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  #61  
Old 02-13-18, 03:57 PM
LowCrotch LowCrotch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerdrill View Post
Club kids don't want to come to the middle school practice room.
Mine does.
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  #62  
Old 02-13-18, 04:08 PM
LowCrotch LowCrotch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerdrill View Post
Who is "keeping them away"? I'm sure no one has told a club kid to not come to the middle school practice. Then when they are done there, they can go to their club practice. There are no rules against that.
Maybe I misunderstood the rule. If so, I apologize. I thought once they competed in a non-scholastic event, they could no longer compete or practice with their school team. I know they canít compete, but Iím not sure about the practice part.
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  #63  
Old 02-13-18, 04:13 PM
gitsum gitsum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerdrill View Post
Who is "keeping them away"? I'm sure no one has told a club kid to not come to the middle school practice. Then when they are done there, they can go to their club practice. There are no rules against that.
If they can put the extra time in to do both practices which most would then why can't they compete for both ? I think most clubs are talking about out of state matches and I agree you shouldn't be competing for an Ohio club competing in Ohio when your Jr high team is also competing. But for a kid to have to choose their Jr high team or competing for a club or state team at a out of state dual 1 or 2 times doesn't help any side. Let the Jr high coach decide . There can be middle ground found to help Ohio wrestling. I don't believe the OHHSA overly cares. It's more that some coaches and some parents that want to make sure the top kids don't beat their kids and that doesn't help anyone! They are going to see them in high school. Losing is the first step to winning. No kid is going to quit cause he lost 1 match to a high caliber kid. It should motivate them. Again - there can be middle ground found for everyone.
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  #64  
Old 02-13-18, 04:34 PM
severs0801 severs0801 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tartan78 View Post
In rural areas there are generally no clubs and to get to a club would b a pretty good drive.


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Drove my son to BTW club 2.5 hours 2 or 3 days week for 2 years. Then to OMP for 2 year 1.5 hour drive. It's all about the goals you and your child have. It's paid of for my son, he has got better every year.
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  #65  
Old 02-13-18, 04:37 PM
severs0801 severs0801 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerdrill View Post
Club kids don't want to come to the middle school practice room.
My son does evetyday to help out his friend's. Then goes to a club practice after.
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  #66  
Old 02-13-18, 04:50 PM
fullnelson fullnelson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janetburnett View Post
WOW. So the majority of middle school club parents are ignorant, irresponsible, win-at-all-costs folks that have no respect for rules. I'm not sure I've read a more biased post. How exactly is it that you know so much about the club parents and the behavior and academics of their children? Or is it just the assumption that, even though a kid has been wrestling from a young age, or has a natural talent, or doesn't have a very good jr. high coach, that he MUST be a bad kid because he wrestles club? Shame on these kids for trying to excel and prepare for high school. The fact of the matter is most of these kids are MORE disciplined, because they've always had to be. They time manage at a younger age because they're doing more than the average kid by going to extra practices. They're doing homework in the car on the way to practice. They're taking it with them on road trips. They're missing school to compete nationally, which most schools have to approve - they won't with kids that aren't getting the grades. But bottom line, most kids that are competing on a national level at the jr. high ages are probably looking to take their wrestling into college. And most will know at that point that wrestling alone isn't going to get them into college. Grades become paramount at the jr high level. So to say that most of us don't know what our kids are doing academically or behaviorally is just insane. We don't need eligibility rules to tell us how our kids are doing - we're still parenting.

All that being said, there are definitely benefits to wrestling in middle school. I wish my boys would have been able to. I think they would have had fun. I also think that more of their friends would have participated and perhaps gone on to wrestle in high school. But they needed to complete at a higher level, and our state does not allow them to do both. That is the fact. I think our rules are hurting the sport in the state of Ohio, and definitely drawing a heavy line between average and elite. By and large, an average, 1st or 2nd year middle school wrestler isn't going to see an elite wrestler until OAC. And when they do, they're going to be terribly discouraged. If they worked with better wrestlers on a daily basis, and competed against them over the course of the season, I believe they would get better, and there would be a better chance of retaining them in high school. We need to close the gap between the elite and the average, or we will continue lose kids. I'd like to see the average kids get better. But we can shut the clubs down and take away that advantage. And watch Ohio wrestling become average.

Wow, sorry you took it so personally. Didn't mean that at all. Just trying to point out the differences between club and MS.
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  #67  
Old 02-13-18, 05:35 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowCrotch View Post
Maybe I misunderstood the rule. If so, I apologize. I thought once they competed in a non-scholastic event, they could no longer compete or practice with their school team. I know they canít compete, but Iím not sure about the practice part.
Correct, they can only compete for 1 team, not both.
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  #68  
Old 02-13-18, 06:25 PM
Tartan78 Tartan78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severs0801 View Post
Drove my son to BTW club 2.5 hours 2 or 3 days week for 2 years. Then to OMP for 2 year 1.5 hour drive. It's all about the goals you and your child have. It's paid of for my son, he has got better every year.

Iím glad you were able to do it, however a lot of parents do not have that ability. A lot of parents have to work various shifts or mandatory OT etc. My employment plus the cost of gas would not have allowed that option for my children. I guarantee you that their goals are not much different than your childís.


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  #69  
Old 02-13-18, 08:27 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severs0801 View Post
It's all about the goals you and your child have.
I'm trying to figure out how and why my goals matter when it comes to my child wrestling.
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  #70  
Old 02-13-18, 09:21 PM
Donkability Donkability is offline
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northern part of the state does this every year, nothing left of ms these last two weeks, the better kids have to move on to tulsa and districts and national preps.
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  #71  
Old 02-13-18, 09:39 PM
4TimeFunk 4TimeFunk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
I'm trying to figure out how and why my goals matter when it comes to my child wrestling.
I think a simple answer would be if he doesnít have any personal goals set then his son probably doesnít have a ride to practice, or get new shoes when his wear out, or even support at tournaments during some lonely times. Life goals, holding down a job, keeping him happy when itís easy to just yell. Doesnít have to be him wanting his son to win like your implying. Iím sure he will give you a much better explanation since he must be doing something correctly.
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  #72  
Old 02-14-18, 07:14 AM
craceman craceman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janetburnett View Post
WOW. So the majority of middle school club parents are ignorant, irresponsible, win-at-all-costs folks that have no respect for rules. I'm not sure I've read a more biased post. How exactly is it that you know so much about the club parents and the behavior and academics of their children? Or is it just the assumption that, even though a kid has been wrestling from a young age, or has a natural talent, or doesn't have a very good jr. high coach, that he MUST be a bad kid because he wrestles club? Shame on these kids for trying to excel and prepare for high school. The fact of the matter is most of these kids are MORE disciplined, because they've always had to be. They time manage at a younger age because they're doing more than the average kid by going to extra practices. They're doing homework in the car on the way to practice. They're taking it with them on road trips. They're missing school to compete nationally, which most schools have to approve - they won't with kids that aren't getting the grades. But bottom line, most kids that are competing on a national level at the jr. high ages are probably looking to take their wrestling into college. And most will know at that point that wrestling alone isn't going to get them into college. Grades become paramount at the jr high level. So to say that most of us don't know what our kids are doing academically or behaviorally is just insane. We don't need eligibility rules to tell us how our kids are doing - we're still parenting.

All that being said, there are definitely benefits to wrestling in middle school. I wish my boys would have been able to. I think they would have had fun. I also think that more of their friends would have participated and perhaps gone on to wrestle in high school. But they needed to complete at a higher level, and our state does not allow them to do both. That is the fact. I think our rules are hurting the sport in the state of Ohio, and definitely drawing a heavy line between average and elite. By and large, an average, 1st or 2nd year middle school wrestler isn't going to see an elite wrestler until OAC. And when they do, they're going to be terribly discouraged. If they worked with better wrestlers on a daily basis, and competed against them over the course of the season, I believe they would get better, and there would be a better chance of retaining them in high school. We need to close the gap between the elite and the average, or we will continue lose kids. I'd like to see the average kids get better. But we can shut the clubs down and take away that advantage. And watch Ohio wrestling become average.
(Mic Drop)
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  #73  
Old 02-14-18, 07:33 AM
severs0801 severs0801 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
I'm trying to figure out how and why my goals matter when it comes to my child wrestling.
We both sit down and write them out at the start of the season. Areas he needs to do better, areas I need to do better as a coach, father and support system. So they matter, it's about learning and growing thru the sport. Using the sport to better himself and myself.
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  #74  
Old 02-14-18, 08:24 AM
Tartan78 Tartan78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severs0801 View Post
We both sit down and write them out at the start of the season. Areas he needs to do better, areas I need to do better as a coach, father and support system. So they matter, it's about learning and growing thru the sport. Using the sport to better himself and myself.


We do the same in my household, however A club was not an option for us due to distance, the hours I have to work, etc. So the school team was our only option in part due to residing 1.5 hours away from the nearest club. Your reply to my original post was very assuming in its tone. The school program did very well by my kids btw.


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  #75  
Old 02-14-18, 10:05 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Comparing across other sports has some insight I THINK

1. No MS Programs

Soccer, Baseball , softball, swimming - very strong club models from young ages and there are very few MS programs in existence in Ohio

Golf/ tennis - very close to the above sports, but individual tournament and league circuit vital to development - resembling a club......

all done at parents expense and outside school for the most part
--------------
2. Strong MS programs

Football- strength built around community although some club may exist at young ages but generally follow community lines

Track, CC - MS essential to development
--------------

3. Mixtures of development CLUB/ MS

Basketball - MS and HS teams I believe take priority over club and travel & AAU teams and generally work together after the season - Most play for their MS teams - NOT A WRESTLING TYPE ISSUE

Volleyball, Wrestling, I do believe Volleyball generally relaxes during the MS volleyball season but nor sure- Wrestling seems to have the worst balance of the two- there are lots of events for club and lots of events for MS thus creating a real problem Most of the CLUB wrestling events are major fundraisers for someone.

What do we take in from all this ? Wrestling is on a bit of an island, but in the closest comparison to Volleyball and maybe basketball.. Those sports don't seem to complain about the same exact rules as much as the club wrestling people. I could be wrong.. but having talked to parents of these athletes it generally is never an issue

Generally these sports run with their club before and after the season and Middle school it through a couple months.

In the end Why would the OHSAA have a rule against doing both? Because they represent the school systems that are trying to create a well rounded individual, you have to be eligible- get good grades ( no such rule on clubs that are there for 1 reason to make you a better wrestler). There are limits on matches - Why ? So you don't get consumed on athletics and to enforce a well rounded education. You learn to play by the rules, the teachers and coaches and their rules.

Understand that a school system tries to balance music programs, athletics, school functions, drama clubs etc...... and often has to make rules on which prioritize - this event or that event if they happen at the same time..There are rules of fair play

Choose a club OR choose MS but respect the rule and what the schools and OHSAA are trying to preserve
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  #76  
Old 02-14-18, 10:31 AM
Huge Huge is offline
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I would think that lack of quality (or any) coaching candidates is the biggest problem affecting junior high wrestling programs. Do they need t be teachers at the junior high? In the school system? Can a non- teacher be head coach or can you have a teacher/employee as the manager/figure head and have the outside assistant do the instruction and mat side coaching?
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  #77  
Old 02-14-18, 11:48 AM
severs0801 severs0801 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tartan78 View Post
We do the same in my household, however A club was not an option for us due to distance, the hours I have to work, etc. So the school team was our only option in part due to residing 1.5 hours away from the nearest club. Your reply to my original post was very assuming in its tone. The school program did very well by my kids btw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I know the cost and time involved, wasn't assuming anything. I have been blessed to provide both my kids with a path to extra in their sports and life. You have to pick your battles, I missed all but super32 this year because of work but if I didn't work no gas or cash to pay practices.
I'll enjoy the ride because one day it's gonna be over
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  #78  
Old 02-14-18, 12:12 PM
bulldowg_Wrestling19 bulldowg_Wrestling19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by severs0801 View Post
And here is the reason why PA wrestling is deeper and better. And why MS wrestling in Ohio is a joke.
What does PA do that Ohio doesn't?
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  #79  
Old 02-14-18, 01:42 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by bulldowg_Wrestling19 View Post
What does PA do that Ohio doesn't?
PA doesn't have this "once you go club you can't come back to MS rule"
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  #80  
Old 02-16-18, 06:53 AM
Jrob77 Jrob77 is offline
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I can't believe I just spent my time reading all three pages of this. I really feel like wrestling has become very selfish, and not in a good way. There was a time that you wrestled to learn discipline, work ethic, proudly represent YOUR school, and to build relationships. Now the sport is feeling like a free for all for those who can manipulate the rules the best. I love this sport and I appreciate everything it has taught me over the years. Sadly I just don't believe those things that I personally learned are being handed down through the generations. Personally win at all costs no matter what, seems to be the trend.
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  #81  
Old 02-16-18, 07:25 AM
roughedge roughedge is offline
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Originally Posted by Jrob77 View Post
I can't believe I just spent my time reading all three pages of this. I really feel like wrestling has become very selfish, and not in a good way. There was a time that you wrestled to learn discipline, work ethic, proudly represent YOUR school, and to build relationships. Now the sport is feeling like a free for all for those who can manipulate the rules the best. I love this sport and I appreciate everything it has taught me over the years. Sadly I just don't believe those things that I personally learned are being handed down through the generations. Personally win at all costs no matter what, seems to be the trend.
So do you mean win at all cost by taking your son off his MS team so he can get better coaching, better drill partners, better competition so he can be prepared for high school and college.

I don't want to start bashing MS teams but there are not alot of public schools like Wadsworth.
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  #82  
Old 02-16-18, 08:49 AM
4TimeFunk 4TimeFunk is offline
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[QUOTE=Jrob77;6988577]I can't believe I just spent my time reading all three pages of this. I really feel like wrestling has become very selfish, and not in a good way. There was a time that you wrestled to learn discipline, work ethic, proudly represent YOUR school, and to build relationships. Now the sport is feeling like a free for all for those who can manipulate the rules the best. I love this sport and I appreciate everything it has taught me over the years. Sadly I just don't believe those things that I personally learned are being handed down through the generations. Personally win at all costs no matter what, seems to be the trend.[/QUOTE

Learning discipline and work ethic are still going on ten fold. Get to some tournaments man thereís still plenty of awesome guys involved. BTW listen to any brands/gable videos(among many others) guess what they think a big key to winning at the highest level is? Selfishness go figure
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  #83  
Old 02-16-18, 11:00 AM
wrestlfan wrestlfan is offline
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I am a head hs coach. I drive my kid and hour and a half one way to practice with a club several times a week. I go where other like minded kids AND PARENTS are. I try to get kids AND parents to be as dedicated as we are but they havent bought in. Im not going to hold my son back. With no one near my sons size, I am forced to go places where kids AND parents go to be great
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