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  #91  
Old 03-14-18, 09:55 AM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash.c.h.legend View Post
Just so I understand the rule. A kid can actually wrestle at age 21 in OHSAA as long as his birthday happened during wrestling season?


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It depends on if he was bullied or not, and if they moved more than 50 miles, though I could be wrong with part of that.
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  #92  
Old 03-14-18, 10:09 AM
Owen Warner Owen Warner is offline
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Originally Posted by Ryans1906 View Post
Let me be clear this happens in all sports it is not limited to wrestling. When you have a 14 year old freshman phenom in football that is varsity ready should he not be able to compete? Also lost in the rhetoric is that in wrestling you tend to wrestle people who are similar in weight unless your Kyle Snyder wrestling Adam Coon. I understand there are other factors that go into the mindset of someone who is 19 vs someone who is 14. If the 14 year old is talented enough to get to the state tournament as a 14 year old I am sure they know how to handle themselves on the mat and likewise if it is their first year wrestling they will need to put in some blood sweat and tears in order to compete with other 14 year year olds let alone high school seniors.
I don't understand your example of a 14 year old freshman and football.
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  #93  
Old 03-14-18, 10:50 AM
Ryans1906 Ryans1906 is offline
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What I was trying to point out is that there are hold backs in all sports and sometimes you have an athlete(football player) that is varsity ready should he not be able to compete at the varsity level against seniors that may be 18 or 19 years old based on the fact that he is a 14 year old freshman or should he be limited to his peer level age group. Likewise in wrestling although I don't completely agree with the hold back in any sport I understand it is within the confines of the rules, with that being said if little johnny is up to the challenge and ready to compete why stop him. On the flip side there is a young lady that competes in wrestling here in Ohio and I know there were a lot of 106 pounders who hated to see her coming. Should she not be able to compete because she may have given up strength in many of her matches, she made up for it with tenacity, skill and technique. (But I guess girls competing is another topic)
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  #94  
Old 03-14-18, 11:05 AM
Owen Warner Owen Warner is offline
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Originally Posted by Ryans1906 View Post
What I was trying to point out is that there are hold backs in all sports and sometimes you have an athlete(football player) that is varsity ready should he not be able to compete at the varsity level against seniors that may be 18 or 19 years old based on the fact that he is a 14 year old freshman or should he be limited to his peer level age group. Likewise in wrestling although I don't completely agree with the hold back in any sport I understand it is within the confines of the rules, with that being said if little johnny is up to the challenge and ready to compete why stop him. On the flip side there is a young lady that competes in wrestling here in Ohio and I know there were a lot of 106 pounders who hated to see her coming. Should she not be able to compete because she may have given up strength in many of her matches, she made up for it with tenacity, skill and technique. (But I guess girls competing is another topic)
As long as it's in the confines of the rules, I don't see an issue with it. If families are doing it for the chance to earn a scholarship they are sadly mistaken. They're are far more D1 wrestlers with academic scholarships in the NCAA than athletic. Just not enough to go around. My youngest son is a perfect example of a possible hold back. He's a 14 year old freshmen, and earned All Conference, and All SW Ohio in football. My point is, I would consider the State Tournament the highest level for High School wrestlers to compete. And if you're ready to compete at the highest level. Age doesn't equate to competitor.
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  #95  
Old 03-14-18, 11:19 AM
miketyson miketyson is offline
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what if they are being held

back to get better grades and athletics! This is often the case for the 90 percent of these hold backs. Most of these kids are graduating at 19 years old. Its also often exaggerated how are they are because parents are jealous of their kid getting beat.
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  #96  
Old 03-14-18, 12:11 PM
CoachHoversten CoachHoversten is offline
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The real issue is that there is not enough kids to warrant freshman and jv teams for many/most schools. Notice I said "teams", not kids. I get that teams come to a dual and have a handful of JV guys, but very few teams have nearly full JV squads.

If a kid is skilled enough at 14 to hang with and beat 18/19 year olds, more power to them, though I think it is fair to say that is the exception and not the rule.

In most every other HS sport, a 14 year old simply plays on the freshman team, JV if they are pretty good. Most HS have 3 basketball teams, 3 baseball/softball teams (I ump baseball so I know how many freshman teams are out there), 3 football teams, etc.

Some sports like swimming and bowling have only JV and V but the point is, this argument is being made simply because these 14 year olds are wrestling grown men because they have to be in varsity to fill a spot in the lineup.

If more teams had more kids, the freshmen (except for the rare super studs) would be wrestling other freshmen/sophomores while they waited their turn to be juniors/seniors in the starting lineup.
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  #97  
Old 03-14-18, 12:16 PM
wrestlfan wrestlfan is offline
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the reason for the animosity comes out... lol
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  #98  
Old 03-14-18, 12:37 PM
Gremlin80 Gremlin80 is offline
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Does it happen? Yes.

Does it really help? Not as much as people think.

The parents that typically put athletics this far above everything else, also tend to overvalue their son's/daughter's athletic ability. These kids being held back would have been good anyway but they aren't great. Also, the negative side of being held back (socially, emotionally, academically) often ends up overtaking their physical gifts. These kids tend to stop listening to coaches and only listen to their parents. They tend to burn out quick and the year they were held back only speeds that up. I'm sure there have been kids who greatly benefitted from this but from the few I know of personally, it has turned into a net negative.
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  #99  
Old 03-14-18, 12:39 PM
severs0801 severs0801 is offline
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How do career politicians amass net worth of 125 million dollars like the Clinton's?
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  #100  
Old 03-14-18, 01:49 PM
miketyson miketyson is offline
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I think st paris graham

does a good job with it. That's just a small example though. lol
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  #101  
Old 03-14-18, 03:34 PM
kbiz kbiz is offline
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So many dumb posters here. What is the difference whether the 15 year old that whipped your son on the mat has a 9 or a 10 in the "grade" column?

Now I get it - you don't want man who is about to turn 20 beating up on your 14 yr old freshman. I get that. But too many people here are outraged to find out that the "freshman" that beat their boy could have been a sophomore. He's still high school age, so sit down and stop making excuses for your kid. Teach them to take responsibility for the fact that they are in an age group that spans 5 whole years. This ain't Jr. High anymore.

Sheesh, if I knew the sport of wrestling was all about crying like a little baby while keeping little Johnny tethered by mommy's umbilical cord, I would have been telling prospects to stay away from this sport.
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  #102  
Old 03-14-18, 03:34 PM
kbiz kbiz is offline
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So many dumb posters here. What is the difference whether the 15 year old that whipped your son on the mat has a 9 or a 10 in the "grade" column?

Now I get it - you don't want man who is about to turn 20 beating up on your 14 yr old freshman. I get that. But too many people here are outraged to find out that the "freshman" that beat their boy could have been a sophomore. He's still high school age, so sit down and stop making excuses for your kid. Teach them to take responsibility for the fact that they are in an age group that spans 5 whole years. This ain't Jr. High anymore.

Sheesh, if I knew the sport of wrestling was all about crying like a little baby while keeping little Johnny tethered by mommy's umbilical cord, I would have been telling prospects to stay away from this sport.
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  #103  
Old 03-14-18, 03:37 PM
CornerCoach CornerCoach is offline
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....4th grade was the best 3 years of my life ....
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  #104  
Old 03-14-18, 03:37 PM
1_beast 1_beast is offline
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And my post disappeared... Hmm
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  #105  
Old 03-14-18, 04:34 PM
jj2 jj2 is offline
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as long as it's the rules are what they are, people will use them to their advantage. just don't brag about your freshman beating a junior, like it's a big deal, when they are the same age.
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  #106  
Old 03-14-18, 04:49 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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Every kid I wrestled with who wrestled in college, whether scholarship or walk-ons, improved "dramatically" from their Sr. year in H.S. (17-18 yr. olds') to their sophomore year in college (19-20 yr. olds').
While clearly, a lot of this was due to the far greater dedication, coaching & skill it took to be competitive in college, their were still many who greatly benefitted from that simple extra year of "physical & mental" maturity. So do I think that having an "extra" year of H.S. gives a kid a competitive advantage? You'd better believe it...!
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  #107  
Old 03-14-18, 04:54 PM
youngmanmom youngmanmom is offline
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Going the other way...I remember when my son was in youth, there was a young man who was grade accelerated (supposed to be fifth but was in sixth). While holdbacks might be worth mentioning, this kid really impressed me. I wondered then how he would do later when he was wrestling a grade instead of a birth year. My son found him in a district bracket this year, so I guess he's doing pretty well. Good job, ES. I'm glad you have stuck with it.
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  #108  
Old 03-14-18, 09:42 PM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachHoversten View Post
The real issue is that there is not enough kids to warrant freshman and jv teams for many/most schools. Notice I said "teams", not kids. I get that teams come to a dual and have a handful of JV guys, but very few teams have nearly full JV squads.

If a kid is skilled enough at 14 to hang with and beat 18/19 year olds, more power to them, though I think it is fair to say that is the exception and not the rule.

In most every other HS sport, a 14 year old simply plays on the freshman team, JV if they are pretty good. Most HS have 3 basketball teams, 3 baseball/softball teams (I ump baseball so I know how many freshman teams are out there), 3 football teams, etc.

Some sports like swimming and bowling have only JV and V but the point is, this argument is being made simply because these 14 year olds are wrestling grown men because they have to be in varsity to fill a spot in the lineup.

If more teams had more kids, the freshmen (except for the rare super studs) would be wrestling other freshmen/sophomores while they waited their turn to be juniors/seniors in the starting lineup.
Bingo. If you want to put a 14 year old on varsity, live with the consequences.
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  #109  
Old 03-15-18, 11:14 AM
Maple Stang Maple Stang is offline
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Originally Posted by kbiz View Post
So many dumb posters here. What is the difference whether the 15 year old that whipped your son on the mat has a 9 or a 10 in the "grade" column?

Now I get it - you don't want man who is about to turn 20 beating up on your 14 yr old freshman. I get that. But too many people here are outraged to find out that the "freshman" that beat their boy could have been a sophomore. He's still high school age, so sit down and stop making excuses for your kid. Teach them to take responsibility for the fact that they are in an age group that spans 5 whole years. This ain't Jr. High anymore.

Sheesh, if I knew the sport of wrestling was all about crying like a little baby while keeping little Johnny tethered by mommy's umbilical cord, I would have been telling prospects to stay away from this sport.
One question. What bare the hold backs afraid of?
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  #110  
Old 03-15-18, 01:54 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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Kbiz...This isn't all about wrestling. I realize this is a wrestling thread, but the subject that is really being discussed here pertains to all boys' sports.
Personally, I don't even want to have the argument anymore about whether graduating at 19 v. 17 makes a difference in boy's sports....IT DOES, period.
The discussion here that is peeing people off is why it is legal and in fact supported by the OHSAA. Once again, personally, I don't have a problem with it...but don't tell me there is no advantage in doing it.
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  #111  
Old 03-15-18, 02:02 PM
Wrestlingfan21 Wrestlingfan21 is offline
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Who cares
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  #112  
Old 03-15-18, 02:06 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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Apparently 4 pages worth of Yappi posters do...
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  #113  
Old 03-15-18, 02:22 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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Youngmanmom...Mam, you never want to "go the other way" on a wrestling website...
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  #114  
Old 03-15-18, 05:05 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
This is often the case for the 90 percent of these hold backs.
"Often the case for 90%". So it's like Sex Panther? 60% of the time it works every time.

I'll say if that many struggle sufficiently academically , they should spend more time with tutors and less time with wrestling clubs.,,
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  #115  
Old 03-15-18, 05:06 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by Maple Stang View Post
One question. What are the hold backs afraid of?
A level playing field.
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  #116  
Old 03-15-18, 05:10 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by kbiz View Post
Teach them to take responsibility for the fact that they are in an age group that spans 5 whole years. .
Except now it can span 6 years. And some people are cool with that.
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  #117  
Old 03-15-18, 05:28 PM
kbiz kbiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooks View Post
Kbiz...This isn't all about wrestling. I realize this is a wrestling thread, but the subject that is really being discussed here pertains to all boys' sports.
Personally, I don't even want to have the argument anymore about whether graduating at 19 v. 17 makes a difference in boy's sports....IT DOES, period.
The discussion here that is peeing people off is why it is legal and in fact supported by the OHSAA. Once again, personally, I don't have a problem with it...but don't tell me there is no advantage in doing it.
In the sense that your kid gets beat by a kid who should be a freshman in college, yes, it makes a difference. But you are logically wrong to say that your boy that was beat by a freshman holdback in high school isn't fair because he should have the word, sophomore next to his name. That's nonsensical. As if Johnny would have gotten the win against that holdback if he wasn't an 8th grader last year?? It's just excuses, and it teaches the kids the wrong thing.
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  #118  
Old 03-15-18, 05:35 PM
kbiz kbiz is offline
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Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
Except now it can span 6 years. And some people are cool with that.
Does it? Did somebody change the rules? I thought you had to be 19 or younger? I know when my holdback wrestled he wasn't allowed to turn 20 before the summer after his senior year. That's 4 whole years plust the holdback year. If a kid is starting 9th grade a year earlier than he is supposed to, that's on the parents. That would be the only way it can be 6 years. A two time holdback was too young to begin with. All kids turn 14 before they start their freshman year unless they started too early. And you have to be done with your wrestling career prior to turning 20, so that's 5 years.

But if they changed the rules then I'm wrong.
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  #119  
Old 03-15-18, 05:44 PM
kbiz kbiz is offline
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Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
A level playing field.
It's a level playing field for 3 out of the 4 years. There are less holdbacks than you think anyway. And out of those holdbacks, I would say a good portion of them had a maturity reason. There are some kids I can think of right now (one who is a state champion) who was NOT held back, but for size reasons, really probably should have considered it. I know one former top level kid who has quit this year because he never recovered from being so undersized his first two years of high school. He is no longer in the sport. At one point he was an OAC finalist. He was an 89 pound freshman. He was never held back. Now he is done and that's a real shame. Maybe he would have quit anyway. Who knows. I just think people are imagining an injustice happening here with the holdbacks and I just think it's all in your heads. Anyway that's my two cents.
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  #120  
Old 03-15-18, 05:55 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by kbiz View Post
And you have to be done with your wrestling career prior to turning 20, so that's 5 years.
My math may be bad, but I'd say if the field of entrants include 14 YOs, 15 YOs, 16 YOs, 17 YOs, 18 YOs, and 19 YOs then it spans 6 years
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