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  #2281  
Old 07-13-17, 12:56 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Just stop, you sound like an idiot. Snydergaard was a consensus top-50 prospect at age 19 when the Mets acquired him. If the Reds deal Suarez for a top-50 prospect, it would be a huge fleecing.
Baseball America had him ranked 54th at age 19.
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  #2282  
Old 07-13-17, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/201...trade_whe.html

Read the paragraph under RHP Noah Syndergaard
So? He was a 19 yo consensus top-50 prospect at the time. What makes you think the Reds can pull an asset like that for Suarez? The Mets dealt the reigning CYA winner.
  #2283  
Old 07-13-17, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Baseball America had him ranked 54th at age 19.
Where did the other two rank him???? Is it more feasible to get a 54th ranked prospect for Suarez?
  #2284  
Old 07-13-17, 01:05 PM
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I love how indiandad thinks the Reds can somehow pawn off average players for others teams top young prospects. Did you use to call into the banana phone with these trade suggestions?
  #2285  
Old 07-13-17, 01:22 PM
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Seriously. This isn't a video game.
  #2286  
Old 07-13-17, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
I love how indiandad thinks the Reds can somehow pawn off average players for others teams top young prospects. Did you use to call into the banana phone with these trade suggestions?
A couple of pages back Suarez was young, controllable, cheap with lots of upside to develop into.

Today he is average.


Got it.
  #2287  
Old 07-13-17, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
Clearly Washington needs a closer for their playoff run. Heard an ESPN report today that Washington covets Iglesias. Tim Kurkjian said obviously the Reds love Iglesias and the asking price would be very high.

Thoughts on that?

Here are mine. I've been saying forever that Iglesias is the best pitcher on the team. Multiple grade "A" pitches, multiple arm angles, smart pitching mind. Potential ace. Should have stretched him back out a year ago and got him back in the rotation.

The Reds have Iglesias wasting away in the pen. And now he reportedly loves his new role. Of course he does. Less work, more glory. The closer role is over-valued on a non-contending team. If the plan is to keep him in the pen, I would be OK with a trade if it gets us 2 near-MLB level young starting pitchers.
The Reds tried to start Iglesias in 2015 and 2016, result - injuries. He's not a starting pitcher. He's a bullpen guy, most effective when used a couple of innings every few days. They did try to stretch him out, he got hurt. Why not just be happy that he can be a dominant bullpen guy.
  #2288  
Old 07-13-17, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
So? He was a 19 yo consensus top-50 prospect at the time. What makes you think the Reds can pull an asset like that for Suarez? The Mets dealt the reigning CYA winner.
RA Dickey was an aging Knuckleballer who had two winning seasons in his previous 8 with never more than 11 wins. He had a stellar season at age 37.

I thought aging veterans having a career year can't bring anyone of value back.

At least your inconsistent rationale is consistent.
  #2289  
Old 07-13-17, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Where did the other two rank him???? Is it more feasible to get a 54th ranked prospect for Suarez?
Consensus means "all in agreement". 1/3 apparently disagreed.
  #2290  
Old 07-13-17, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
So? He was a 19 yo consensus top-50 prospect at the time. What makes you think the Reds can pull an asset like that for Suarez? The Mets dealt the reigning CYA winner.
So the Mets weren't even targeting him initially. Just like I said.
  #2291  
Old 07-13-17, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Consensus means "all in agreement". 1/3 apparently disagreed.
I took a liberty, not sure how this makes you look less stupid, but hang your hat on this.
  #2292  
Old 07-13-17, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
RA Dickey was an aging Knuckleballer who had two winning seasons in his previous 8 with never more than 11 wins. He had a stellar season at age 37.

I thought aging veterans having a career year can't bring anyone of value back.

At least your inconsistent rationale is consistent.
His career year was a CYA and he had outstanding years the two prior. If Cozart wins an MVP, maybe you'd look less stupid here too.
  #2293  
Old 07-13-17, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
So the Mets weren't even targeting him initially. Just like I said.
So that makes him a diamond in the rough? Three organizations ranked him the 54th and the other two around 28th best prospect in baseball.
  #2294  
Old 07-13-17, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
A couple of pages back Suarez was young, controllable, cheap with lots of upside to develop into.

Today he is average.


Got it.
He is young, controllable and cheap.....and is pretty average. Did I project him as an all-star? Nope.
  #2295  
Old 07-13-17, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
His career year was a CYA and he had outstanding years the two prior. If Cozart wins an MVP, maybe you'd look less stupid here too.
11-9 and 8-13 Are outstanding years now?
  #2296  
Old 07-13-17, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
So that makes him a diamond in the rough? Three organizations ranked him the 54th and the other two around 28th best prospect in baseball.
At 19 and a pitcher absolutely it does. Syndergaard added 5-7 mph to his fastball. It made him dominant.

He didn't have that at 19.
  #2297  
Old 07-13-17, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
He is young, controllable and cheap.....and is pretty average. Did I project him as an all-star? Nope.
No but you lauded his potential because he is young. You kept hammering that point. Today he is just average.

Consistently inconsistent.
  #2298  
Old 07-13-17, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
11-9 and 8-13 Are outstanding years now?
You judge pitchers on win loss record? God, what a moron.
  #2299  
Old 07-13-17, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
At 19 and a pitcher absolutely it does. Syndergaard added 5-7 mph to his fastball. It made him dominant.

He didn't have that at 19.
Okay. Well, I hope the Reds can trade Suarez for a #28 prospect flying under the radar like Snydergaard.
  #2300  
Old 07-13-17, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
No but you lauded his potential because he is young. You kept hammering that point. Today he is just average.

Consistently inconsistent.
Not really. I'd say he's average, which isn't bad in the MLB. He has potential to be above average, but I wouldn't hang my hat on that.
  #2301  
Old 07-13-17, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
You judge pitchers on win loss record? God, what a moron.
Given that Dickey's ERA during his CYA year (2.73) was his best ever ranks him 9th best ERA of the last 10 winners there just isn't much else to get excited about in his numbers.
  #2302  
Old 07-13-17, 03:07 PM
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Given that Dickey's ERA during his CYA year (2.73) was his best ever ranks him 9th best ERA of the last 10 winners there just isn't much else to get excited about in his numbers.
Okay. I'm sure that boosts Suarez's chances of landing the Reds a prospect ranked in the high 20s. Good point!
  #2303  
Old 07-13-17, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
11-9 and 8-13 Are outstanding years now?
ERA of 2.84, 3.28 and 2.73 in the CYA year. W-L is utterly useless when determining if a pitcher is good or not.
  #2304  
Old 07-13-17, 03:11 PM
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ERA of 2.84, 3.28 and 2.73 in the CYA year. W-L is utterly useless when determining if a pitcher is good or not.
I could see how a team in "win now" mode would covet a season or two like that and may part with a highly regarded prospect like Snydergaard. I can't see a scenario where a team does the same for Suarez. Not even close.
  #2305  
Old 07-13-17, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Consensus means "all in agreement". 1/3 apparently disagreed.
You act like there's a sizable difference between 54 and 50 in prospect rankings based on potential
  #2306  
Old 07-13-17, 03:51 PM
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You act like there's a sizable difference between 54 and 50 in prospect rankings based on potential
No. Just pointing out the inaccuracy of his statement.
  #2307  
Old 07-13-17, 03:52 PM
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You act like there's a sizable difference between 54 and 50 in prospect rankings based on potential
MLB and Baseball Prospectus both had Snydergaard around 28th. Diamond in the rough....what an absolute idiot.
  #2308  
Old 07-13-17, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
ERA of 2.84, 3.28 and 2.73 in the CYA year. W-L is utterly useless when determining if a pitcher is good or not.
His ERA and WHIP from his "outstanding years" would rank him behind Feldman this year.


Nothing about his "outstanding years" was indicative of future Cy Young winning ability.
  #2309  
Old 07-13-17, 03:58 PM
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His ERA and WHIP from his "outstanding years" would rank him behind Feldman this year.


Nothing about his "outstanding years" was indicative of future Cy Young winning ability.
Feldman's ERA is 3.94. Good post.
  #2310  
Old 07-13-17, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
MLB and Baseball Prospectus both had Snydergaard around 28th. Diamond in the rough....what an absolute idiot.
2007 28th prospect Nick Adenhart tragically died
2008 Chris Marrero playing in Japan
2009 Gordon Beckham career .240 hitter with no power
2010 Derek Norris career .230 hitter
2011 Jason Kipnis All Star 2015


Being ranked 28th doesn't guarantee much.
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