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  #1  
Old 02-12-18, 01:28 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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What happen to the GCL conferenece?

The schools Carroll, Cham. Julienne, HamiltonBadin, Bishop Fenwick, McNicholas, Kettering Alter, Roger Bacon, and Purcell Marian seceded from the big 4( St. Xavier, LaSalle, Elder, Moeller) or was it the other way around? I didn't understand the move or the message being given to the kids and if those schools could still be in the GCL ? Why don't they start there own conference or the big 4 leave or disband the GCL?
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  #2  
Old 02-12-18, 06:33 AM
SCORE2WIN SCORE2WIN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmalice View Post
The schools Carroll, Cham. Julienne, HamiltonBadin, Bishop Fenwick, McNicholas, Kettering Alter, Roger Bacon, and Purcell Marian seceded from the big 4( St. Xavier, LaSalle, Elder, Moeller) or was it the other way around? I didn't understand the move or the message being given to the kids and if those schools could still be in the GCL ? Why don't they start there own conference or the big 4 leave or disband the GCL?

From what I heard the other schools all voted and kicked the 4 out and thatís when the gcl south started. Now this was 2nd hand info but from a reliable source.
As far as the message it makes perfect sense. If you canít beat them, no need to train harder and get better when you can just eliminate and lower the quality of competition.


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  #3  
Old 02-12-18, 07:22 AM
momx3 momx3 is offline
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The GCl Co-Ed and GCL - South (Moeller, Elder, St X, LaSalle) are two different divisions of the GCL and have separate conference tournaments in most sports. I think wrestling is one of the few sports in recent years where they had a combined conference tournament.

The split wasn't about running from better competition. It was a decision made by the majority of the ADs (not unanimous across all 8 GCL co-ed schools from what I understand) that had been in the works for a long time.

A couple years ago, the conference tournament was set up as a pool tournament instead of a bracketed tournament so that wrestlers would get more matches. In a bracketed tourney with less than 8 kids in some weights, you had kids getting only 2 matches and some of the coaches felt that if they were spending 2 points on a tournament, they wanted more matches. A pool tournament would have gotten most kids 3 - 4 matches. Prior to the tournament, one of the GCL- South coaches pulled out the by-laws and demanded that the tournament be a bracketed tournament (per the by-laws.) That was the "final straw" for the GCL Co-Ed and the next year, the ADs voted for a separate tournament.

Coaches and ADs have the right to do what they think is in the best interest of their athletes. If the by-laws call for a bracketed tournament, I can understand why a coach might have a problem with this, especially if his kids were banged up and he only wanted them to get a couple of matches that day. But I wouldn't say that this was about running from better competition when the nail in the coffin was an argument over the GCL Co-Ed teams (and some of the GCL South teams) wanting to get their wrestlers more matches.

Last edited by momx3; 02-12-18 at 10:40 AM.
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  #4  
Old 02-12-18, 07:25 AM
sportjunkie sportjunkie is offline
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The GCL south is made up of the big 4 all boys schools in Cincinnati. The GCL coed division is made up of the 8 smaller coed schools between Dayton and Cincinnati. Been that way for a while now. For wrestling they used to combine for a larger tourney at end of the year. From what I've heard... before last year the GCL coed coaches voted 7-1 to have their own tourney and not include the big 4. Carroll was the lone vote to remain combined. For what its worth, I don't believe they are combined for any other sport.
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  #5  
Old 02-12-18, 08:31 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momx3 View Post
The GCl Co-Ed and GCL - South (Moeller, Elder, St X, LaSalle) are two different divisions of the GCL and have separate conference tournaments in most sports. I think wrestling is one of the few sports in recent years where they had a combined conference tournament.

The split wasn't about running from better competition. It was a decision made by the majority of the ADs (not unanimous across all 8 GCL co-ed schools from what I understand) that had been in the works for a long time.

A couple years ago, the conference tournament was set up as a pool tournament instead of a bracketed tournament so that wrestlers would get more matches. In a bracketed tourney with less than 8 kids in some weights, you had kids getting only 2 matches and some of the coaches felt that if they were spending 2 points on a tournament, they wanted more matches. A pool tournament would have gotten most kids 3 - 4 matches. At the last minute, one of the GCL- South coaches pulled out the by-laws and demanded that the tournament be a bracketed tournament (per the by-laws.) That was the "final straw" for the GCL Co-Ed and the next year, the ADs voted for a separate tournament.

Coaches and ADs have the right to do what think is in the best interest of their athletes. If the by-laws call for a bracketed tournament, I can understand why a coach might have a problem with this, especially if his kids were banged up and he only wanted them to get a couple of matches that day. But don't say that this was about running from better competition when the nail in the coffin was an argument over the GCL Co-Ed teams (and some of the GCL South teams) wanting to get their wrestlers more matches.
That answers alot of questions, thank you. A pool style would been better, since the big 4 would clean up 95% of the podium hardware and more bang for your bucks( 2pts.).
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Old 02-12-18, 09:08 AM
Coach Maffey Coach Maffey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportjunkie View Post
The GCL south is made up of the big 4 all boys schools in Cincinnati. The GCL coed division is made up of the 8 smaller coed schools between Dayton and Cincinnati. Been that way for a while now. For wrestling they used to combine for a larger tourney at end of the year. From what I've heard... before last year the GCL coed coaches voted 7-1 to have their own tourney and not include the big 4. Carroll was the lone vote to remain combined. For what its worth, I don't believe they are combined for any other sport.
I know Badin also voted to stay with the format of including the GCL South.

Not that the 7-1 or 6-2 makes much of a difference...

I know during my 5 years there we looked forward to match-ups with the South, especially in preparation for postseason.

Also small school (North & Central) individual champs made it fun for team races between Moe and Elder.



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  #7  
Old 02-12-18, 10:44 AM
momx3 momx3 is offline
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Personally, I preferred the combined tournament as well and I know that many of the GCL CO-Ed wrestlers looked forward to it.

I just think it's important for people to understand that this had been a topic of debate among the ADs for some time, and there was a lot more to it than simply running from better competition.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-18, 10:47 AM
Suplexer130 Suplexer130 is offline
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Interestingly enough something similar just happened with the GWOC.
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  #9  
Old 02-12-18, 11:20 AM
Unstacked Unstacked is offline
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Originally Posted by Suplexer130 View Post
Interestingly enough something similar just happened with the GWOC.
So now everyone can get a trophy!!!
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  #10  
Old 02-12-18, 11:37 AM
white_chocolate white_chocolate is offline
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When I coached at Roger Bacon, we LOVED the combined GCL tournament. Mentally the next week for our kids going to D2 Sectionals, they felt confident after banging with good GCL South kids, especially those who placed and beat some of the good kids from the conference. But we are also talking a time when Purcell Marian was one of the best D2 teams in SW Ohio for a long run. For a few years our Roger Bacon squads were one of the best small school programs in the Cincinnati area, and CJ had a run for a bit with multiple state placers. You would consistently have multiple small school guys in the GCL finals, and a few GCL champs scattered here and there from the North/Central schools.

But for about the last decade, the small GCL schools have had a severe drop-off in wrestling and numbers overall. I think many of them felt like it was a waste with half-filled lineups, and not many kids being competitive with the big schools. I don't like it personally, I loved having our kids make a run at the big boys in the conference. But it was probably also becoming a waste for the GCL South programs, having only 2 to 3 decent kids in weight classes at most. If I were still at RB, I would have fought tooth and nail to keep the full conference together for wrestling.
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  #11  
Old 02-12-18, 11:37 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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The quad dual thing can't be that satisfying plus another meeting of seeing the same opponent. I didn't know if egos or being stubborn created the situation, as different sides of the story was told. Back in the days, programs like Roger Bacon and Purcell Marian were known/ competitive; today, I only know of Purcell Marian because of their awesome freshmen and jv tournaments and Roger Bacon? They still have a program?
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  #12  
Old 02-12-18, 11:48 AM
white_chocolate white_chocolate is offline
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Roger Bacon has a few kids total from what I understand, and struggle to get anyone do Districts anymore. It is tough to see the absolute non-factor they have become.
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  #13  
Old 02-12-18, 11:50 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suplexer130 View Post
Interestingly enough something similar just happened with the GWOC.
Will the GMC vote Mason off the Island because they excel in almost every sport? Like Winton Woods still can't find a conference? Is the saying when the going get's tuff, the tuff is sent packing?
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  #14  
Old 02-12-18, 11:55 AM
white_chocolate white_chocolate is offline
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From what I understand when I used to coach baseball in the FAVC, I think the issue with Winton Woods was that they were very dominant in a couple sports, but putrid in most other sports. As a whole, athletic departments wanted programs to compete with that were more competitive across the board, not in just a couple sports. That is how it was explained to me. I know in baseball to use 2 points on the schedule (home and away) that were a guaranteed run rule every time was brutal. Now that is just one sport, and many programs are bad in certain sports, but I know that was the complaint I constantly heard from various sports.
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Old 02-12-18, 03:18 PM
ShyGuy ShyGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmalice View Post
The quad dual thing can't be that satisfying plus another meeting of seeing the same opponent.
Not really as dissatisfying as what it was before the Dual format, but the logic behind why the GCL South doesnít really mind this divorce (if you will) is as follows:

Assuming you know the requirements of how OHSAA competition points must be spent, the Dual Format only cost the GCL South teams 1 point. You only had to schedule 3 more duals to maximize your 20 and it freed up a 2 point event that we could schedule away we wanted.

Being involved during this transition, the last 3 years of a combined tournament cost a team 6 points over that time which equated to 6 total matches for my son. Iím not saying that it was a waste to compete against the Co-ed schools, but 6 points for 6 matches certainly is.
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Old 02-12-18, 03:57 PM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
Not really as dissatisfying as what it was before the Dual format, but the logic behind why the GCL South doesnít really mind this divorce (if you will) is as follows:

Assuming you know the requirements of how OHSAA competition points must be spent, the Dual Format only cost the GCL South teams 1 point. You only had to schedule 3 more duals to maximize your 20 and it freed up a 2 point event that we could schedule away we wanted.

Being involved during this transition, the last 3 years of a combined tournament cost a team 6 points over that time which equated to 6 total matches for my son. Iím not saying that it was a waste to compete against the Co-ed schools, but 6 points for 6 matches certainly is.
Good points. No pun intended.
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  #17  
Old 02-12-18, 04:27 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by SCORE2WIN View Post
If you canít beat them, no need to train harder and get better when you can just eliminate and lower the quality of competition.
Riiiiight. The GCL big schools are better because of superior training and effort....
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  #18  
Old 02-12-18, 07:54 PM
TheFan1 TheFan1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Unstacked View Post
So now everyone can get a trophy!!!
GWOC going. 20 teams to 10, with the 10 smaller schools succeeding to make another conference (with exception of one.... Which I'm guessing has a 1000 post headache thread on the football forum). Far from a participation troghy conference in either.... But that's for a different thread
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