-14-17, 04:02 PM
Tartan78 Tartan78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWolfie83 View Post
How are the teams separated into the A and B groups? I understand you have to beat all teams to advance, but #1 team should be in group A and #2 Team in group B so and so.....


Think of the sub-regions or A group and B group like sectionals in basketball. Those teams are usually geographically closer. There will b 2 teams that come out of each sub-region to meet at a regional.


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  #32  
Old 01-14-17, 06:25 PM
dmean76 dmean76 is offline
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Not so sure about that. My son wrestles for lakeside and we are in st eds region. Then you have Aurora, Riverside, Madison, and Kenston in another region. All geographically closer to lakeside. Madison is a 20 minute ride from us.
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  #33  
Old 01-14-17, 07:10 PM
Tartan78 Tartan78 is offline
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Originally Posted by dmean76 View Post
Not so sure about that. My son wrestles for lakeside and we are in st eds region. Then you have Aurora, Riverside, Madison, and Kenston in another region. All geographically closer to lakeside. Madison is a 20 minute ride from us.


If you look at the sub regions statewide that is usually the way it is set up. There are going to be outliers. Carrollton in Reg 12 is in the same Sub reg as Meadowbrook which is a 1.5 hour drive. But the bulk of the teams are w/in 45 minutes of each other.


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  #34  
Old 01-14-17, 08:44 PM
suplex21 suplex21 is offline
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We have been told it is geographical, but yes there are outliers. My point was the a and b are preset before voting. The seeds are only of the preseeds. So yes in many regions the regional semifinal loser will be a better team than the regional final loser. Just like some teams that lose in regionals may be better than teams that go from another region.
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  #35  
Old 01-14-17, 11:01 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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View it like a basketball situation.

The teams are regionalized into eight groups, then from those eight groups, each has a pair of sub-groups. Generally speaking, things are done geographically; there are some outliers due to numbers and the such.

Similar that in the basketball tournament there may be a scenario where the regional semifinalist that loses to the regional champ isn't as good as the regional runner-up (the regional in basketball has four district champs that randomly funnel into it).
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  #36  
Old 01-15-17, 12:01 AM
fatboyroll fatboyroll is offline
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Because the top teams in Region 8 are in 8-B. The state sets which part of the region each school is in.
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  #37  
Old 01-15-17, 12:07 AM
fatboyroll fatboyroll is offline
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Geographically is a mild term for some of the regions. I think one of the reasons the early rounds of the duals don't do well at the gate is some of the match-ups are crazy distance wise. Look at region 15. Bellbrook and Waynesville are 15 minutes apart and have to drive 2 hours to wrestle at Western Brown. There are some changes that could be made that would put schools closer geographically than what they are, but it is what it is
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  #38  
Old 01-15-17, 09:38 AM
CoachHoon CoachHoon is offline
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Many of you make some good points about the "geography" and the equality of one region to the next. But social media is, by nature, a passive aggressive way to handle these situations.
Some of you are part of very influential parent groups/boosters that can make your opinion known to your head coaches and athletic directors, who in turn need to attend their local coaches association meetings and district board meetings.
These decisions are being made by the few without very much input from the masses who are affected by them. I encourage you to be more than a "voice" online and be the change you want to see in this sport.
If you have any direct questions feel free to email me at ahoon@bedford.k12.oh.us
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  #39  
Old 01-15-17, 05:18 PM
oubobcat1991 oubobcat1991 is offline
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D2 Region 13. Explain how this was created?
188 miles between Gallia Academy and Ashland?
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  #40  
Old 01-15-17, 05:19 PM
wash.c.h.legend wash.c.h.legend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oubobcat1991 View Post
D2 Region 13. Explain how this was created?

188 miles between Gallia Academy and Ashland?


Wow!


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  #41  
Old 01-15-17, 05:20 PM
oubobcat1991 oubobcat1991 is offline
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SE Ohio does not have a voice or get an ear.
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  #42  
Old 01-15-17, 08:19 PM
87TrojanGolf 87TrojanGolf is offline
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Would love to see schools like Portsmouth, Wheelersburg,Portsmouth West,Waverly,Minford,Valley,Piketon,Oak Hill,Rock Hill,etc. get programs so things could be better for the sport & duals for southeastern Ohio.
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  #43  
Old 01-16-17, 11:26 AM
Beans100 Beans100 is offline
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I thought Yinger Was the Voice for SE!!
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  #44  
Old 01-16-17, 11:33 AM
heavybcat heavybcat is offline
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OU,
Quit crying! lol
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  #45  
Old 01-16-17, 11:37 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyroll View Post
Geographically is a mild term for some of the regions. I think one of the reasons the early rounds of the duals don't do well at the gate is some of the match-ups are crazy distance wise. Look at region 15. Bellbrook and Waynesville are 15 minutes apart and have to drive 2 hours to wrestle at Western Brown. There are some changes that could be made that would put schools closer geographically than what they are, but it is what it is
99% of the first round matches are a complete waste of time. I think that attributes to attendance just as much as distance in most cases. I'd like to see the requirements for entering become a little more selective or the state mandates that the last Saturday in January or first in February be used to knock out the first two rounds.

I haven't looked at every region, but typically no one could wrestle more than 3 matches week 1 and they only wrestle 2 in the 2nd round. 5 matches would not come into play if set up this way.

While I'm complaining.... make the finals a little more than 1 and done. They want increased attendence, then make it worth the travel for these schools. Anyone who draws Eds, Graham, or Mechanicsburg first round isn't coming to watch unless they have a relative on the team.
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  #46  
Old 01-16-17, 01:54 PM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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Eyes I've said virtually the same thing for years. I will go one step further and say the second round match ups aren't much better. Two years ago I did an analysis of the difference between the winning and losing teams in D1. If I remember correctly, the AVERAGE was 22 points. Proving MOST matches aren't drawing fans and aren't competitive. We should take the top 16 teams seed the top 8 and in one day declare a winner. Like we did years ago. Just my two cents.
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  #47  
Old 01-16-17, 02:06 PM
wrestling world wrestling world is offline
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I'm southwest so I don't know a lot about the schools up north, what we have some excellent teams down south this year. Mason, Elder, and Lasalle. are all extremely tough. Not sure who comes out of our region but they will make some noise at the duals in c-bus. I don't think anyone is beating Mason down here in a dual setting. They are stacked from top to bottom if healthy. Elder is probably second in a dual setting but Lasalle has 8-9 kids that you just can't beat. I guess it just depends on lasalle second tier guys, because if they don't giveup bonus they could be the frontrunners.
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  #48  
Old 01-16-17, 02:09 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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The question being how do you get the top chunk of teams without rounds of competition to determine it? The concept of an "all-in" event is what the state duals was proposed as, and that's what we have.

An alternative that is still "all in" would be to set up some sort of "forced scheduling" scenario:
-split the current sub-regions into two pods
-on one Saturday each half of a sub-region has a round-robin event and determines a winner
-then a week from the following Wednesday (i.e. 10 days later), a semifinal and final are wrestled (like it is now) to determine the advancing team to Columbus

The one and done for the team state tournament (proper) is how it's done in some/many other structures.

You're not going to sell the OHSAA on sanctioning something that's now "all in" or that does not have some sort of objective determining factor.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-17, 02:32 PM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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I understand an "all in" is what the OSHAA wants. I also understand I am in the minority. I love duals. I enjoy a competitive dual not blow outs. I just don't see how an "all in" event will change the problems we have getting the casual fan to watch our sport.
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  #50  
Old 01-16-17, 06:23 PM
350zjk 350zjk is offline
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The State Duals when the Coaches Association ran it was NOT perfect, but was so much better (exciting) than what we have now.
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  #51  
Old 01-16-17, 09:29 PM
CoachYing CoachYing is offline
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I am on the state board however some guys don't realize the state coaches assoc. don't make these decisions the OHSAA does. 2 years in a row I have been blamed for teams not getting what they have wanted???? Again the Coaches Assoc has no say over Sectionals, Districts or the State duals. Sorry and I have no hard feeling OU Bobcat I understand your frustration. You need to look at all divisions. Last year we drove to Galion Northmor on a Wednesday night 100 miles, and Canton 2 years ago 100 miles. It is what it is. However I must say that is crazy and not even reasonable that a team should have to travel 180 miles one way 360 on a School night come on on something has to give. Gallia Academy should be in Region 15.

Last edited by CoachYing; 01-16-17 at 09:49 PM.
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  #52  
Old 01-16-17, 09:35 PM
Tuslaw96 Tuslaw96 is offline
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What are the duals? Are they used to get extra matches or to see who has the best dual team in the state? We are all getting free matches to compete in before the Individual state tournament run. I'm not a basketball fan but I do not see any of those teams not participating in their tournament run because they can not win. Use these duals as a chance to get better. If you can not win ok, but do not teach our kids it is ok to run from someone better than you because you can not beat them. Just my opinion!
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  #53  
Old 01-16-17, 11:05 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
The question being how do you get the top chunk of teams without rounds of competition to determine it? The concept of an "all-in" event is what the state duals was proposed as, and that's what we have.

An alternative that is still "all in" would be to set up some sort of "forced scheduling" scenario:
-split the current sub-regions into two pods
-on one Saturday each half of a sub-region has a round-robin event and determines a winner
-then a week from the following Wednesday (i.e. 10 days later), a semifinal and final are wrestled (like it is now) to determine the advancing team to Columbus

The one and done for the team state tournament (proper) is how it's done in some/many other structures.

You're not going to sell the OHSAA on sanctioning something that's now "all in" or that does not have some sort of objective determining factor.
Yes, they went all in and they won't change that. That's why I suggested making it worth while by making the process to enter more stringent. If they don't do that, then make it a 1 day qualifying event on a weekend.

I don't see anything wrong with requiring teams to have 10+ weight classes filled. Something along those lines.

The OHSAA is about making money. That's the primary reason for 1 day sectionals. Why not do that with the qualifier as well? This would eliminate the 1st night where the most money is lost. Sitting in a gym all day isn't the most appealing to the fringe fan, but watching 30+ point blow outs isn't any more fun.

I currently don't attend the first round matches due to lack of interest/appealing matchups. Not to mention $8 for those matches followed by a $10 night week 2. I know I'm not alone in this thinking. I want this thing to to work, but the current system is not the answer. (Can wrestling please stop taking advantage of the fans? It is stuggling at most schools and the get every penny mentality isn't helping)
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  #54  
Old 01-17-17, 12:10 AM
chidy chidy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
Yes, they went all in and they won't change that. That's why I suggested making it worth while by making the process to enter more stringent. If they don't do that, then make it a 1 day qualifying event on a weekend.

I don't see anything wrong with requiring teams to have 10+ weight classes filled. Something along those lines.

The OHSAA is about making money. That's the primary reason for 1 day sectionals. Why not do that with the qualifier as well? This would eliminate the 1st night where the most money is lost. Sitting in a gym all day isn't the most appealing to the fringe fan, but watching 30+ point blow outs isn't any more fun.

I currently don't attend the first round matches due to lack of interest/appealing matchups. Not to mention $8 for those matches followed by a $10 night week 2. I know I'm not alone in this thinking. I want this thing to to work, but the current system is not the answer. (Can wrestling please stop taking advantage of the fans? It is stuggling at most schools and the get every penny mentality isn't helping)
I think a 9 or 10 wrestler minimum would be a reasonable stipulation for participation.
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  #55  
Old 01-17-17, 08:32 AM
Lucksman Lucksman is offline
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How about going back to the Old way. Do the point system like we did before to get the top 8. Also split into 4 divisions and crown 4 dual meet State Champions. It gets boring to see the same teams win both titles, or close to it. Going 4 divisions would create excitement, new competition, and eliminate the HUGE number gap in Division I, plus would create interest in the small school with a solid team, a change to win a State Title, might get more participation. The system now is well thought out and organized, however I think for some reason the State Duals were more popular the old way. Football went 7 Divisions and it did not milk things down, nobody winning Division 6 and 7 are saying well there are too many divisions, those communities are excited about football. Growth in the State Duals would be positive, what going on now I hear nothing but lack of interest.

Just some thoughts
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  #56  
Old 01-17-17, 09:32 AM
BHiatt BHiatt is offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuslaw96 View Post
What are the duals? Are they used to get extra matches or to see who has the best dual team in the state? We are all getting free matches to compete in before the Individual state tournament run. I'm not a basketball fan but I do not see any of those teams not participating in their tournament run because they can not win. Use these duals as a chance to get better. If you can not win ok, but do not teach our kids it is ok to run from someone better than you because you can not beat them. Just my opinion!
I'm with Tuslaw96 on this one. I love the duals. This set-up is almost exactly what I grew up with in MN -- except the teams that are in your district (for individuals) are the teams in your district for duals as well. If we changed to that way, it'd be like football with a final four instead of final 8.

I like this version much better than how it used to be.
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  #57  
Old 01-17-17, 09:49 AM
Coach Root Coach Root is offline
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I love the state duals. I hate the timing, as I have stated in the past. I think it flirts with injuries way to close to the post season, but I love the duals.

I think the only reason that people are stating they like the old way better is because the Coaches Association wrestled it out for true finishes (i.e. 1st, 3rd, 5th, & 7th), giving the qualifiers more of a benefit by providing multiple matches for all that qualify. Qualifying based on last years team lends itself to controversy.

I know everyone likes the venue, but it seems like the best interest of the sport and the event isn't the glamour and glitz of the arena, but instead the better design of the tournament. (i.e. better mapped out qualifiers and wrestle backs in the finals which require more mats)

Coach Root
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  #58  
Old 01-17-17, 09:59 AM
BHiatt BHiatt is offline
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Originally Posted by Coach Root View Post
I love the state duals. I hate the timing, as I have stated in the past. I think it flirts with injuries way to close to the post season, but I love the duals. Coach Root
Coach Root -- this has so much to do with perspective (and upbringing as well).

I grew up in MN. Do you know when the state duals were held? 1st round was Tues before sectionals. 2nd rd was Tues before districts. The state tournament was held INBETWEEN the individual rounds AT THE STATE TOURNAMENT!!!!

...and the atmosphere was AWESOME!!! I remember seeing signs in small towns in northern Minnesota -- "Town closed for state wrestling tournament" and fans would all sit in a block.

State dual finals were held on Saturday afternoon prior to the individual finals in the evening!! So for me, having it in Jan/Feb seemed strange.

(I believe they have moved it now to before the individual tournament, but I think it is either the weekend prior or the days before (like on Tues / Wed and individual is Thurs - Sat). I'd have to check on that though.)
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  #59  
Old 01-17-17, 10:07 AM
Coach Root Coach Root is offline
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I grew up in Illinois. They run theirs the weekend following the state tournament (or at least they use to). Your team qualified by winning your sectional. I thought it was great because you didn't interfere with the individual state tournament.


Coach Root
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  #60  
Old 01-17-17, 10:23 AM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Root View Post
I grew up in Illinois. They run theirs the weekend following the state tournament (or at least they use to). Your team qualified by winning your sectional. I thought it was great because you didn't interfere with the individual state tournament.


Coach Root
Best idea I have heard so far.
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