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  #31  
Old 03-13-17, 12:42 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
The more I hear and read the new healthcare bill is just a watered down Obamacare and yet the Liberals condemn it like it will cause the end of the world. I do have one question: Who decided that 26 was the right age to have people taken off the parents insurance? Is that the new age that people say they are now adults and should start to act like it?
It's actually 27 and 28 in some states. I think 26 is a age decided on because so many college kids are not graduating on time anymore, or taking masters courses, just pro-longing reality.

The major reason this was put into place is because so many of the young were not able to stay on their parents plans until age 23 as a full time student. So you're 18, you're not a full time student and you don't have alot of money. If you are relatively healthy, you gamble and not have health insurance. Now the problem is these uninsured young still get sick, have accidents and rack up bills, they can't pay them so the hospitals and doctors have to eat the cost, along with the indigent that they've always had to write off.

The whole deal with Obamacare was to shift the cost of the hospitals and doctors from writing off bad debt, to putting it on the backs of American business. It's really as simple as that. Of course we all know businesses have all kinds of money laying around and can just suck it up and pay for these things (tongue in cheek).

Until you can stomach people losing health care options, paying more and/ or not having coverage unless they can afford it, this problem won't get solved. The liberals feel that health care is a right, not a privilege. It goes back to the idea that $15 hour minimum wage just works for business and we of course know it does not.
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  #32  
Old 03-13-17, 12:45 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
A nice cell phone is about $30/mo under contract to buy a new one. Cable TV & internet costs me $167/mo, lottery costs what, $5 bucks a week if you're figuring 4 times a week, $20/mo.
Holy generalizations, Batman!

Also, lemme know where you got a cell phone plan for $30/mo. Lemme get dat.
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  #33  
Old 03-13-17, 12:47 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
I guess so. When I was 26 I had already did my military service, owned a house and traveled extensively. But then again, I was never a suck teat baby like a lot of these college kids today. They're freaking confused.
I was stoked I didn't have to pay healthcare until I was 26 years and one month old, honestly. Not that it costs me much, but it freed up some money to put towards student loans.

That's damn impressive you had a house paid off by 26!
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  #34  
Old 03-13-17, 12:55 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
Holy generalizations, Batman!

Also, lemme know where you got a cell phone plan for $30/mo. Lemme get dat.
That's the cost to buy a new phone through verizon per month. The actual plan is more, but it's basically accepted today that you have a cell phone. So your plan is the same no matter what.

He's talking about buying new phones, not still using the same phone for years or using a cheap flip phone, etc.
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  #35  
Old 03-13-17, 01:03 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
It's actually 27 and 28 in some states. I think 26 is a age decided on because so many college kids are not graduating on time anymore, or taking masters courses, just pro-longing reality.

The major reason this was put into place is because so many of the young were not able to stay on their parents plans until age 23 as a full time student. So you're 18, you're not a full time student and you don't have alot of money. If you are relatively healthy, you gamble and not have health insurance. Now the problem is these uninsured young still get sick, have accidents and rack up bills, they can't pay them so the hospitals and doctors have to eat the cost, along with the indigent that they've always had to write off.

The whole deal with Obamacare was to shift the cost of the hospitals and doctors from writing off bad debt, to putting it on the backs of American business. It's really as simple as that. Of course we all know businesses have all kinds of money laying around and can just suck it up and pay for these things (tongue in cheek).

Until you can stomach people losing health care options, paying more and/ or not having coverage unless they can afford it, this problem won't get solved. The liberals feel that health care is a right, not a privilege. It goes back to the idea that $15 hour minimum wage just works for business and we of course know it does not.
You don't just 'write off' debt. You still lost money on the deal. Those grossly inflated hospital bills reflect the attempt to recoup that money.My father's hospital bill for 2 days between the ER and a day in a hospital room was $19,000.
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  #36  
Old 03-13-17, 01:23 PM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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Funny how after Obamacare came into being that hospital costs did not go down actually they went up and so did the cost of insurance and you did not even get to keep your doctor if you wanted.
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  #37  
Old 03-13-17, 01:45 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
Funny how after Obamacare came into being that hospital costs did not go down actually they went up and so did the cost of insurance and you did not even get to keep your doctor if you wanted.
Two problems, the 'cost' attributed to the hospital varies based on who is paying. If it's an affiliated insurance company, it's the cheapest. If it's another out-of-network, there may be some negotiated discount. And then if you're a cash customer, they basically print whatever they want n the bill and then it's up to you to negotiate the price. And they do actually negotiate.

As for costs going up, that's just the act of medical breakthroughs. Every new treatment becomes more costly than the last. There's very rarely some new treatment that is as cheap as an Advil. So, unless you want 'death panels' determine who can and cannot get care based on cost, then everyone gets the highest care possible and then we all have to pay for it. One way or another.
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  #38  
Old 03-13-17, 01:46 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
That's the cost to buy a new phone through verizon per month. The actual plan is more, but it's basically accepted today that you have a cell phone. So your plan is the same no matter what.

He's talking about buying new phones, not still using the same phone for years or using a cheap flip phone, etc.
That is just absolutely false. But either way, your generalizations are far off from reality.
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  #39  
Old 03-13-17, 02:27 PM
HTFF HTFF is offline
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Whenever the government intervenes in the free market the price goes down and there is a corresponding rise in quality. Take government housing , for example
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  #40  
Old 03-13-17, 02:47 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is online now
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Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
Can we just stop at Obamacare repeal?
I would support that in a heartbeat.

Repeal it, cut the funding 100%, let people buy what they want or are willing to work for and if states want to tax the crap out of their own citizens to pay for Medicaid and Obamascam, let them do it.
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  #41  
Old 03-13-17, 02:53 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
.......

Until you can stomach people losing health care options, paying more and/ or not having coverage unless they can afford it, this problem won't get solved. The liberals feel that health care is a right, not a privilege. It goes back to the idea that $15 hour minimum wage just works for business and we of course know it does not.
I don't have a problem with there being different levels of care based on your ability to pay. Whether out of your own pocket, an employer plan, or one that you pay for individually. I also don't have a problem with each state deciding how much they should tax the crap out of their citizenry to pay for things not federally authorized in the Constitution.
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  #42  
Old 03-13-17, 03:00 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
A nice cell phone is about $30/mo under contract to buy a new one. Cable TV & internet costs me $167/mo, lottery costs what, $5 bucks a week if you're figuring 4 times a week, $20/mo.

Meanwhile, my insurance costs $970/mo.

Yeah, so, let's try that again and stop blaming poor people who make near minimum wage for 'living the high life' and not knowing how to afford something they can't possibly afford.
If you're paying $970/month now then you aren't "poor". Those who are " poor" are getting varying degrees of subsidies.

Bottom line for me is that prior to Obamacare my insurance was $157 a month, now it is over a $1000. I didn't get to keep my doctor either. The ACA has been a total disaster for me and my family.

I work full time as well as my wife. We make a nice living and are not eligible for subsidies. The ACA was designed to punish those of us who are productive members of society and reward those who are not productive members. Just another way to make citizens reliant on Government.

I'd be all for a repeal and get the government out of health care.
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  #43  
Old 03-13-17, 03:30 PM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
If you're paying $970/month now then you aren't "poor". Those who are " poor" are getting varying degrees of subsidies.

Bottom line for me is that prior to Obamacare my insurance was $157 a month, now it is over a $1000. I didn't get to keep my doctor either. The ACA has been a total disaster for me and my family.

I work full time as well as my wife. We make a nice living and are not eligible for subsidies. The ACA was designed to punish those of us who are productive members of society and reward those who are not productive members. Just another way to make citizens reliant on Government.

I'd be all for a repeal and get the government out of health care.
I work with ACA plans all day long. I was just looking at a family who is paying .41 cents Monthly for insurance, 5 people. This is not that unusual about 75%-80% of people/families are getting either APTC, CSR or both in subsidy assistance. Originally this was suppose to go away in 2-3 years..thats obviously not going to happen. I assume these are the people that are screaming at town halls and upset about change. Can't say I blame them.
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  #44  
Old 03-13-17, 04:42 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
That is just absolutely false. But either way, your generalizations are far off from reality.
Really? So how big of a price swing can you get on a national plan between carriers? I've had Verizon since they bought Alltel. Their prices change, but it's not like they have a bunch of options for regular cell service. It's a per-line fee now for unlimited. You can't even buy a minute plan as far as I can tell unless you want to go the pre-paid route.

Sure, I could switch carriers, but I travel all over, and Sprint and T-Mobile aren't reliably available. My sister has Cricket and outside Los Angeles she doesn't have network coverage. So, there's pluses and minuses.


Still, you're arguing that a several hundred dollar a month cost is somehow offset by the fact the phone plan you're on is slightly more or less than mine?

You're not calculating the true cost of healthcare if you forget how much your employer pays. Self-employed know the whole cost. My plan is over $900/mo for three people and it's for slightly above average coverage.
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  #45  
Old 03-13-17, 04:44 PM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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Originally Posted by HTFF View Post
Whenever the government intervenes in the free market the price goes down and there is a corresponding rise in quality. Take government housing , for example
Lol
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  #46  
Old 03-13-17, 04:53 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Irwin20 View Post
I work with ACA plans all day long. I was just looking at a family who is paying .41 cents Monthly for insurance, 5 people. This is not that unusual about 75%-80% of people/families are getting either APTC, CSR or both in subsidy assistance. Originally this was suppose to go away in 2-3 years..thats obviously not going to happen. I assume these are the people that are screaming at town halls and upset about change. Can't say I blame them.
This family of 5 getting health insurance for .41/month, do they work and if so how much are they making?

This is a great example of how the ACA was designed to punish the productive and reward the unproductive.
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  #47  
Old 03-13-17, 04:53 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
If you're paying $970/month now then you aren't "poor". Those who are " poor" are getting varying degrees of subsidies.
I know, my mother gets a subsidy and only pays $200/mo. The problem, without Obamacare, she both couldn't afford any insurance and even then wouldn't be covered due to pre-existing conditions.

Quote:
Bottom line for me is that prior to Obamacare my insurance was $157 a month, now it is over a $1000. I didn't get to keep my doctor either. The ACA has been a total disaster for me and my family.
And is that total or employer coverage? Or do you pay the whole plan? A lot of the cost increases are employers refusing to cover as much of the premiums as they did before.

Quote:
I work full time as well as my wife. We make a nice living and are not eligible for subsidies. The ACA was designed to punish those of us who are productive members of society and reward those who are not productive members. Just another way to make citizens reliant on Government.
That's a rather stubborn way of looking at it. If someone without insurance or unable to be insured gets sick, they go to the emergency room where they still get some semblance of care. And that cost gets absorbed into the overall system. Hospitals charge more from those who pay to cover those who don't. Insurance companies raise prices to cover the costs that the hospitals demand, etc.

The problem with Obamacare is that you're seeing it now. Because those sick people who only drained the system at their absolute worst health are now part of the regular system seeing a doctor, getting check ups, screenings, trying to get things taken care of like high blood pressure, circulation issues, etc. Who otherwise would just blip out on a heart attack or when their foot needs cut off their cost becomes that much more noticeable, but their overall cost will be cheaper in the long run. Especially with an aging population.

Quote:
I'd be all for a repeal and get the government out of health care.
It'd be better if your employer got out of your healthcare, too. Since group health is what gave birth to this beast. And the idea group health is great, but country-wide group health is bad is part of the problem. Insurance carriers make a ton of money under the current system because they act as the middle man skimming money both ways.
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  #48  
Old 03-13-17, 05:07 PM
domi domi is offline
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Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
Two problems, the 'cost' attributed to the hospital varies based on who is paying. If it's an affiliated insurance company, it's the cheapest. If it's another out-of-network, there may be some negotiated discount. And then if you're a cash customer, they basically print whatever they want n the bill and then it's up to you to negotiate the price. And they do actually negotiate.

As for costs going up, that's just the act of medical breakthroughs. Every new treatment becomes more costly than the last. There's very rarely some new treatment that is as cheap as an Advil. So, unless you want 'death panels' determine who can and cannot get care based on cost, then everyone gets the highest care possible and then we all have to pay for it. One way or another.
An advil tablet will run you about $30 at a hospital nowadays. Yes, that's for one pill.
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  #49  
Old 03-13-17, 05:53 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is online now
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Originally Posted by domi View Post
An advil tablet will run you about $30 at a hospital nowadays. Yes, that's for one pill.
It's the millions of dollars of building and employees around that tablet that make it $30. But, $30 is cheaper than $30,000 for a month of some newly approved drug. That's the issue.
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  #50  
Old 03-13-17, 08:51 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is online now
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Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
I......And is that total or employer coverage? Or do you pay the whole plan? A lot of the cost increases are employers refusing to cover as much of the premiums as they did before.
.......
We cut back because we provided more coverage than the government allows..... we were going to have to pay the 40% Cadillac tax. That's 40% ON TOP OF the coverage we were providing to employees because we went too far.
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  #51  
Old 03-14-17, 05:05 AM
gobluetom gobluetom is offline
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Originally Posted by HTFF View Post
Whenever the government intervenes in the free market the price goes down and there is a corresponding rise in quality. Take government housing , for example
Great post!!! Big government will save us all!!!!!!!!
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  #52  
Old 03-14-17, 07:39 AM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Irwin20 View Post
I work with ACA plans all day long. I was just looking at a family who is paying .41 cents Monthly for insurance, 5 people. This is not that unusual about 75%-80% of people/families are getting either APTC, CSR or both in subsidy assistance. Originally this was suppose to go away in 2-3 years..thats obviously not going to happen. I assume these are the people that are screaming at town halls and upset about change. Can't say I blame them.
maybe in town halls, the media could go up to those people that are screaming and actually do some reporting.....ask them what they pay on their insurance, and do follow ups......
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  #53  
Old 03-14-17, 07:58 AM
bob22 bob22 is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
maybe in town halls, the media could go up to those people that are screaming and actually do some reporting.....ask them what they pay on their insurance, and do follow ups......
Or ask them what the @!&# they were thinking when they voted for Trump/GOP.

Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk
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  #54  
Old 03-14-17, 08:13 AM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Originally Posted by bob22 View Post
Or ask them what the @!&# they were thinking when they voted for Trump/GOP.

Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk
The people screaming and such at Town Hall meetings aren't the ones that voted for Trump. Good to see the uniformed voter stereotype is alive and well.
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  #55  
Old 03-14-17, 08:18 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
You don't just 'write off' debt. You still lost money on the deal. Those grossly inflated hospital bills reflect the attempt to recoup that money.My father's hospital bill for 2 days between the ER and a day in a hospital room was $19,000.
What was actually paid? I know in seeing alot of claims, there is what is charged, and there is what is paid.
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  #56  
Old 03-14-17, 09:38 AM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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The rise and n cost is mainly due to the rising cost of "breakthroughs"? Such as?

How many of those "breakthroughs" happened at colleges with research facilities that are primarily funded by the Federal tax dollars? What you have here is research primarily funded by tax dollars, and then insurance being paid for by tax dollars... everybody wants the gubment to pay these crazy prices but instead of fighting the insurance companies they blame the gubment for not picking up the check?

Ok fine. Let's get the gubment to pay for insurance, give "credits" whatever... 84% of those on Obamascam are also on some sort of gubment assistance. So why not just modify Medicaid to cover those just short of getting it? After al, we're paying for it anyway through Obamascam. So here's the tax payer... chucking money at research programs. Chucking money at Obamascam. Chucking money at Medicaid. The working tax payer is taking it in all three holes by the Rom Jeremy of taxes. It's bs man. Get rid of credits or whatever to pay for insurance so that family that's paying .41 cents a month can go on Medicaid. Or get rid of Medicaid. One or the other. Can't have both. Greedy bastards. Go die in a ditch clutching that Mountain Dew and choking on McDonalds while you cry about "health" insurance.

PS Paul Ryan can kiss my arse right in the middle and first thing in morning.
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  #57  
Old 03-14-17, 10:13 AM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is online now
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24 million more uninsured people by 2026
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/13/politi...t-health-care/
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  #58  
Old 03-14-17, 10:19 AM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
24 million more uninsured people by 2026
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/13/politi...t-health-care/
Why don't you talk about the 20+ million who don't have insurance currently? The ones that never signed up for Obamascam? And how many of the 24 million are actually just getting their insurance elsewhere besides the exchanges?
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  #59  
Old 03-14-17, 10:24 AM
HTFF HTFF is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
24 million more uninsured people by 2026
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/13/politi...t-health-care/
How many are "covered" by a plan they cannot use. I.e. A plan with a $10000 deductible
Saying Obamacare solved health insurance is like putting the homeless up in a fleabag hotel that charges $900/night. Ya problem solved. But at a cost that is not sustainable
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  #60  
Old 03-14-17, 10:49 AM
BlueJayFan BlueJayFan is online now
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Originally Posted by HTFF View Post
How many are "covered" by a plan they cannot use. I.e. A plan with a $10000 deductible
Saying Obamacare solved health insurance is like putting the homeless up in a fleabag hotel that charges $900/night. Ya problem solved. But at a cost that is not sustainable
Where did I say the ACA solved health care? The ACA needs edited and refined. This new health care proposal is awful in every which way. If this is the best Republicans can come up with, the ACA will never be "repealed and replaced" like Trump promised
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