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  #211  
Old 05-01-19, 08:05 AM
Sports Jock and Chad Sports Jock and Chad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post
Interesting how a discussion on a new head coach spiraled into the worn out old argument between public vs private schools.

Like almost every issue in this country those debating make it a zero sum game where there has to be a winner and loser.

There are successful high school students from every public and private high school. With the right drive and commitment a student at the most challenging public school can achieve academic success.

In general the environment in private schools is more conducive to academic success for a number of reasons. The two biggest reasons, in my opinion, include the ability to select the students who attend and who can stay along with the support of parents. The environment tends to be better because schools can exert more discipline, including expulsion, much easier than a public school.

In general their is greater parental support given the $$'s they are paying for private school. Again that is not to say that parents of public school students are not supportive, but I think the overall support is greater, which leads to very positive academic outcomes

And to summarize both public and private schools have:

Bad Kids
Bad Teachers
Good Kids
Good Teachers
High achieving students
Low achieving students
Kids that get into Ivies
Kids that become very successful adults
Kids that become unproductive adults

Private schools simply have certain advantages due to their structure that create a better learning environment


90% of my family went to private, catholic schools. My wife and I chose to send our kids to public school for several reasons. The top 2 would be diversity and education. We wanted our kids to attend with people of all faiths, races and certainly to be coeducational. The world outside of your little bubble is comprised of folks from all walks of life. Why not develop relationships and friendships with all these kids? As for the education, I saw Walnut Hills (my kids did not attend there) had something like 14 kids attain perfect scores on their ACT test...On the athletic front, most parents live in a delusional world...a few kids from the big privates will do well in college sports but outside of football almost all of these opportunities arise from club sports... High school sports have mostly become irrelevant (I hate it but it is the truth)...for many of these kids when they step outside of the southwest Ohio mini culture and realize the world is not comprised of white, catholic conservatives it can be disarming...You send your kids to privates for a number of reasons but don't kid yourself that the education is superior.
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  #212  
Old 05-01-19, 09:13 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports Jock and Chad View Post
90% of my family went to private, catholic schools. My wife and I chose to send our kids to public school for several reasons. The top 2 would be diversity and education. We wanted our kids to attend with people of all faiths, races and certainly to be coeducational. The world outside of your little bubble is comprised of folks from all walks of life. Why not develop relationships and friendships with all these kids? As for the education, I saw Walnut Hills (my kids did not attend there) had something like 14 kids attain perfect scores on their ACT test...On the athletic front, most parents live in a delusional world...a few kids from the big privates will do well in college sports but outside of football almost all of these opportunities arise from club sports... High school sports have mostly become irrelevant (I hate it but it is the truth)...for many of these kids when they step outside of the southwest Ohio mini culture and realize the world is not comprised of white, catholic conservatives it can be disarming...You send your kids to privates for a number of reasons but don't kid yourself that the education is superior.
There's some truth to this but there is also tremendous benefit from that mini-culture as well. I can't tell you the number of people I know that thought "experiencing the world" and "getting out of this bubble" was the way to go only to find themselves divorced, their job owning their lives, lonely, and returning back to their roots eventually.

While that Christian-based, conservative and family-based lifestyle has it's downsides, it also gives you a sense of belonging, comfort, peace, and fulfillment, which can often be missed when you venture out to find "something better". As people age, these things become vital to happiness.

Finding a balance of both is key, especially in today's world where you will be forced to expand your thinking and acceptance.
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  #213  
Old 05-02-19, 07:12 AM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports Jock and Chad View Post
90% of my family went to private, catholic schools. My wife and I chose to send our kids to public school for several reasons. The top 2 would be diversity and education. We wanted our kids to attend with people of all faiths, races and certainly to be coeducational. The world outside of your little bubble is comprised of folks from all walks of life. Why not develop relationships and friendships with all these kids? As for the education, I saw Walnut Hills (my kids did not attend there) had something like 14 kids attain perfect scores on their ACT test...On the athletic front, most parents live in a delusional world...a few kids from the big privates will do well in college sports but outside of football almost all of these opportunities arise from club sports... High school sports have mostly become irrelevant (I hate it but it is the truth)...for many of these kids when they step outside of the southwest Ohio mini culture and realize the world is not comprised of white, catholic conservatives it can be disarming...You send your kids to privates for a number of reasons but don't kid yourself that the education is superior.
You may want to reread my post. No where did I say the education was superior. I said the learning environment was better. The nature of private schools provide them with more flexibility in creating an environment condusive to learning. There is greater discipline and that is driven by the ability to expel students who are disruptive to that environment. I have kids attend both public and private, along with doing some volunteer work in public schools. My opinion is based on those experiences. I actually acknowledge the fact that motivated students can excel in either environment.

Mentioning Walnut Hills as proof that the education is the same is not a valid argument. WH has an entrance exam, which help support my point at creating a better environment. They are hand selecting the students they admit, which is an advantage of the private schools.

I am not sure why you brought up sports as I did not reference sports in my post. But since you did, I will agree with you. I do not believe that playing a sport at a private school gives you greater chances at playing in college. Private schools in some sports (football) have had greater success in winning at the high school level, especially in D1. But if your end game is getting your kid a college scholarship then I don't think sending them to a private school increases those chances.

As for your point about greater diversity I would agree that a public school generally provides greater diversity. That does not mean that kids who going to a diverse public school are more comfortable or accepting of people of different backgrounds. Just like it does not mean that kids attending a less diverse private school are somehow more prejudiced or uncomfortable around people of different races.

Again my post made one distinction between public and private schools, which was the better learning environment. Obviously there are many public school districts which have had excellent academic outcomes (Sycamore, Mason, Indian Hill, Mariemont to name a few). But there are also students who attended schools that don't have the same academic track record who have achieved outstanding outcomes and gone on to great colleges.

So thank you for taking the time to misread my post and debunk statements that I never made.
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  #214  
Old 05-02-19, 09:57 AM
Kurt Rambis Kurt Rambis is offline
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Anyways.... St X basketball...
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  #215  
Old 05-02-19, 06:09 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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St X basketball will be as good as the coach, just like baseball (I think the jury is in on him now and it is not good) and football, cross country, swimming (all 17 coaches), ... etc. If X wants to be good at something, it can and will be good at it. I will say this in response to the above post. Most parents who send their kids to the big privates expect their teachers and coaches to be exceptional. After all, the tuition at X and Moeller is very high. Moeller gets it. X...not so much. Only when alumni get involved.

Last edited by BASESWIMPARENT; 05-02-19 at 11:26 PM.
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  #216  
Old 05-02-19, 08:42 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
St X basketball will be as good as the coach, just like baseball (I think the jury is in on him now and it is not good) and football, cross country, swimming (all 17 coaches), ... etc. If X wants to be good at something, it can and will be good at it. I will say this in response to the above post. Most parents who send their kids to the big privates expect their teaches and coaches to be exceptional. After all, the tuition at X and Moeller is very high. Moeller gets it. X...not so much. Only when alumni get involved.
Are you implying football and swimming don't want to share the spotlight and get in the way of hiring top notch coaches in the other sports?
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  #217  
Old 05-02-19, 11:25 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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No. Football is strong because of Coach Specht. The program is successful despite the lack of real support of the administration. His program does nothing different than any other successful program in the state. He just holds players and coaches accountable. Swimming has the support of its own group of swimming alumni and they are a very influential group. All the other programs are just treated like regular high school programs like the publics do. Moeller, on the other hand, spends a significant amount of resources on its athletic programs and they get results because of that investment. Talking to Moeller parents very recently, this is absolutely expected by them.
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  #218  
Old 05-03-19, 12:23 AM
1 time 1 time is offline
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Bingo ! Exception to the rule, not the norm. That’s why the strong survive and the rest are chasing the cats tail !
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  #219  
Old 05-03-19, 08:05 AM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
No. Football is strong because of Coach Specht. The program is successful despite the lack of real support of the administration. His program does nothing different than any other successful program in the state. He just holds players and coaches accountable. Swimming has the support of its own group of swimming alumni and they are a very influential group. All the other programs are just treated like regular high school programs like the publics do. Moeller, on the other hand, spends a significant amount of resources on its athletic programs and they get results because of that investment. Talking to Moeller parents very recently, this is absolutely expected by them.
I'm not arguing in any way, I'm just curious as to why you say the Admin doesn't have football's back?

As an outsider, you can see the investment Moeller makes. It's impressive. And what is the expectation of Moeller parents? Is it money, time, or both?
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  #220  
Old 05-03-19, 01:05 PM
Don Flamenco Don Flamenco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
No. Football is strong because of Coach Specht. The program is successful despite the lack of real support of the administration. His program does nothing different than any other successful program in the state. He just holds players and coaches accountable. Swimming has the support of its own group of swimming alumni and they are a very influential group. All the other programs are just treated like regular high school programs like the publics do. Moeller, on the other hand, spends a significant amount of resources on its athletic programs and they get results because of that investment. Talking to Moeller parents very recently, this is absolutely expected by them.
I think this is an issue at several schools. Moeller's commitment to athletics is unbelievably impressive. They make it work without damaging their school brand or academic reputation. Lakewood St Ed's is the same way. As I think you said in another post there are about 5-6 schools in the state that could be on a similar level athletics-wise with the St. Ed's and Moeller's. Elder and St X are absolutely two of those, but like you said they just don't seem to have the same overall commitment to athletics that the other two do, at least not with their current administrations. It can be frustrating when you know the school has that kind of athletic potential but doesn't take full advantage of it.
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  #221  
Old 05-03-19, 02:28 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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This is why I hate when Elder people state "we will never be a state contender again". Yes, if the administration continues to run with status quo, then yes, the best days are behind us.

It's OK for athletics to be of equal importance at your school. You can have that without losing the spiritual and educational aspects. In fact, many times, athletics supports the spiritual and education. An equal third isn't a broken model.

It's not up to the school to decide for families what's most important.
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  #222  
Old 05-03-19, 04:54 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by Kurt Rambis View Post
Anyways.... St X basketball...
...has no where to go but up! Next years seniors were in 1st grade the last time they beat Moeller...
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  #223  
Old 05-03-19, 07:36 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
I'm not arguing in any way, I'm just curious as to why you say the Admin doesn't have football's back?

As an outsider, you can see the investment Moeller makes. It's impressive. And what is the expectation of Moeller parents? Is it money, time, or both?
When coach Rasso retired, there was serious talk in the administration as to maybe interviewing outside candidates.
When X won its first State Championship, the administration wanted to cut the football staff because it started to allocate the cost of the new stadium to the football program and they thought that the football budget was too high. At the time, almost 25% of the student body was involved in football.
If one pays attention to the coaching staff, there has been a steady attrition of quality assistant coaches. I think that may be changing this year.

There was an attempt by the football alums to start a football booster group so as to provide funds for the team to play teams in other states as X was having some real problems getting games (no offense to Walnut Hills). That effort was squashed and veiled threats were made to said alums that future admissions may be at stake.

Moeller parents expect great coaching regardless of the price. That includes time in the off season. Baseball is a great example. There are 3 varsity head coaches sitting on Moeller's bench. Not one of them is cheap. One was Maderia's head coach, one was the CHCA head coach and he was actively recruited for the Loveland head coach job last year.

Last edited by BASESWIMPARENT; 05-03-19 at 10:17 PM.
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  #224  
Old 05-03-19, 10:33 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Interesting...it would seem the schools would want a group of alumni providing funds. Did they feel they would lose control?

Asking because I honestly don't know, do the other GCL schools not dedicate coaches to off-season development? I always assumed all coaches for all sport had pretty stringent off-season expectations.
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  #225  
Old 05-04-19, 02:16 AM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Yes, loss of control is the primary concern and the belief that a strong academic institution should not sully its reputation with a strong athletic program. Honestly, if X played its cards correctly, it would never lack for anything. But long term fear of loss of control (see the swim program), keeps the rest of the athletic department under-resourced relative to programs like Moeller's. But I do not compare X to just Moeller. I compare X to other private Catholic schools around the country and in the state of Ohio. As far as off season development, the baseball and basketball programs are not very ambitious. The wrestling program's off season and pre-high school program does not exist. I cannot speak for Moeller's other off season programs, but its baseball program is impressive and thorough. One coach told me that they could set the line-up on the first day of tryouts.
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