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  #271  
Old 02-12-18, 01:37 PM
The Final Say The Final Say is offline
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So

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Originally Posted by NewJacketCity View Post
Yeah. I know first hand that a kid from Sidney was asked to play for a TW youth team 2 years ago. This is why I believe there's reason to believe it's still going on. It's not as overt and out there, but I believe it's absolutely still happening just at a younger age so they can say "so and so has went here since he was in x grade". It may not be happening in mass, but sometimes one player if it's the right player can make all of the difference. Again, is this against the "rules"? No, but don't complain when other schools who don't want to play those games leave you out.
Trotwood youth sports is to blame for why the GWOC North half is leaving them out? That is interesting because Trotwood Wee Rams have not played in a Dayton based league in nearly 10 years. So how in the world is it that youth sports is the reason why. Now Trotwood Wee Rams is a very dominant youth sports organization. And the league they are in has no residency requirement and yes, it is a means to community build, as only 12 percent of Trotwood-Madison students start in kindergarten and graduate from high school. It is a transit community with a lot of renters. So in Trotwood we do use our youth sports to community build. And you know what it is working, we have great programs in football and basketball, we have a newly revitalized baseball program, and we are on the brink of starting youth volleyball and soccer, and youth lacrosse administered by Trotwood Wee Rams. So don't play us, so what, we are the standard not you. That is why we compete for State Championships year in and out.
  #272  
Old 02-12-18, 01:47 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewJacketCity View Post
Yeah. I know first hand that a kid from Sidney was asked to play for a TW youth team 2 years ago. This is why I believe there's reason to believe it's still going on. It's not as overt and out there, but I believe it's absolutely still happening just at a younger age so they can say "so and so has went here since he was in x grade". It may not be happening in mass, but sometimes one player if it's the right player can make all of the difference. Again, is this against the "rules"? No, but don't complain when other schools who don't want to play those games leave you out.
This goes on in pretty much all communities in the area. And for a lot of reasons...somebody wants to play with their cousin, step-brother, friend, etc. They know the coaches and would rather their kid play for them instead of their local option. The local youth sports are not well ran or don't exist at all. They had a bad previous experience with the local organization. Sometimes kids move schools because of their positive experiences at another organization and sometimes they stay at home once they get to the age of school based sports.

To act like this is exclusive to Trotwood is silly.
  #273  
Old 02-12-18, 02:02 PM
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The Trotwood ELM Basketball program is run by the city of Trotwood Parks and Recreation Department and plays in the Metro League. The have self-enforced residency rules to participate. This is the only feeder program in the city and it works directly with the school district for games and practices.

The city did not have a city run program 7-8 years ago sir. The Roundball program as it was called in the past had died due to a variety of reasons. Ultimately the former Head BBall coach tried to re-kindle the program under his wing. That may have been 2007-2008 (10 years ago) and there may have been a year in there where it got a little silly but it was never an AAU program and again most of the kids were Trotwood kids??? The program had actually died until the new Parks and Rec director decided to get it started back up about 5 or 6 years ago. And the first year they did not even play in the metro league it was an in-house program. So here we go with someone from the outside throwing falsehoods. I do not know what team you are talking about 7 or 8 years ago but it was not the program run by the Parks and Rec Department.
  #274  
Old 02-12-18, 02:02 PM
WCfan WCfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Final Say View Post
Trotwood youth sports is to blame for why the GWOC North half is leaving them out? That is interesting because Trotwood Wee Rams have not played in a Dayton based league in nearly 10 years. So how in the world is it that youth sports is the reason why. Now Trotwood Wee Rams is a very dominant youth sports organization. And the league they are in has no residency requirement and yes, it is a means to community build, as only 12 percent of Trotwood-Madison students start in kindergarten and graduate from high school. It is a transit community with a lot of renters. So in Trotwood we do use our youth sports to community build. And you know what it is working, we have great programs in football and basketball, we have a newly revitalized baseball program, and we are on the brink of starting youth volleyball and soccer, and youth lacrosse administered by Trotwood Wee Rams. So don't play us, so what, we are the standard not you. That is why we compete for State Championships year in and out.
It was 7 years ago and they were playing as the Trotwood Rams in the now defunct youth GWOC league which did have residency rules. Clearly no one is saying that youth basketball from seven years ago is why Trotwood wasnít invited to the new league and for the love of god everyone on this board has agreed with you that in football and basketball Trotwood is far superior. We all wish our hometown teams was as successful as Trotwood is. We are just trying to help you understand why these schools likely didnít invite Trotwood. As I stated in a previous post, WC and Greenville was left out of a league when the MML collapsed and Iím sure that is a big part of why those schools agreed to go, so that they werenít left in the GWOC or on their own again. There are multiple factors at play here for why Trotwood has been so successful and multiple factors for why they werenít invited to the new league and that it wasnít all racially motivated. Iím sure there are some racist people in the 10 school districts that are leaving that this might make happy, but this was not done because Trotwood is predominantly black.
  #275  
Old 02-12-18, 02:27 PM
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Rules

Here is a copy of the Metro League rules fyi.. No where does it say anything about residency enforcement. Most of that is done by the own governing body of the specific program. For instance SDK, Centerville, CJ, Gem City Kings and many others have kids from places outside of their city limits. Heck CJ SDK have no city, so yeah man kids are playing for them that live wherever. Man I guarantee you it is a kid on one of the WC teams right now that does not live in or go to school in WC. This whole Trotwood is recruiting them in Kindergarten spill is starting to get out of control... First they were recruiting them and setting them up with apartments, now it's there recruiting them early. I bet they got a budget for snickers bars, skittles and crayons to convince the kids to commit. Pitiful!! How about Coach Graham and Coach Rockhold coach the kids up and the kids have a winning attitude.. Can that be a reason they win? Maybe



http://www.daytonmetro.org/leagueinf...gue-rules.phpe
  #276  
Old 02-12-18, 02:30 PM
VBHSFB04 VBHSFB04 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Final Say View Post
Is not the Only state Champion in the north. Piqua won it in 2006. Troy has been a consistent playoff team.
Troy has made the playoffs 3 times since 2005. 2010, 2016, 2017. Piqua has not made the playoffs since 2007. Butler has gone twice since 05. Sidney this past year for the first time in 30 years. Fact is Piqua and Troy were always the big dogs in the GMVC and then there was everybody else. Butler had their run around 99-02. Northmont just started their run about the time the GWOC formed. Piqua and Troy are not what they used to be. I think even their supporters would admit that. Trotwood has been rolling since 2007 with the exception of 2008 which, correct me if I'm wrong, was the year Mo was suspended the first 5 games. Started 0-5. No comparison to the MAC. IMO
  #277  
Old 02-12-18, 02:38 PM
The Final Say The Final Say is offline
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Originally Posted by WCfan View Post
It was 7 years ago and they were playing as the Trotwood Rams in the now defunct youth GWOC league which did have residency rules. Clearly no one is saying that youth basketball from seven years ago is why Trotwood wasn’t invited to the new league and for the love of god everyone on this board has agreed with you that in football and basketball Trotwood is far superior. We all wish our hometown teams was as successful as Trotwood is. We are just trying to help you understand why these schools likely didn’t invite Trotwood. As I stated in a previous post, WC and Greenville was left out of a league when the MML collapsed and I’m sure that is a big part of why those schools agreed to go, so that they weren’t left in the GWOC or on their own again. There are multiple factors at play here for why Trotwood has been so successful and multiple factors for why they weren’t invited to the new league and that it wasn’t all racially motivated. I’m sure there are some racist people in the 10 school districts that are leaving that this might make happy, but this was not done because Trotwood is predominantly black.
You never here about any dominant state level team having to worry about not having a place to play unless it happens to be a state level dominant team that is predominately African American. It happened to Winton Woods a few years back. Luckily for Trotwood the teams in the larger division voted them in. Keep in mind that they were voted in to a league that they were already a charter member of. Why who knows probably more "multiple factors." If they are successful like they are now the question is will that relationship last or will your "multiple factors" come into play once again. Sorry I just don't agree with you, I think it is racially motivated.
  #278  
Old 02-12-18, 02:42 PM
The Final Say The Final Say is offline
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My point

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Originally Posted by VBHSFB04 View Post
Troy has made the playoffs 3 times since 2005. 2010, 2016, 2017. Piqua has not made the playoffs since 2007. Butler has gone twice since 05. Sidney this past year for the first time in 30 years. Fact is Piqua and Troy were always the big dogs in the GMVC and then there was everybody else. Butler had their run around 99-02. Northmont just started their run about the time the GWOC formed. Piqua and Troy are not what they used to be. I think even their supporters would admit that. Trotwood has been rolling since 2007 with the exception of 2008 which, correct me if I'm wrong, was the year Mo was suspended the first 5 games. Started 0-5. No comparison to the MAC. IMO
Is that Troy, Piqua, and Northmont even have had their successes against Trotwood-Madison and never once were there any complaints about competition or geography or crowd size. They other point I am making is that you saying the North is not the MAC is even more of the reason why the conference moving away from Trotwood doesn't really make much since at all. Trotwood has carried the GWOC banner on a state level for a decade, no way the conversation doesn't start with them, not happen around them, unless of course it is something else at play here.
  #279  
Old 02-12-18, 02:44 PM
The Final Say The Final Say is offline
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I can confirm

[QUOTE=member1;6985530]Here is a copy of the Metro League rules fyi.. No where does it say anything about residency enforcement. Most of that is done by the own governing body of the specific program. For instance SDK, Centerville, CJ, Gem City Kings and many others have kids from places outside of their city limits. Heck CJ SDK have no city, so yeah man kids are playing for them that live wherever. Man I guarantee you it is a kid on one of the WC teams right now that does not live in or go to school in WC. This whole Trotwood is recruiting them in Kindergarten spill is starting to get out of control... First they were recruiting them and setting them up with apartments, now it's there recruiting them early. I bet they got a budget for snickers bars, skittles and crayons to convince the kids to commit. Pitiful!! How about Coach Graham and Coach Rockhold coach the kids up and the kids have a winning attitude.. Can that be a reason they win? Maybe


Trotwood's skittles and fruit roll up game is on Fleek, as the kids would say. IJS
  #280  
Old 02-12-18, 02:56 PM
WCfan WCfan is offline
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[QUOTE=member1;6985530]Here is a copy of the Metro League rules fyi.. No where does it say anything about residency enforcement. Most of that is done by the own governing body of the specific program. For instance SDK, Centerville, CJ, Gem City Kings and many others have kids from places outside of their city limits. Heck CJ SDK have no city, so yeah man kids are playing for them that live wherever. Man I guarantee you it is a kid on one of the WC teams right now that does not live in or go to school in WC. This whole Trotwood is recruiting them in Kindergarten spill is starting to get out of control... First they were recruiting them and setting them up with apartments, now it's there recruiting them early. I bet they got a budget for snickers bars, skittles and crayons to convince the kids to commit. Pitiful!! How about Coach Graham and Coach Rockhold coach the kids up and the kids have a winning attitude.. Can that be a reason they win? Maybe

In none of my posts have I claimed that Trotwood recruits. You are apparently blending my comments with others. All I have done is state my own experiences with Trotwood over the years. I have stated that Trotwood has lacked in sportsmanship and I have speculated that has been a possible factor in why they were not invited into the new league as one of multiple factors.
The Dayton Metro youth basketball league may not have residency rules, but the youth GWOC league they played in at the time absolutely did. Of course I canít prove rather or not the kids on that team lived in Trotwood or not, but regardless the team, coaches, and fans behaved the way they did. Through all my experiences involving youth, middle school, and high school sports, the only teams I have seen that consistently across the board runs up the scores this way is Trotwood. Sure they are within the rules but it shouldnít be that hard to figure out why the other schools donít want this school in their league.
  #281  
Old 02-12-18, 03:09 PM
VBHSFB04 VBHSFB04 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Final Say View Post
Is that Troy, Piqua, and Northmont even have had their successes against Trotwood-Madison and never once were there any complaints about competition or geography or crowd size. They other point I am making is that you saying the North is not the MAC is even more of the reason why the conference moving away from Trotwood doesn't really make much since at all. Trotwood has carried the GWOC banner on a state level for a decade, no way the conversation doesn't start with them, not happen around them, unless of course it is something else at play here.
I don't disagree. I have been playing a little bit of devil's advocate today. I think Trotwood should have been given the option to join the teams that are leaving the GWOC. I like having a great program to compete against. I just wonder why Trotwood would want to be in a league that has so many teams that they would steamroll by halftime.
  #282  
Old 02-12-18, 03:17 PM
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[QUOTE=WCfan;6985563]
Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
Here is a copy of the Metro League rules fyi.. No where does it say anything about residency enforcement. Most of that is done by the own governing body of the specific program. For instance SDK, Centerville, CJ, Gem City Kings and many others have kids from places outside of their city limits. Heck CJ SDK have no city, so yeah man kids are playing for them that live wherever. Man I guarantee you it is a kid on one of the WC teams right now that does not live in or go to school in WC. This whole Trotwood is recruiting them in Kindergarten spill is starting to get out of control... First they were recruiting them and setting them up with apartments, now it's there recruiting them early. I bet they got a budget for snickers bars, skittles and crayons to convince the kids to commit. Pitiful!! How about Coach Graham and Coach Rockhold coach the kids up and the kids have a winning attitude.. Can that be a reason they win? Maybe

In none of my posts have I claimed that Trotwood recruits. You are apparently blending my comments with others. All I have done is state my own experiences with Trotwood over the years. I have stated that Trotwood has lacked in sportsmanship and I have speculated that has been a possible factor in why they were not invited into the new league as one of multiple factors.
The Dayton Metro youth basketball league may not have residency rules, but the youth GWOC league they played in at the time absolutely did. Of course I canít prove rather or not the kids on that team lived in Trotwood or not, but regardless the team, coaches, and fans behaved the way they did. Through all my experiences involving youth, middle school, and high school sports, the only teams I have seen that consistently across the board runs up the scores this way is Trotwood. Sure they are within the rules but it shouldnít be that hard to figure out why the other schools donít want this school in their league.
You are equating a bad experience in 5 or 6th grade basketball to Trotwood showing poor sportsmanship in HS football in 2017. You have indicted a whole program based upon a team of 11 year- olds and their parents "7-8 years ago". SMH!! If I remember correctly didn't you guys and your parents have an issue with kids and parents at a recent basketball game vs. Trotwood? Weren't some of our kids trying to help break-up the situation initially before it got out of hand? Was that Sportsmanship? Check that stats of the WC football game this year. How many carries did Hargrove have? When were the starters pulled out in that game? That was some sportsmanship for you A_ _? Keep making those excuses, the thing is when Troy and Piqua are mud stomping you it will be OK. Like those Direct TV commercials, "some people just like drinking spoiled milk". Its what they do...
  #283  
Old 02-12-18, 03:20 PM
VBHSFB04 VBHSFB04 is offline
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[QUOTE=member1;6985585]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCfan View Post

You are equating a bad experience in 5 or 6th grade basketball to Trotwood showing poor sportsmanship in HS football in 2017. You have indicted a whole program based upon a team of 11 year- olds and their parents "7-8 years ago". SMH!! If I remember correctly didn't you guys and your parents have an issue with kids and parents at a recent basketball game vs. Trotwood? Weren't some of our kids trying to help break-up the situation initially before it got out of hand? Was that Sportsmanship? Check that stats of the WC football game this year. How many carries did Hargrove have? When were the starters pulled out in that game? That was some sportsmanship for you A_ _? Keep making those excuses, the thing is when Troy and Piqua are mud stomping you it will be OK. Like those Direct TV commercials, "some people just like drinking spoiled milk". Its what they do...
  #284  
Old 02-12-18, 03:29 PM
gocomets21 gocomets21 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Final Say View Post
You never here about any dominant state level team having to worry about not having a place to play unless it happens to be a state level dominant team that is predominately African American.
That is simply not true. The SCOL said see you later to Clinton-Massie, who like Trotwood, had a long, extended run of dominance in football.
  #285  
Old 02-12-18, 03:32 PM
The Final Say The Final Say is offline
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Clinton-Massie

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Originally Posted by gocomets21 View Post
That is simply not true. The SCOL said see you later to Clinton-Massie, who like Trotwood, had a long, extended run of dominance in football.
Where did they end up going again? Was it independent like Winton Woods?
  #286  
Old 02-12-18, 03:36 PM
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[QUOTE=member1;6985585]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCfan View Post

You are equating a bad experience in 5 or 6th grade basketball to Trotwood showing poor sportsmanship in HS football in 2017. You have indicted a whole program based upon a team of 11 year- olds and their parents "7-8 years ago". SMH!! If I remember correctly didn't you guys and your parents have an issue with kids and parents at a recent basketball game vs. Trotwood? Weren't some of our kids trying to help break-up the situation initially before it got out of hand? Was that Sportsmanship? Check that stats of the WC football game this year. How many carries did Hargrove have? When were the starters pulled out in that game? That was some sportsmanship for you A_ _? Keep making those excuses, the thing is when Troy and Piqua are mud stomping you it will be OK. Like those Direct TV commercials, "some people just like drinking spoiled milk". Its what they do...
I certainly havenít claimed that WC is anything. The events taking place in WC sports are embarrassing. Having players get in a fight and having one arrested is very sad. None of this changes the extreme whoopings that Trotwood has put on the majority of their opponents. They are at a different level which they prove constantly by scoring 120 in b-ball and 70 in football and everybody knows it.
Are you saying that you would rather go into this new league and continue not being challenged? My assertion is simply that if two teams talent levels are so drastically different then they shouldnít be playing in the first place.
The point of bringing up youth sports is to show that Trotwood for years at all levels beats down their opponents without much mercy. Apparently their own AD emailed the other schools and told them they were going to continue doing it and you still donít get why these schools are leaving.
  #287  
Old 02-12-18, 03:43 PM
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At this point who cares. All of the complaining on both sides won't change a thing the schools will do looking out for what is in their best interests. They feel that is leaving Trotwood out, sad but its happening. Im sure Trotwood will look out for themselves now also and Im also sure Ram Nation will keep rolling.

Hopefully Trotwood can join the big schools on the Northmont, Boro, Burg, Lebanon side. Great fit. Will still probably win the money sports every year and make playoff runs. Hell it may help Trotwood as their players will mostly play all game and they could go 6-4/5-5 and most likely still make the playoffs in football with points from D1/D2.
  #288  
Old 02-12-18, 03:48 PM
BrutusBuckeye90 BrutusBuckeye90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBHSFB04 View Post
I just wonder why Trotwood would want to be in a league that has so many teams that they would steamroll by halftime.
They don't.

It's like the girl that chases after you for years and you ignore her. Then she quits chasing you and suddenly you want her.

You can't about weak competition and then complain about not being included in a league with that same weak competition.
  #289  
Old 02-12-18, 04:05 PM
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What I do get is Trotwood was that school on the other end of those beatings. For years. But they did not run and go play with their ball somewhere else. They cowboyed the f--- up and got better. And to really be honest it ain't WC that Ramnation is complaining about...It the old GMVC foes who along with Tippy conspired to make this mess. WC has it's own set of problems and 5 and 6th grade basketball in Trotwood 8 years ago ain't one of them. But again I say, when ya'll are on the bottom of Troy and Piqua's boots I just hope you claim the same thing. Because it's coming. Oh buddy it's coming.
  #290  
Old 02-12-18, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BrutusBuckeye90 View Post
They don't.

It's like the girl that chases after you for years and you ignore her. Then she quits chasing you and suddenly you want her.

You can't about weak competition and then complain about not being included in a league with that same weak competition.
More like that whack dude who wants to chase that hot girl but just gives the hell-up, lowering his expectations and starts taking advantage of the ugly ducklings by telling them how beautiful they are and convincing them that they love them. All while screwing them over and ultimately leaving them behind! (WC, Stebbins and Fairborn).

Real men keep chasing that pretty girl! Lose weight, buy a new suit, get a haircut and step-up. Trotwood was that fat dude chasing that hot girl. After years of trying finally wifed her up and became the Kang! Nobody else wants the challenge. Content with being average!
  #291  
Old 02-12-18, 05:06 PM
TippIsGreat TippIsGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by VBHSFB04 View Post
Troy has made the playoffs 3 times since 2005. 2010, 2016, 2017. Piqua has not made the playoffs since 2007. Butler has gone twice since 05. Sidney this past year for the first time in 30 years. Fact is Piqua and Troy were always the big dogs in the GMVC and then there was everybody else. Butler had their run around 99-02. Northmont just started their run about the time the GWOC formed. Piqua and Troy are not what they used to be. I think even their supporters would admit that. Trotwood has been rolling since 2007 with the exception of 2008 which, correct me if I'm wrong, was the year Mo was suspended the first 5 games. Started 0-5. No comparison to the MAC. IMO
Piqua made the playoffs in 2015 and lost to Tipp.
  #292  
Old 02-12-18, 06:24 PM
TroyTrojan05 TroyTrojan05 is offline
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Troy made the playoffs in 10,11,16,17.

10 vs pick central
11 vs upper Arlington
16 vs miamisburg and Anderson
17 vs Anderson
  #293  
Old 02-12-18, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by member1 View Post
More like that whack dude who wants to chase that hot girl but just gives the hell-up, lowering his expectations and starts taking advantage of the ugly ducklings by telling them how beautiful they are and convincing them that they love them. All while screwing them over and ultimately leaving them behind! (WC, Stebbins and Fairborn).

Real men keep chasing that pretty girl! Lose weight, buy a new suit, get a haircut and step-up. Trotwood was that fat dude chasing that hot girl. After years of trying finally wifed her up and became the Kang! Nobody else wants the challenge. Content with being average!
Member1, I am serious here I am old school GMVC and will miss Twood.

How come the Rams are so bad at everything else, it is not helping them at all. Is it an Administration focus that does not put emphasis on the complete listing of sports needed at the big school level? Could the youth programs not have the maturity to produce average teams? This is your biggest problem. (Baseball, Soccer, Volleyball, Wrestling). Honestly, the Rams are so bad at all of those you leave the door open for all this chaos.
  #294  
Old 02-12-18, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by yakyak View Post
Member1, I am serious here I am old school GMVC and will miss Twood.

How come the Rams are so bad at everything else, it is not helping them at all. Is it an Administration focus that does not put emphasis on the complete listing of sports needed at the big school level? Could the youth programs not have the maturity to produce average teams? This is your biggest problem. (Baseball, Soccer, Volleyball, Wrestling). Honestly, the Rams are so bad at all of those you leave the door open for all this chaos.
AND WC and Stebbins are better in all those sports? Right? You really know what the answer to this.. Stop it.
  #295  
Old 02-12-18, 08:18 PM
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Member1, I am serious here I am old school GMVC and will miss Twood.

How come the Rams are so bad at everything else, it is not helping them at all. Is it an Administration focus that does not put emphasis on the complete listing of sports needed at the big school level? Could the youth programs not have the maturity to produce average teams? This is your biggest problem. (Baseball, Soccer, Volleyball, Wrestling). Honestly, the Rams are so bad at all of those you leave the door open for all this chaos.
Trotwood girls soccer was actually pretty competitive this year.
  #296  
Old 02-12-18, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by member1 View Post
Trotwood girls soccer was actually pretty competitive this year.
Yeah so was boys tennis. You did not answer though why those other sports are the same as wc or steb. My guess no focus on youth. The other sports matter a lot.

Historically it's awfull.
  #297  
Old 02-12-18, 08:26 PM
NfamousWayneFan NfamousWayneFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
Trotwood girls soccer was actually pretty competitive this year.
They really didn't play anyone though.......

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Old 02-12-18, 08:28 PM
NfamousWayneFan NfamousWayneFan is offline
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But I have to admit, Wayne Girls soccer has been horrible lately. Hopefully I can help with that though.

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Old 02-12-18, 08:32 PM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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Originally Posted by member1 View Post
AND WC and Stebbins are better in all those sports? Right? You really know what the answer to this.. Stop it.
Twood f has finished last or near last in the all sports trophy every year as far back as the gwoc website goes. That matters to AD. It needs fixed sand it's a shame

I really wish this did not happened, but this all sports issue is bigger than I realized to the Ad's that I know.
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Old 02-12-18, 09:33 PM
gocomets21 gocomets21 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Final Say View Post
Where did they end up going again? Was it independent like Winton Woods?
They found a league, not sure what it is called, but with schools like New Richmond, Goshen, and Western Brown. Trotwood still has a league too. I donít compare Winton Woods to those two. Winton Woods didnít have a long, sustained run of dominance that those two did. The schools that left the FAVC to form the ECC were all on the east side of Cincinnati, which WW is not. It seemed like more of a geographic thing to me.
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