Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Boys Track & Field/Cross Country

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-14-17, 07:57 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 08-17-10
Posts: 2,754
psycho_dad is on a distinguished road
Tanking the Conference Championship

There are some coaches / schools that I notice do not take their conference championship seriously and just simply tank it. Purposely put kids in a position of failure. Disrespect the conference and the sport in my opinion. How do the AD's allow this to go on? These are teams that should win their conference but finish much lower. Teams that cruise through District and have had success and failure at the Regional and have done ok at the State meet, but nothing earth shattering. Why would you not run your varsity and lose your conference meet and put JV runners in a position to fail? How do you convince parents and runners that being the best in your conference does not matter? How do you convince the administration that a conference title does not matter? Not one year. but multiple years? Don't you think the first year you do not win the state meet or finish below your ranking would be the end of it? Losers mentality! At what point do we call it a successful strategy? Is it when they win a state title once in 5 tries? 8 tries? 10?

As a parent, I would have some meetings and my kid would be running. I think it's as much unfair to the kids that get thrown out there as it is to the kids that are not .

Last edited by psycho_dad; 10-14-17 at 08:22 PM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-14-17, 08:32 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 06-17-16
Posts: 152
CC Track Fan is on a distinguished road
I agree conference championships should matter. Most schools have banners hanging in their gym that list conference champs for each sport. Know why....because it is important to win those. The AD should step in.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-14-17, 08:38 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-08-06
Posts: 3,025
SOTT is on a distinguished road
I agree. We tell the kids that the conference meet and the state meet are the two that we want to win the most. I can see "cruising" through a district meet, at least more so than a conference meet, as the post-season can be a bit grueling. Having said that, however, I think kids like to race and in most circumstances I don't think it's a good strategy.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-14-17, 08:49 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 08-17-10
Posts: 2,754
psycho_dad is on a distinguished road
When I say cruise, I meant that they qualified through to the Regional rather easily. Although, I've seen one school that does not try to win their conference, blow it at the District a time or two for various reasons.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-14-17, 09:12 PM
gatornation gatornation is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 06-01-11
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 247
gatornation is on a distinguished road
What if the Conference Meet really doesn't mean to much to a school. Look at the AAC. They had to run their conference meet at the Sim Earich meet today. They have 3 tiers in both boys and girls. Not 1 girl in the 3 tiers won their race today but are conference champion, on the boys side 2 of the 3 tier champions won. So lets say you are talking about a certain school from NEO who wears orange and black. They year after year sit their varsity at conference. Last year the girls won their district, 2nd at regional, and 4th at state, not bad. Now I tend to agree with you, I too am old school, sitting kids should be unheard of. But it works for them, i guess. Would they do that well if they ran the week before? We may never know as they will continue to rest kids. College strategy has changed the way we race our kids. It would interesting to see how many schools push close to the 16 meet limit(That is 2 meets a week, every week!).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-14-17, 10:38 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 10-28-15
Location: Coventry, Ohio
Posts: 851
CoventryTrackXCguy is an unknown quantity at this point
Thanks for not tanking our league meet. Our 1 needed an honest assessment of where he stood. Looks like he got beat by only 3 woodridge guys, which is better than the last guy.

Last edited by CoventryTrackXCguy; 10-15-17 at 01:49 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-15-17, 10:02 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 02-15-10
Posts: 2,719
ccrunner609 is on a distinguished road
The AD's in our conference are talking about only running varsity races. JV won't run at all. Their rational is that JV kids don't get a championship in any other sport.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-15-17, 10:58 AM
madman madman is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 09-27-10
Posts: 938
madman is on a distinguished road
... but in other sports there are JV and freshmen competitions every week or even multiple times per week. Most XC teams have a total of 7 invitationals and a conference meet. Reducing a sports season to 7 competitions for young athletes is not a good idea and needs to be fought.

If those ADs are successful in eliminating junior varsity races, then someone in that league needs to step up and create a JV meet held about the same time that isn't sponsored by the league.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-15-17, 11:36 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 02-15-10
Posts: 2,719
ccrunner609 is on a distinguished road
^^^^^i would. It would happen in a heartbeat. It doesn't cost anymore to them so I wouldn't know why they would care.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-15-17, 11:59 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 06-17-16
Posts: 152
CC Track Fan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
^^^^^i would. It would happen in a heartbeat. It doesn't cost anymore to them so I wouldn't know why they would care.
Plus I see a lot of JV parents buying the t-shirts/food so not only doesn't it not cost anything they are making money from having JV races.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-15-17, 01:15 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 02-15-10
Posts: 2,719
ccrunner609 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
Plus I see a lot of JV parents buying the t-shirts/food so not only doesn't it not cost anything they are making money from having JV races.
Like I told them......now you see the uniqueness of our sport.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-15-17, 01:44 PM
PickNorthFan PickNorthFan is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 10-29-16
Posts: 2
PickNorthFan is on a distinguished road
I wonder if Lancaster does this. I have noticed over the years that they have not done well at leagues, been very good at districts the next week--and then struggled at the regional meet. Perhaps building too much for districts?

I thought the pick north boys did a great job (I know, Õīm biased...) of peaking for the league meet this year. I think that will propel them going forward.

Since I really only follow our division of our league, my only other observation is that the Gahanna girls made a statement about their depth on a tough course and in hot conditions. I think they are better than most realize.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-15-17, 06:27 PM
mathking mathking is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 07-25-10
Posts: 1,399
mathking is on a distinguished road
I don't really think I believe they have underperformed at the OCC meet. Lancaster does well at the district meet because their coach generally makes good choices about which district to enter. (This is very far from universally true.) As for struggling at the regional, I would argue that the parity in the central has lead to a lot of years where a bunch of teams went to Pickerington knowing that they had to run at their best in order to qualify for the state meet. That tends to produce up and down regional results.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-16-17, 03:31 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-19-04
Posts: 2,997
said_aouita is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
There are some coaches / schools that I notice do not take their conference championship seriously and just simply tank it. Purposely put kids in a position of failure. Disrespect the conference and the sport in my opinion. How do the AD's allow this to go on? These are teams that should win their conference but finish much lower. Teams that cruise through District and have had success and failure at the Regional and have done ok at the State meet, but nothing earth shattering. Why would you not run your varsity and lose your conference meet and put JV runners in a position to fail? How do you convince parents and runners that being the best in your conference does not matter? How do you convince the administration that a conference title does not matter? Not one year. but multiple years? Don't you think the first year you do not win the state meet or finish below your ranking would be the end of it? Losers mentality! At what point do we call it a successful strategy? Is it when they win a state title once in 5 tries? 8 tries? 10?

As a parent, I would have some meetings and my kid would be running. I think it's as much unfair to the kids that get thrown out there as it is to the kids that are not .
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Although, I've seen one school that does not try to win their conference, blow it at the District a time or two for various reasons.

I've seen schools try to win conference, blow it at the District. Is it fair to say the Regional and State meet are both more important than conference?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-16-17, 03:57 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 08-17-10
Posts: 2,754
psycho_dad is on a distinguished road
How? How does running at the league meet adversely affect performance at the District? Unless you break something, but that happen running easy at practice.

My son put it very simply and as good as I could ever hope to put it. "If a coach doesn't try to win, why are they a coach?"

Just been proven too many times that teams can run their best runners at conference and still move through the District, Regional and do well at State. Proven too many times that you can run your top runners every week and still win the state meet.

Where is all the evidence that resting the top runners produces state champs?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-16-17, 05:40 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 10-28-15
Location: Coventry, Ohio
Posts: 851
CoventryTrackXCguy is an unknown quantity at this point
Districts/Regionals/States should be more important than conference meets. But it is not supported by the statistics that tanking the league meet improves a teams performance in the postseason. The only connection I can see is if a team peaks at the league meet, which is what I'm concerned for my folks as a matter of fact. But if a team is set up to peak at the conference, I dont think tanking or not tanking will really make a difference. Peaking comes from when/how a team decides to taper. By conference day, the deed is done.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-16-17, 06:56 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 02-15-10
Posts: 2,719
ccrunner609 is on a distinguished road
there is a banner on the wall in the gym for league......I think that makes it important.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-16-17, 07:37 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-08-06
Posts: 3,025
SOTT is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoventryTrackXCguy View Post
Districts/Regionals/States should be more important than conference meets.
Define important. We think, and tell the kids, that in terms of winning a meet the conference meet comes second only to the state meet. I'd rather win the conference and only get second or third at the district or regional (as long as that counts for qualifying to the next round)than I would losing the conference to necessarily win either of those two meets. All qualifying teams to the next round start on the starting line of that next meet regardless of the position they finished in. That doesn't mean we don't usually try to win those meets if we think it's within our grasp, but our main goal is qualification.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-17-17, 07:10 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 08-17-10
Posts: 2,754
psycho_dad is on a distinguished road
Coventry;

Your team needs to make progress in the conference before looking ahead to District, Regional and State. And, the way that the District meets are set up, making it through to the Regional may not be all that difficult. I think it would have been a much more successful season for Coventry if they had beaten Field and given Cloverleaf a run for their money. Build for next year and then start thinking of honestly challenging for that second spot in the league and then look to take out Goliath. Your girls need to have 5 bother to show up for the race. Make the progression before thinking about Regional and State. You build a strong culture and tradition and I would hope that winning or placing as high in the conference as you can would be goal #1. Winning the Conference at Woodridge is goal #1. Qualifying through from District to Regional #2, Regional to State #3. Doing as well at the state meet as possible is #4. One step in front of the other.

Coventry needs to start at the MS level. Just make it a fun thing. It should be easy to get kids out. It's just a numbers game. It's not about training, it's about learning and creating interest. The kids at Woodridge just love how fun practice is and meets as well.

It seems to me that when a team does not put an effort in to do well at their conference meet, it's more about the coach than the kids at that point.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-17-17, 07:56 AM
wastedtime wastedtime is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 10-07-16
Posts: 3
wastedtime is on a distinguished road
I'd have to disagree. I'd rather win a state title than a regional title. A regional title than a district title. And a district title over a conference title. I think you should look big picture. If you're working toward building a regional/state caliber team, the conference titles should take care of themselves. While I do agree that teams should be giving an honest effort at their conference meet, I just don't think that comes at the expense of the rest of the post season. I don't know about all the conferences, but I know the OCC's are down to 6-7 teams per (one only had 5 scored teams...). And typically you'll be lucky to see half of them be competitive in each group. So teams come in (with the exception of maybe a couple out of the 10 races) knowing who's going to win. Even if the next best team has a perfect day. So why kill yourself out there? That may be some of the "tanking" you see. I doubt any teams that have a shot to compete and potentially win are just laying down.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-17-17, 10:16 AM
galesxc galesxc is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 08-18-10
Posts: 58
galesxc is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PickNorthFan View Post
I wonder if Lancaster does this. I have noticed over the years that they have not done well at leagues, been very good at districts the next week--and then struggled at the regional meet. Perhaps building too much for districts?
My first thought was to ignore this, but perhaps silence signals agreement... so, for the record,

The Gales gave their best effort in the Ohio Division Championship, as they have in every previous league championship race since I have been the coach.

Congratulations to Pick North on a fine race! You should be especially proud of your 4 and 5 runners; their work in the 2nd and 3rd mile determined the outcome. Congratulations to Coach Starkey on his great work developing these guys and the entire team. Best wishes for the rest of the season.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-17-17, 10:39 AM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-19-04
Posts: 2,997
said_aouita is on a distinguished road
Would you rather be a state qualifying team or a conference champ team? Can't have both...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-17-17, 11:24 AM
93 red ls 93 red ls is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 12-22-13
Posts: 550
93 red ls is on a distinguished road
If winning a Conference Championship isn't that important then just play a club sport.... It's an honor and privilege to get to play high school sports not a right so why not be the best in your Conference?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-17-17, 12:07 PM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 07-27-11
Posts: 1,142
Running Man 101 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
Would you rather be a state qualifying team or a conference champ team? Can't have both...
Conference champ
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-17-17, 12:23 PM
mathking mathking is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 07-25-10
Posts: 1,399
mathking is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by galesxc View Post
My first thought was to ignore this, but perhaps silence signals agreement... so, for the record,

The Gales gave their best effort in the Ohio Division Championship, as they have in every previous league championship race since I have been the coach.

Congratulations to Pick North on a fine race! You should be especially proud of your 4 and 5 runners; their work in the 2nd and 3rd mile determined the outcome. Congratulations to Coach Starkey on his great work developing these guys and the entire team. Best wishes for the rest of the season.
Well said coach. See you on Saturday.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-17-17, 01:04 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 04-01-12
Posts: 831
EuclidandViren is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
Would you rather be a state qualifying team or a conference champ team? Can't have both...
Depends.

(1) If at conference you finish a close 2nd. And then, if at regional you finish in the last qualifying spot and the conference champ finishes right behind you.

I would rather qualify for state. End the year on a better note. If it was reverse I would have a sour taste in my mouth for an entire year.

I would go with qualifying for state.

**The real question is would you rather win a state championship and not qualify for Nike Nationals? Or would you rather lose a state title and qualify for Nike Nationals?

Same situation for me. I would go with the latter. I was always told by my high school coach "You are only as good as your last race."
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-17-17, 02:00 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: 10-06-16
Posts: 38
ENA2 is on a distinguished road
Not sure anyone can argue what is best for another program. I would hope that most do what is right for thier program. In my case it depends on the year. Never have "tanked" the league championship meet, but the importance depends on the team goals for the year, and that depends on the strength of the league and the team... and on the health of the team.... and maybe even the mentality of the team/coach.

Example: This year we had no chance to win the league.... top 7 running PR's and top team running poor would have gotten us 3rd. Plus it was homecoming weekend and for HS girls, their priorities are elsewhere. We got 4th by Not putting emphasis on the race. "Just Have a good time" and cover the course.
We got 4th and had 3 of 19 girls run their best race of the year (not best times). 15 of the 19 road home with their parents and did not even stay for the awards/results. That was OK with me as this week is more important because we can advance to the Regional for the 8th year in a row. So THIS YEAR the District is more important.
NEXT YEAR that could all change

In short... Can't the philosophy change as the team/talent/compitition change?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-17-17, 03:14 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 10-28-15
Location: Coventry, Ohio
Posts: 851
CoventryTrackXCguy is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
Would you rather be a state qualifying team or a conference champ team? Can't have both...
I don't see why the two need to be mutually exclusive.

Now, is it considered tanking the conference championship if one doesn't train to peak at the conference meet, but still puts their best effort into that race?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-17-17, 04:43 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 02-15-10
Posts: 2,719
ccrunner609 is on a distinguished road
You shouldnt have to tank the conference if you race correctly during the season. We have 3 2 mile races and take the weekend before off. THey dont need to cruise or not race for a league title.

Do the right stuff and you can have both
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-17-17, 04:54 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-08-06
Posts: 3,025
SOTT is on a distinguished road
Our varsity schedule looks like this:

Pre-season: Race (main emphasis on race tactics)
Week 1: Race (main emphasis on race tactics and pack running)
Week 2: Race
Week 3: Off
Week 4: Race
Week 5: Race
Week 6: Off
Week 7: Race
Week 8: Race (Conference)
Week 9: Race (District)
Week 10: Race (Regional)
Week 11: Race (State)
Week 12: Race (NXR Midwest)

We don't train to "peak" for the conference meet, so if that is considered tanking I guess we're tanking, but we are definitely in it to win it we step to the line.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cooperstown Championship Game shawnp Baseball 0 09-09-17 11:14 AM
OHSAA Foundation to Host Nationís Largest Student Leadership Conference Oct. 3 Yappi Football 3 08-31-17 10:11 AM
Your top 5 OHSAA Playoff/State Championship games fleadog101 Football 39 08-28-17 01:33 AM
ALBB - 2017 Ohio State Championship seclmw Baseball 7 07-28-17 09:40 PM
Chagrin Valley Conference Accepting Applications for Conference Commissioner coachpeters General Board 0 05-04-17 04:38 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz