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  #1  
Old 09-22-14, 10:52 PM
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A question for Centerville fans....

After watching the Twood/Centerville game last Friday night I kinda feel that the new offensive scheme maybe just what they need to possibly get over the GCL Hurdle. The offense was balanced and the Vance kid was impressive with his accuracy and poise as a dual-threat QB. I even think the prior system may have had him bottled up a little bit. Imagine that kid with four years in a system like that? Anyway it always seemed that good Cville times would maul Dayton area D1 teams, go back and forth with Wayne then get to the playoffs and try to run right at the brick wall known as the GCL. Well, we all know that that water down by the river is a little stronger and those boys in those catholic schools seemed to enjoy a crack at that triple-option. Once it was stopped it was game over.. But now after watching last Friday, maybe mixing it up, keeping the defense off-balanced, using athletes in space, hell just letting the QB throw on downs other then 3rd, maybe, just maybe the Elks might have a chance? I was impressed even though I think Twood got some bad calls, especially that hold on the interception, but regardless of my bias opinions, I think the Elks looked like a team that has the tools to mix it up with the big boys. I like the new energy. It is a shame it took so long to adapt to the personnel vs. running the "system". I dare to say you guys may have missed out on a few deeper playoff runs with some of those teams of the past who where restricted by the "system". How many times are you going to run into a brick wall before you realize it might be easier to just go around it? Maybe the Elks have realized that. Hey good luck! It would be great for a Dayton D1 to get through Catholic Row.
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  #2  
Old 09-22-14, 11:37 PM
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The answer is, the ELKS are 4-0.
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Old 09-23-14, 05:16 AM
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Thumbs up 4-0!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_E_Woyote View Post
The answer is, the ELKS are 4-0.
Yup, We know. I also know this is a touchy subject with those that supported the prior regime. I'm just sayin....The new look Elks, maybe have what it takes to get over the hurdle that's usually involves the archdiocese and some big bad dudes in blue and white or blue and yellow!
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  #4  
Old 09-23-14, 09:28 AM
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This team is still a work in progress. They made great strides between week 3 and week 4. My opinion is they aren't ready for the GCL type of competition yet but they have 6 more weeks to fine tune the new offense.

I also think the focus is still in the wrong place. The defense will dictate whether they can stay on the field with a GCL school or not. That has been a much bigger problem in the past than the offense.
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Old 09-23-14, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by E83 View Post
This team is still a work in progress. They made great strides between week 3 and week 4. My opinion is they aren't ready for the GCL type of competition yet but they have 6 more weeks to fine tune the new offense.

I also think the focus is still in the wrong place. The defense will dictate whether they can stay on the field with a GCL school or not. That has been a much bigger problem in the past than the offense.
In the event of a shoot out I think the Elks might now just have a little more Ammo. Solely my opinion...
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  #6  
Old 09-23-14, 11:31 AM
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The answer is, Centerville moves up to #4 in this weeks D-1 Ohio High School AP Poll: http://www.athensohiotoday.com/sport...21110322d.html
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  #7  
Old 09-23-14, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_E_Woyote View Post
The answer is, Centerville moves up to #4 in this weeks D-1 Ohio High School AP Poll: http://www.athensohiotoday.com/sport...21110322d.html
The next question is, will it look like that week 14 or 15????? I think the new system gives them a better shot. You were a triple option guy huh? It's cool. Change is hard.
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  #8  
Old 09-23-14, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
The next question is, will it look like that week 14 or 15????? I think the new system gives them a better shot. You were a triple option guy huh? It's cool. Change is hard.
This is a new system that new head coach Rodney Roberts has brung to Centerville. The ELKS are still learning and getting use to the system. So far it has worked to great success, as the ELKS are now 4-0. It would make sense that the ELKS should be improving as the season progresses, as they better learn and get use to their new system of play. The ELKS have done great so far, so I'm really excited about the big games that await down the road.
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  #9  
Old 09-24-14, 12:17 AM
UcantCatchMe UcantCatchMe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
Yup, We know. I also know this is a touchy subject with those that supported the prior regime. I'm just sayin....The new look Elks, maybe have what it takes to get over the hurdle that's usually involves the archdiocese and some big bad dudes in blue and white or blue and yellow!
You beat Trotwood by a TD, if you think that has any kind of relationship to playing GCL schools and being successful against them than I hate to tell you that you are wrong. I agree with you about the scheme and mixing things up offensively. This wont be the year for a breakthrough though in my opinion. Under the old regime this was the time of year that all Elk supporters talk about it possibly being the year for a breakthrough. Centerville always starts fast out of the gate and ends up in a tailspin by Week 8 and going into the playoffs. Maybe this year is different but I think not.
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  #10  
Old 09-24-14, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
The next question is, will it look like that week 14 or 15????? I think the new system gives them a better shot. You were a triple option guy huh? It's cool. Change is hard.
Centerville wasn't getting it done vs the gcl with the triple option... So it can't really get any worse--from a W-L prospective--with the new offense.

#4 is pretty good, but let's not forget that this same poll had eds #7.
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  #11  
Old 09-24-14, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UcantCatchMe View Post
You beat Trotwood by a TD, if you think that has any kind of relationship to playing GCL schools and being successful against them than I hate to tell you that you are wrong. I agree with you about the scheme and mixing things up offensively. This wont be the year for a breakthrough though in my opinion. Under the old regime this was the time of year that all Elk supporters talk about it possibly being the year for a breakthrough. Centerville always starts fast out of the gate and ends up in a tailspin by Week 8 and going into the playoffs. Maybe this year is different but I think not.
Not true at all.
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Old 09-24-14, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UcantCatchMe View Post
You beat Trotwood by a TD, if you think that has any kind of relationship to playing GCL schools and being successful against them than I hate to tell you that you are wrong. I agree with you about the scheme and mixing things up offensively. This wont be the year for a breakthrough though in my opinion. Under the old regime this was the time of year that all Elk supporters talk about it possibly being the year for a breakthrough. Centerville always starts fast out of the gate and ends up in a tailspin by Week 8 and going into the playoffs. Maybe this year is different but I think not.
I like the point you made. Centerville seems to not do so well during the back half of the season. I have heard that this issue had a lot to do with their extremely physical practices. I'm not close to the program so maybe somebody else can provide more accurate information.
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  #13  
Old 09-24-14, 08:24 AM
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Elk 83 nailed it...
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  #14  
Old 09-24-14, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_E_Woyote View Post
The answer is, the ELKS are 4-0.
Last year, under Ullery and running the option, the Elks went 6-0 before finally losing.

At this point last year, they were 4-0 and had won by an average margin of 26 points.

This year they are 4-0 and have won by an average margin of 7 points.

Why is everyone so much more excited this year because last year, under Ullery and running the option, they were better at this point?

Last edited by FBGuy; 09-24-14 at 09:08 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-24-14, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBGuy View Post
Last year, under Ullery and running the option, the Elks went 6-0 before finally losing.

At this point last year, they were 4-0 and had won by an average margin of 26 points.

This year they are 4-0 and have won by an average margin of 7 points.

Why is everyone so much more excited this year because last year, under Ullery and running the option, they were better at this point?
What makes you think that I wasn't as excited about last seasons 4-0 start for the ELKS, as I am about this seasons 4-0 start?
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  #16  
Old 09-24-14, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
The next question is, will it look like that week 14 or 15????? I think the new system gives them a better shot. You were a triple option guy huh? It's cool. Change is hard.
Week 14 or 15? The new system won't be needed until then? It's awful presumptuous to think Centerville will make it to Week 14, when they have problems making it past Week 10, 11, and/or 12 in the last two decades (as far back as I can remember).
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  #17  
Old 09-24-14, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_E_Woyote View Post
What makes you think that I wasn't as excited about last seasons 4-0 start for the ELKS, as I am about this seasons 4-0 start?
That is why I said "everyone". On this thread, and in other Centerville threads, people seem to be super excited about this years team and their offense. I just pointed out that this years team is not performing as well as the team last year. Yet, there wasn't nearly as much excitement last year for some reason. I just wondered what that was the case.
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  #18  
Old 09-24-14, 02:14 PM
UcantCatchMe UcantCatchMe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBGuy View Post
That is why I said "everyone". On this thread, and in other Centerville threads, people seem to be super excited about this years team and their offense. I just pointed out that this years team is not performing as well as the team last year. Yet, there wasn't nearly as much excitement last year for some reason. I just wondered what that was the case.
Alot of the games Centerville lost they lost because they did not have the ability to come from behind. That was mostly due to the offense. With the new offense they are running and from what they have shown so far this year, they can now come from behind and win. Could be wrong but I honestly believe that is where the excitement comes from. Once or if Miamsburg starts making the playoffs consistently and they end up running into the meat grinder of teams that are in Region 2 you will soon understand why offensive balance is important.
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  #19  
Old 09-24-14, 02:45 PM
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Well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by UcantCatchMe View Post
Alot of the games Centerville lost they lost because they did not have the ability to come from behind. That was mostly due to the offense. With the new offense they are running and from what they have shown so far this year, they can now come from behind and win. Could be wrong but I honestly believe that is where the excitement comes from. Once or if Miamsburg starts making the playoffs consistently and they end up running into the meat grinder of teams that are in Region 2 you will soon understand why offensive balance is important.
The new offense seems to be a breath of fresh air! AHHHHHHH!
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  #20  
Old 09-24-14, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBGuy View Post
That is why I said "everyone". On this thread, and in other Centerville threads, people seem to be super excited about this years team and their offense. I just pointed out that this years team is not performing as well as the team last year. Yet, there wasn't nearly as much excitement last year for some reason. I just wondered what that was the case.
The ELKS were 4-0 at the start of last season, and 4-0 at the start of this season. But the ELKS have played a tougher schedule the first four games of this season, than the first four games from last season. So actually, the ELKS are probably playing better at the start of this season, than the start of last season. If you go back and check, compare the teams, then you should see that this is the case.
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Old 09-24-14, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBGuy View Post
That is why I said "everyone". On this thread, and in other Centerville threads, people seem to be super excited about this years team and their offense. I just pointed out that this years team is not performing as well as the team last year. Yet, there wasn't nearly as much excitement last year for some reason. I just wondered what that was the case.
Did you seriously have to wonder????
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  #22  
Old 09-25-14, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_E_Woyote View Post
The ELKS were 4-0 at the start of last season, and 4-0 at the start of this season. But the ELKS have played a tougher schedule the first four games of this season, than the first four games from last season. So actually, the ELKS are probably playing better at the start of this season, than the start of last season. If you go back and check, compare the teams, then you should see that this is the case.
I have to disagree there.

2013 Game 1 - Pick Central (8-3) Lost in round one of playoffs
2013 Game 2 - Springboro (9-2) Lost in round one of playoffs
2013 Game 3 - Withrow (8-3) Lost in round one of playoffs
2013 Game 4 - Lebanon (7-3) Didn't make playoffs

Total 32-11

2014 Game 1 Glenbard, IL (2-2) Not sure if they will make playoffs
2014 Game 2 Springboro (3-1) On track to make playoffs
2014 Game 3 Lebanon (2-2) Probably won't make playoffs
2014 Game 4 Trotwood (3-1) On track to make playoffs

Total 10-6

This year's teams already have over half of last year's losses which does include three playoff losses. They were actually 32-8 in the regular season. This year's teams would have to finish 22-2 to match last year's records. I don't think that is going to happen. Also, look at last year's margin of victory...much more superior than this year. Granted it was a different offense but the numbers don't lie.
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  #23  
Old 09-25-14, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior78 View Post
I have to disagree there.

2013 Game 1 - Pick Central (8-3) Lost in round one of playoffs
2013 Game 2 - Springboro (9-2) Lost in round one of playoffs
2013 Game 3 - Withrow (8-3) Lost in round one of playoffs
2013 Game 4 - Lebanon (7-3) Didn't make playoffs

Total 32-11

2014 Game 1 Glenbard, IL (2-2) Not sure if they will make playoffs
2014 Game 2 Springboro (3-1) On track to make playoffs
2014 Game 3 Lebanon (2-2) Probably won't make playoffs
2014 Game 4 Trotwood (3-1) On track to make playoffs

Total 10-6

This year's teams already have over half of last year's losses which does include three playoff losses. They were actually 32-8 in the regular season. This year's teams would have to finish 22-2 to match last year's records. I don't think that is going to happen. Also, look at last year's margin of victory...much more superior than this year. Granted it was a different offense but the numbers don't lie.
Actually, according to the vamp2syd power rating system (which is probably the best around), rates this years Centerville team to last years Centerville team, almost identical to each other, when both teams are at 4-0.

By looking at his power rating charts from this season and last season after each team had played four games, last seasons team had a power rating of 90.700 (#7 in the state), while this seasons team has one of 88.600 (#10 in the state). Pretty dang close.

Even though the ELKS have won their games by a closer margin this season, it's the tougher schedule that they've played this season that makes up the difference.

Both this season and last season, the ELKS played Springboro and Lebanon in their first four games of the season. Let's compare these two teams power ratings from this season to last after game four, using vamp2syd's power ratings:

This season: Springboro = 77.300 (#42) : Lebanon = 75.000 (#54)

Last season: Springboro = 75.000 (#59 ) : Lebanon = 61.300 (#184)

Springboro has a slightly higher rating this season, while Lebanon has a much higher rating this season.

So let's compare what's left. The first game from last season, the ELKS played Pickerington Central. This season, the ELKS played Glenbard North from Illinois first. Since vamp2syd doesn't rate out of state teams, I'll compare Pickerington Central to Trotwood-Madison (who the ELKS played last Friday). I choose these two teams, because they're closely matched.

This time last season, PC had a power rating of 79.733 (#32).
This is compared to a T-M power rating right now of 81.500 (#28).
So T-M does edge out PC in the power rating.

So the only game left to compare is, from last season it's Withrow, and this season's Glenbard North (IL).

Last season at this time, Withrow had a power rating of 71.600 (#81). Since vamp2syd has no rating for out of state teams, I looked up Glenbard North on Cal Preps, and found them currently ranked #30 in the state of Illinois (compared to vamp2syd rating Withrow #81 in Ohio).

Cal Preps seems to do a pretty good job of rating teams, but of course not quite as good as vamp2syd. But Glenbard North is an obvious choice over Withrow, with the info that's here.

So definitely, the ELKS have played a tougher schedule the first four games of this season, over the first four of last season. When you really want to look at the numbers, just go to the master vamp2syd.

Vamp2syd power rankings from this time last season:
http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257507

Vamp2syd power ranking after game four this season:
http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270362
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  #24  
Old 09-25-14, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member1 View Post
After watching the Twood/Centerville game last Friday night I kinda feel that the new offensive scheme maybe just what they need to possibly get over the GCL Hurdle. The offense was balanced and the Vance kid was impressive with his accuracy and poise as a dual-threat QB. I even think the prior system may have had him bottled up a little bit. Imagine that kid with four years in a system like that? Anyway it always seemed that good Cville times would maul Dayton area D1 teams, go back and forth with Wayne then get to the playoffs and try to run right at the brick wall known as the GCL. Well, we all know that that water down by the river is a little stronger and those boys in those catholic schools seemed to enjoy a crack at that triple-option. Once it was stopped it was game over.. But now after watching last Friday, maybe mixing it up, keeping the defense off-balanced, using athletes in space, hell just letting the QB throw on downs other then 3rd, maybe, just maybe the Elks might have a chance? I was impressed even though I think Twood got some bad calls, especially that hold on the interception, but regardless of my bias opinions, I think the Elks looked like a team that has the tools to mix it up with the big boys. I like the new energy. It is a shame it took so long to adapt to the personnel vs. running the "system". I dare to say you guys may have missed out on a few deeper playoff runs with some of those teams of the past who where restricted by the "system". How many times are you going to run into a brick wall before you realize it might be easier to just go around it? Maybe the Elks have realized that. Hey good luck! It would be great for a Dayton D1 to get through Catholic Row.
They have looked a lot better then most thought. Take one game at a time Trotwood is good but would be bottom of gcl
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Old 09-25-14, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_E_Woyote View Post
Actually, according to the vamp2syd power rating system (which is probably the best around), rates this years Centerville team to last years Centerville team, almost identical to each other, when both teams are at 4-0.

By looking at his power rating charts from this season and last season after each team had played four games, last seasons team had a power rating of 90.700 (#7 in the state), while this seasons team has one of 88.600 (#10 in the state). Pretty dang close.

Even though the ELKS have won their games by a closer margin this season, it's the tougher schedule that they've played this season that makes up the difference.

Both this season and last season, the ELKS played Springboro and Lebanon in their first four games of the season. Let's compare these two teams power ratings from this season to last after game four, using vamp2syd's power ratings:

This season: Springboro = 77.300 (#42) : Lebanon = 75.000 (#54)

Last season: Springboro = 75.000 (#59 ) : Lebanon = 61.300 (#184)

Springboro has a slightly higher rating this season, while Lebanon has a much higher rating this season.

So let's compare what's left. The first game from last season, the ELKS played Pickerington Central. This season, the ELKS played Glenbard North from Illinois first. Since vamp2syd doesn't rate out of state teams, I'll compare Pickerington Central to Trotwood-Madison (who the ELKS played last Friday). I choose these two teams, because they're closely matched.

This time last season, PC had a power rating of 79.733 (#32).
This is compared to a T-M power rating right now of 81.500 (#28).
So T-M does edge out PC in the power rating.

So the only game left to compare is, from last season it's Withrow, and this season's Glenbard North (IL).

Last season at this time, Withrow had a power rating of 71.600 (#81). Since vamp2syd has no rating for out of state teams, I looked up Glenbard North on Cal Preps, and found them currently ranked #30 in the state of Illinois (compared to vamp2syd rating Withrow #81 in Ohio).

Cal Preps seems to do a pretty good job of rating teams, but of course not quite as good as vamp2syd. But Glenbard North is an obvious choice over Withrow, with the info that's here.

So definitely, the ELKS have played a tougher schedule the first four games of this season, over the first four of last season. When you really want to look at the numbers, just go to the master vamp2syd.

Vamp2syd power rankings from this time last season:
http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257507

Vamp2syd power ranking after game four this season:
http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270362
I actually do rate out of state teams as long as they have played an Ohio team and up to the point of that game. The ratings do look different so I do not list them but putting Glenbard North into the Ohio ratings they would be ranked #150 with a power rating at roughly 64.000, they would be a 14 point projected winner over Withrow on a neutral field.
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Old 09-25-14, 05:01 PM
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I actually do rate out of state teams as long as they have played an Ohio team and up to the point of that game. The ratings do look different so I do not list them but putting Glenbard North into the Ohio ratings they would be ranked #150 with a power rating at roughly 64.000, they would be a 14 point projected winner over Withrow on a neutral field.
Thanks vamp. I was comparing Glenbard North (IL) from this season, to the Withrow of last season. At this time last season, you had Withrow ranked #81 in Ohio.

I'm surprised you would have Glenbard North rated down at #150 for Ohio, since they only lost by 5 points to Centerville. Cal Preps has Glenbard North ranked #30 in Illinois. I was thinking that Glenbard North would be at least #50 if they were in Ohio. But maybe Ohio is a whole lot better in football that Illinois.
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Old 09-25-14, 05:05 PM
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The offense is a work in progress with the line playing better each week. Improvement is the defense, especially after week 2. Do you think those big d lineman wouldn't have been pulled over to the offensive side if Ullery was still coaching? DBs started playing up tighter starting at Lebanon. This team will go as far as the defense takes them. And yes in years past I do believe the kids were physically and mentally exhausted around week 8 due to a long tough grind from very hard physical practices.
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Old 09-25-14, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_E_Woyote View Post
Thanks vamp. I was comparing Glenbard North (IL) from this season, to the Withrow of last season. At this time last season, you had Withrow ranked #81 in Ohio.

I'm surprised you would have Glenbard North rated down at #150 for Ohio, since they only lost by 5 points to Centerville. Cal Preps has Glenbard North ranked #30 in Illinois. I was thinking that Glenbard North would be at least #50 if they were in Ohio. But maybe Ohio is a whole lot better in football that Illinois.
Illinois only has a hand full of teams that are comparable to the top 50 or so in Ohio and then it drops of quite a bit. Glenbard North is one of the better teams in that state over the last few years but they lost a lot coming into this year. I stated on the Centerville/Glenbard North thread that this years North team is equivalent to a mid level GWOC-C team. I projected North to finish with 5 to 6 wins this season. Centerville was up by a large margin before North made it interesting late.
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  #29  
Old 09-25-14, 08:43 PM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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I did not update Glenbard North's latest game. The updated power rating for them is 66.900 which would put them at #117 in Ohio.
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  #30  
Old 09-25-14, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_E_Woyote View Post
Actually, according to the vamp2syd power rating system (which is probably the best around), rates this years Centerville team to last years Centerville team, almost identical to each other, when both teams are at 4-0.

By looking at his power rating charts from this season and last season after each team had played four games, last seasons team had a power rating of 90.700 (#7 in the state), while this seasons team has one of 88.600 (#10 in the state). Pretty dang close.

Even though the ELKS have won their games by a closer margin this season, it's the tougher schedule that they've played this season that makes up the difference.

Both this season and last season, the ELKS played Springboro and Lebanon in their first four games of the season. Let's compare these two teams power ratings from this season to last after game four, using vamp2syd's power ratings:

This season: Springboro = 77.300 (#42) : Lebanon = 75.000 (#54)

Last season: Springboro = 75.000 (#59 ) : Lebanon = 61.300 (#184)

Springboro has a slightly higher rating this season, while Lebanon has a much higher rating this season.

So let's compare what's left. The first game from last season, the ELKS played Pickerington Central. This season, the ELKS played Glenbard North from Illinois first. Since vamp2syd doesn't rate out of state teams, I'll compare Pickerington Central to Trotwood-Madison (who the ELKS played last Friday). I choose these two teams, because they're closely matched.

This time last season, PC had a power rating of 79.733 (#32).
This is compared to a T-M power rating right now of 81.500 (#28).
So T-M does edge out PC in the power rating.

So the only game left to compare is, from last season it's Withrow, and this season's Glenbard North (IL).

Last season at this time, Withrow had a power rating of 71.600 (#81). Since vamp2syd has no rating for out of state teams, I looked up Glenbard North on Cal Preps, and found them currently ranked #30 in the state of Illinois (compared to vamp2syd rating Withrow #81 in Ohio).

Cal Preps seems to do a pretty good job of rating teams, but of course not quite as good as vamp2syd. But Glenbard North is an obvious choice over Withrow, with the info that's here.

So definitely, the ELKS have played a tougher schedule the first four games of this season, over the first four of last season. When you really want to look at the numbers, just go to the master vamp2syd.

Vamp2syd power rankings from this time last season:
http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257507

Vamp2syd power ranking after game four this season:
http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270362
Good analysis. We will have to agree to disagree. I think you will agree though that the real measuring stick for Centerville is week 7 (Northmont), week 10 (Wayne), and most importantly weeks>10 when they could play a GCL South school.
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