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  #1  
Old 10-29-17, 08:28 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Regional and State courses 2018

Rumors abound.

I would love to know what is going to happen in 2018 in regards to post season courses. I like may would love to get schedules ready to accomodate possible changes in where post season races will be ran.

Rumor 1- Troy regional is going to move. Long time meet manager Herb Hartman is hanging it up. Nobody stepping up to take over dealing with Troy and the task of running the meet at the levy.

Rumor 2- THe new course in springfield has what the state is looking for in their event. I guess anyting is better than running our state meet at a dragstrip. You would think that Ohio would at least a real CC course for the state meet.
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  #2  
Old 10-30-17, 06:32 AM
Knights1984 Knights1984 is offline
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It would be unfortunate to lose Troy as a cross country regional venue. While the course is not really interesting, it is a great venue for fans to actually watch a huge percentage of a race, which is good for our sport. The above mentioned Springfield course is quite the opposite. Essentially the first two miles are unaccessible and unwatchable as the course goes out around a lake and back. I am sure OHSAA officials will never let anyone on most of the back part of that course, and even if they did it wouldn't matter. As a coach, the comparison would be coaching in UD Arena from the nose bleed section or across the street. While coaches can't run for their athletes, they can certainly add situational awareness to their runners on the course. That is simply not possible at the Springfield course as it was set up this season. Those of you who aren't big fans of Hebron would be longing for those days should the race end up there. Cedarville would be a much better choice, but I am sure the powers that be want some kind of grand stands for people who actually sit at a cross country meet, so some real logistical issues to overcome.
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Old 10-30-17, 07:18 AM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knights1984 View Post
It would be unfortunate to lose Troy as a cross country regional venue. While the course is not really interesting, it is a great venue for fans to actually watch a huge percentage of a race, which is good for our sport. The above mentioned Springfield course is quite the opposite. Essentially the first two miles are unaccessible and unwatchable as the course goes out around a lake and back. I am sure OHSAA officials will never let anyone on most of the back part of that course, and even if they did it wouldn't matter. As a coach, the comparison would be coaching in UD Arena from the nose bleed section or across the street. While coaches can't run for their athletes, they can certainly add situational awareness to their runners on the course. That is simply not possible at the Springfield course as it was set up this season. Those of you who aren't big fans of Hebron would be longing for those days should the race end up there. Cedarville would be a much better choice, but I am sure the powers that be want some kind of grand stands for people who actually sit at a cross country meet, so some real logistical issues to overcome.
Judging by the way things are heading with everything roped off, they don't really want any coaching in the "playoffs" anyway.

My only comment with Troy is if they want to keep it they should place some pads over all the asphalt crossings. It's basically impossible to coach at Troy either with the mass moving around to watch. The coaches are just part of the crowd.
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  #4  
Old 10-30-17, 10:49 AM
Finishtiming Finishtiming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knights1984 View Post
It would be unfortunate to lose Troy as a cross country regional venue. While the course is not really interesting, it is a great venue for fans to actually watch a huge percentage of a race, which is good for our sport. The above mentioned Springfield course is quite the opposite. Essentially the first two miles are unaccessible and unwatchable as the course goes out around a lake and back. I am sure OHSAA officials will never let anyone on most of the back part of that course, and even if they did it wouldn't matter. As a coach, the comparison would be coaching in UD Arena from the nose bleed section or across the street. While coaches can't run for their athletes, they can certainly add situational awareness to their runners on the course. That is simply not possible at the Springfield course as it was set up this season. Those of you who aren't big fans of Hebron would be longing for those days should the race end up there. Cedarville would be a much better choice, but I am sure the powers that be want some kind of grand stands for people who actually sit at a cross country meet, so some real logistical issues to overcome.
We took everyone's suggestions (actually just rumors as no one actually even said anything to me) from the county meet we ran in springfield and have changed the course and it is now more like scioto downs. 1 mile and 2 mile are closer together and are short distance from gates about 1.5 miles is visible from grandstands. We will be running it at the usatf State Champs on Nov 12.
Everyone wants to complain about something without even talking to anyone. I had an open invitation to over 200 coaches this summer and 3 showed up as we were looking for feedback before we went too far on setup. Had a few others show up for a 5k at our fair and gave feedback. The springfield site has the option of running about 4 different 5k courses and multiple other distances. Maybe next time the email comes out to coaches to come out and look and give feedback you can be there this time but if not then you have no complaints as I have asked numerous times for feedback.
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  #5  
Old 10-30-17, 11:44 AM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finishtiming View Post
We took everyone's suggestions (actually just rumors as no one actually even said anything to me) from the county meet we ran in springfield and have changed the course and it is now more like scioto downs. 1 mile and 2 mile are closer together and are short distance from gates about 1.5 miles is visible from grandstands. We will be running it at the usatf State Champs on Nov 12.
Everyone wants to complain about something without even talking to anyone. I had an open invitation to over 200 coaches this summer and 3 showed up as we were looking for feedback before we went too far on setup. Had a few others show up for a 5k at our fair and gave feedback. The springfield site has the option of running about 4 different 5k courses and multiple other distances. Maybe next time the email comes out to coaches to come out and look and give feedback you can be there this time but if not then you have no complaints as I have asked numerous times for feedback.
If I can see my kids 2-3 times during the race I'm happy. If they need my input even that much, I've not prepared them properly.

I like what you're doing in Springfield, keep it up. When you are ready to host a HS 5k, let us know
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  #6  
Old 10-30-17, 12:25 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finishtiming View Post
We took everyone's suggestions (actually just rumors as no one actually even said anything to me) from the county meet we ran in springfield and have changed the course and it is now more like scioto downs. 1 mile and 2 mile are closer together and are short distance from gates about 1.5 miles is visible from grandstands. We will be running it at the usatf State Champs on Nov 12.
Everyone wants to complain about something without even talking to anyone. I had an open invitation to over 200 coaches this summer and 3 showed up as we were looking for feedback before we went too far on setup. Had a few others show up for a 5k at our fair and gave feedback. The springfield site has the option of running about 4 different 5k courses and multiple other distances. Maybe next time the email comes out to coaches to come out and look and give feedback you can be there this time but if not then you have no complaints as I have asked numerous times for feedback.
Just to play Devil's Advocate: why only 200 coaches? Why not more? I never knew anything about it but likely would have shown up to give feedback.

In general, though, I agree: people love to complain without being willing to do anything about it. I'm guilty of it at times.
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  #7  
Old 10-30-17, 01:10 PM
Knights1984 Knights1984 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knights1984 View Post
It would be unfortunate to lose Troy as a cross country regional venue. While the course is not really interesting, it is a great venue for fans to actually watch a huge percentage of a race, which is good for our sport. The above mentioned Springfield course is quite the opposite. Essentially the first two miles are unaccessible and unwatchable as the course goes out around a lake and back. I am sure OHSAA officials will never let anyone on most of the back part of that course, and even if they did it wouldn't matter. As a coach, the comparison would be coaching in UD Arena from the nose bleed section or across the street. While coaches can't run for their athletes, they can certainly add situational awareness to their runners on the course. That is simply not possible at the Springfield course as it was set up this season. Those of you who aren't big fans of Hebron would be longing for those days should the race end up there. Cedarville would be a much better choice, but I am sure the powers that be want some kind of grand stands for people who actually sit at a cross country meet, so some real logistical issues to overcome.
I stand by my assessment, it is what it is. And I told Finishtiming myself that I didn't like it ..... Suggested maybe a jet ski was in order to view the course. Not having access to my runners for a majority of a course is unacceptable. The way OHSAA limits access to even wide open spaces of venues leads me to believe that they will rope off huge parts of that course. I'm never a fan of that.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-17, 06:14 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post

Rumor 2- THe new course in springfield has what the state is looking for in their event. I guess anyting is better than running our state meet at a dragstrip. You would think that Ohio would at least a real CC course for the state meet.
Where is the new course in Springfield?
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  #9  
Old 10-30-17, 07:58 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Fair grounds???
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  #10  
Old 10-31-17, 08:13 AM
Finishtiming Finishtiming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knights1984 View Post
I stand by my assessment, it is what it is. And I told Finishtiming myself that I didn't like it ..... .
Correct you told me (sunday before the tuesday race) And I asked for feedback and suggestions from all the coaches in the coaches meeting and not one of you have said anything. I have been telling coaches we are going to change the course to be a little more spectator friendly if they ask about the course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTT View Post
Just to play Devil's Advocate: why only 200 coaches? Why not more? I never knew anything about it but likely would have shown up to give feedback.

In general, though, I agree: people love to complain without being willing to do anything about it. I'm guilty of it at times.
It was around 200 as that is what was in my online entry system. I cannot use baumspage to get emails as that is not my system and is using someone elses email list as some may consider it spam. Also, I posted something about it here on yappi.

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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
Fair grounds???
Yes Clark County Fairgrounds
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  #11  
Old 10-31-17, 11:25 AM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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Looking at a map of the Clark County Fairgrounds area...I like the look of Reid Park Golf Course myself!
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  #12  
Old 11-01-17, 11:05 AM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Originally Posted by SOTT View Post
Looking at a map of the Clark County Fairgrounds area...I like the look of Reid Park Golf Course myself!
If it isn't completely fenced in forget about it. Cant have people sneaking in.
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  #13  
Old 11-01-17, 11:18 AM
El Indio El Indio is offline
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Is it at Clarence J Brown Reservoir?
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  #14  
Old 11-01-17, 02:01 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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^^^No
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  #15  
Old 11-01-17, 03:10 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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I like the idea of it being held at the clark county fairgrounds a lot more than the drag strip. Thank you National Trail for being host to the state XC meet.

Good riddance.

Last edited by said_aouita; 11-05-17 at 06:19 AM..
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  #16  
Old 11-06-17, 02:59 PM
ChickenSalad ChickenSalad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
I like the idea of it being held at the clark county fairgrounds a lot more than the drag strip. Thank you National Trail for being host to the state XC meet.

Good riddance.
Just chatting with a member of the OHSAA. I asked about a possible move from NTR. I was told that indeed they are looking. However, there is a contract with NTR that will keep the state meet there for the next several years (4 or 5, I believe). I was told that they will explore other venues due mainly to the parking issue, but no venue has been chosen for the future.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-17, 07:55 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Current contract has 4 more years
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  #18  
Old 11-06-17, 08:13 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Current contract has 4 more years
eff me
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  #19  
Old 11-06-17, 09:37 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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It's interesting, because parking seems the least of the problems I have with the venue. I went there this year without any expectations. Just cleared my mind and thought I'd just go and enjoy. But I thought it was very poorly done. Awards going on and then all of a sudden the clock starts and ooops, a race just started. I couldn't pick out teams worth a crud all day in nearly any race. It was sort of boring as far as the announcements went. It didn't seem like a championship atmosphere to me.

There is a dragstrip right down the middle for gods sake. The start is forever away from anything. You cannot watch the sport like you are used to all season and it doesn't feel like cross country. I've tried to come up with ways they could make it better there. but they can't. It would not be tolerated with any other OHSAA sport. It's not fair to do to the kids. I'd pay $20 to get in per person, if it helped get a better facility to have it at.
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Old 11-06-17, 10:19 PM
apeg apeg is offline
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Totally agree, psycho_dad. It's the worst. I can't believe OHSAA treats cross country kids like that either. Saw the race this year and thought it was sad that they paid all those people to sit in lawn chairs inside the snow fencing to keep the fans out and as far away from the runners as possible. And the announcer was pretty terrible- mispronouncing names on a few occasions.
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Old 11-06-17, 10:43 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I'm not going to get on someone for mispronouncing names. That can't be an easy job. But it all seemed uninspired this year. Very Blah. I also realize that the fans have to be kept some distance away from the course, but not as far away as we are kept. All it takes is for some moron to interfere with a racer and we would all lose our minds, but behind fencing is good enough 5 feet away. Not 50'

It needs to be bigger and better than all the other meets, and it's not even close.

I don't understand why they don't at least bring the kids back around the drag strip after that first mile loop then out into the woods. Then after the woods, bring them over close to the fence closer to the fans. There are some things they could do to make it a much better place, but don't seem interested.
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Old 11-07-17, 11:18 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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^^^^More on the camber....

As for the meet, I met with Terry a few years ago and looked at making a double loop course where they went through the woods twice and started closer to the stands.

Not possible. That place is as good as it is. Now the OHSAA needs to just get out of their 4 years left on the contract and get to a real CC venue
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  #23  
Old 11-07-17, 12:06 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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IMO the State meet at National Trail is getting better every year for the athletes. The course conditions made it better this year as far as making it NOT a track meet on grass, but there are elements that could change for the enjoyment of the fans and still be a great course for the athletes. Every kid of ours likes the course as...those who have run it say's it's their favorite course.
For our program it is still the best meet we go to as far as management, announcing, course and the facility working with OHSAA. That doesn't meet it can't be improved. I do remember stating on JJHuddle "be careful what you ask for" to all those who complained about Scioto Downs and said that it needed to be moved from there. Same things holds true for National Trail.
Here are some things that may make it better.
1. - alter the course so that a) fans can be closer at certain parts, b) athletes pass the grandstand more, or c) it is more challenging.
2. - do awards when a race is NOT going on...a) start at 10:00 and give more time between races or b) get them to the podium as the last finisher is crossing the line.
3. - Do NOT have the Preseason meet there as it may make it feel like the State Meet Course is just another invitational meet.
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Old 11-07-17, 12:19 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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I also remember how the State Track Meet seem a little anticlimatic when it left the Horseshoe and went to Welcome Stadium. That was only in my mind. The kids that went to State those years thought is was awsome (except the couple that also competed at the shoe the previouss 2 years)
Now...a decade+ later, Jesse Owens Track is THE PLACE TO BE the fist weekend in June and to our kids, could not be any place better.

Moral of the Story... What the kids believe is what is important and coaches/fans that may emphasize the negatives to them (directly or indirectly) will influence the athletes in the same manner. To Our Kids, National Trail is the BEST and the only place to hold the STATE CHAMPIONSHIP!... and will be until the OHSAA gets another site. and that site will be better event if its an out and back course with no fans allowed and coaches can't get on the course.
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Old 11-07-17, 12:24 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENA2 View Post
IMO the State meet at National Trail is getting better every year for the athletes. The course conditions made it better this year as far as making it NOT a track meet on grass, but there are elements that could change for the enjoyment of the fans and still be a great course for the athletes. Every kid of ours likes the course as...those who have run it say's it's their favorite course.
For our program it is still the best meet we go to as far as management, announcing, course and the facility working with OHSAA. That doesn't meet it can't be improved. I do remember stating on JJHuddle "be careful what you ask for" to all those who complained about Scioto Downs and said that it needed to be moved from there. Same things holds true for National Trail.
Here are some things that may make it better.
1. - alter the course so that a) fans can be closer at certain parts, b) athletes pass the grandstand more, or c) it is more challenging.
2. - do awards when a race is NOT going on...a) start at 10:00 and give more time between races or b) get them to the podium as the last finisher is crossing the line.
3. - Do NOT have the Preseason meet there as it may make it feel like the State Meet Course is just another invitational meet.
Great ideas. OHSAA cares 100% about $$$$$$

1. no $$ involved
2. more time = less $$$
3. Makes money-$$$ so they won't get rid of this meet.

Figure out a way to make $$$ and OHSAA will change it or do it.

If they move the race it will be due to $$$ or mandated because of gambling.

**on a side note. The traffic this year was almost no problem at all when I arrived at 11am
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Old 11-07-17, 02:02 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I don't understand the traffic and parking. The last 2 years, they will only let me enter the east parking lot, but will not let me exit back the way I came. Didn't let some coaches and athletes park in the parking lot assigned to them , but made them park out across the street in the fields. I got in and out ok this year, but I did not stay for the last race. I was in the parking lot over 45 min 3 years ago and talked to a college coach that said he had the same problem last year. All that said, the parking seems fine to me for how many people are there. I can live with that.

At the very least, have a cannon like they have at Malone go off to start the races. BOOM.

I still don't know why the course couldn't come back into the grandstand area instead of behind the track out of site and have the 2 mile mark right around the finish line. Then make the loop in the woods shorter. I'm sure the kids would love coming past the crowd again.

From everyone I've talked to in the know at all, NTR is where it's going to stay for the foreseeable future, so let's make it better.

The start bothers me, but unless there is enough room out in the 1 mile loop area to have that be the start, it has to stay where it's at. But don't just have the start go by without everyone knowing the race has started.

Maybe have those of us that want to move around the course more, pay $5-$10 extra for a special pass that gets us access similar to the coaches.

I went to one football game and one soccer game this year and spent as much $ as I did for the Regional and State CC meets. I'll spend a little more to watch the State CC meet if it makes improvements for the kids. Gas money hurts, but I'll just not go to any football games.

It seems like parking and restrooms and concessions are pretty good, so let's figure out a way to make the course and spectating better and make it larger than life for the kids. Even a better sound system and some music.
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Old 11-07-17, 02:27 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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Another question from a coaching perspective:

Why are they now not allowing coaches in the back field around the 1000 to go mark? That has always been accessible in the past. Similarly, why not allow the coaches to go over the barriers along the drag strip when they are coming back from the loop past the mile mark?

It just doesn't make sense to me why they want to limit access so much.
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  #28  
Old 11-07-17, 02:43 PM
fishelectric fishelectric is offline
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Here is my suggestions to make it better.

1. Fill in the holes in the parking lot. I noticed several people trip over them. Maybe mow the grass a little better too.
2. Put up some portable fencing at the concession stands to keep the lines from blocking people trying to get through. Let the lines wrap around the building instead of out into the walkway.
3. Provide an area for handicap people to view the race. I had a handicap relative just dropped off by the fence after the finish line. They couldn't even see the finish of the race, only the runners after they crossed the finish line.
4. Maybe a little better traffic control leaving the facility. They were directing everyone to leave in one direction then cars were doing u turns in the middle of the highway right in front of the racetrack.
5. Shirt salespeople did not seem to know what they were doing. They also did not inform people that you can purchase items online after the race. I had to inform one team that they would sell items online. If I hadn't, there would have been some very disappointed girls because they ran out of their shirt size.


This was my first time there. Overall, it wasn't bad. I just felt disappointed. After being to other state level athletic events and seeing they great facilities that those are held in, I guess you can say I was expecting something better.
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Old 11-08-17, 10:28 AM
trevo45 trevo45 is offline
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I think the parking was fine, and I arrived around noon. It took about 15min to go the last mile which is not too bad considering the volume of traffic they are bringing in. I've never ran the course and they don't let spectators see much of it, so I can't speak to that.

I saw lots of people past the fence out by the loops but when I tried to go through it I was stopped, even when there was no race going on. It would have been nice if they let spectators have greater access because I'm willing to run and I could only see them 5 times. It wouldn't hurt to let people through when athletes are nowhere in sight.
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  #30  
Old 11-08-17, 12:25 PM
gatornation gatornation is offline
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5 times is a good amount to see them at any meet!
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