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  #91  
Old 02-11-18, 10:28 PM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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Let's have no weight class next year. Spencer Lee vs. Mark Hall. Who likes seeing a guy give up 50 to 60 pounds( win or lose)? Safety not an issue so let's eliminate weight minimum in all wrestling. I can see in boxing Mike Tyson was able to give up weight and height advantages because of his talent but it won't last forever. Do college wrestling need a weight class between 197 and 285 or weight minimum?
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  #92  
Old 02-11-18, 10:30 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceunder View Post
I do not care if it is an OSU wrestler or anyone from middle school to the Olympics you should be called for staling if you do not take a shot over the last 2 periods.
There is no reference to "shots" in the Referee guide. There are essentially only two standards to "stalling": A.) Being aggressive/trying to improve B.) Keeping the action in the middle of the mat.
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  #93  
Old 02-11-18, 10:36 PM
Dad4Sports Dad4Sports is offline
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Who was the ESPN play-by-play announcer?
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  #94  
Old 02-12-18, 06:00 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
There is no reference to "shots" in the Referee guide. There are essentially only two standards to "stalling": A.) Being aggressive/trying to improve B.) Keeping the action in the middle of the mat.
From neutral, how is anything other than attempting to take down the opponent attempting to improve?
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  #95  
Old 02-12-18, 06:35 AM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
From neutral, how is anything other than attempting to take down the opponent attempting to improve?
Coon did not win because he was stalling. I donít see how anybody could even assert that. Coon won because he is 6í5Ē and weighs 280+lbs and he is good at wrestling. Snyder is 5í11 and weighs 225lbs and is great at wrestling. This is not an excuse but is a fact. It is a physical attribute and advantage that Coon used to win the match. Size, speed, agility, balance, quickness, power...wrestling is a physical sport where physical things matter. Iím pretty sure Snyder would use his own size advantage if he was wrestling Zain Retherford. Next time he will have to see if he has enough in his bag to overcome that advantage. Maybe or maybe not but pretty sure if it is possible, he is the one that can do it.
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  #96  
Old 02-12-18, 06:50 AM
td2fall td2fall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIQUA_Bolin View Post
Lol. They should set him a couple matches. Taking a forfeit even would be less painful to watch.
they have Burcher.returning national qualifier.put him in
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  #97  
Old 02-12-18, 07:23 AM
graceunder graceunder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceunder View Post
CDVA equals Certified Dumb Voluptuous .

If Coon is so awesome tell him to take a shot and earn a takedown instead of backing into a victory against a guy 60lbs lighter.
My apologies to CDVA. I cross the line with this post. I will be more careful in the future. Good Luck!
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  #98  
Old 02-12-18, 08:25 AM
Huge Huge is offline
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1st off, hats off to Coon. He absolutely can win it all come March. Second Campbell doesn't seem to able to wrestle hard for 7 minutes at this weight. I hope he will be better next year at 174. Buckeyes look like they need to take a couple of days off. The fact is there are other very good teams and loads of talented guys and sometimes they have a better day and they beat you. That's what makes the sport great. As for Snyder please make no excuses. He has had an incredible run and his being at heavy is best for the team. Even if he comes in second or third he has had a great run. But Coon is for real and you can bet other heavies will be emboldened by this and now think they have a chance.
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  #99  
Old 02-12-18, 08:42 AM
TheFan1 TheFan1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge View Post
1st off, hats off to Coon. He absolutely can win it all come March. Second Campbell doesn't seem to able to wrestle hard for 7 minutes at this weight. I hope he will be better next year at 174. Buckeyes look like they need to take a couple of days off. The fact is there are other very good teams and loads of talented guys and sometimes they have a better day and they beat you. That's what makes the sport great. As for Snyder please make no excuses. He has had an incredible run and his being at heavy is best for the team. Even if he comes in second or third he has had a great run. But Coon is for real and you can bet other heavies will be emboldened by this and now think they have a chance.
I agree they will be "emboldened"... but more so by now thinking they have absolutely NO chance (at a title that is)
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  #100  
Old 02-12-18, 09:13 AM
Tartan78 Tartan78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmalice View Post
Let's have no weight class next year. Spencer Lee vs. Mark Hall. Who likes seeing a guy give up 50 to 60 pounds( win or lose)? Safety not an issue so let's eliminate weight minimum in all wrestling. I can see in boxing Mike Tyson was able to give up weight and height advantages because of his talent but it won't last forever. Do college wrestling need a weight class between 197 and 285 or weight minimum?


Iíve been saying for years College needs a 220 weight class. if u want to keep it at 10 classes go with the same weights as Freestyle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #101  
Old 02-12-18, 09:13 AM
eliwes eliwes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceunder View Post
First, Coon took zero shots the 2nd and 3 periods and yet received 0 staling calls. It sure does make it easier to wrestle when all you need to do is play defense for 2 periods. As I stated before I salute Coon for winning but it is unfortunate that wrestling matches can be won that way. I am not talking about the last 30 seconds, Coon did not take a shot for the last 2 periods. I do not care if it is an OSU wrestler or anyone from middle school to the Olympics you should be called for staling if you do not take a shot over the last 2 periods.

Next, no complaints about the weight difference. I wrote.... I respect and admire Snyder for wrestling Coon, a great wrestler, and giving up between 50 to 60 lbs.
I find that highly commendable.
was it strategy or stalling?
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  #102  
Old 02-12-18, 09:20 AM
graceunder graceunder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
There is no reference to "shots" in the Referee guide. There are essentially only two standards to "stalling": A.) Being aggressive/trying to improve B.) Keeping the action in the middle of the mat.
This seems too nebulous. Keeping the action in the middle of the mat is self evidient. Being aggressive/trying to improve sounds so ambiguous.

Surely there needs to be an attempt to score points. Simple tying up or underhooking an opponent does not an aggressive wrestler make.
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  #103  
Old 02-12-18, 09:49 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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I am the biggest Kyle Snyder fan, but with what I saw yesterday, I don't see how he beats Coon at B10 or NCAAs.

Giving up around 60 is just too much for anyone, even Captain America. It was quite obvious watching the match that there was almost no way for him to get deep enough to score when a simple sprawl puts too much weight on him.
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  #104  
Old 02-12-18, 10:02 AM
graceunder graceunder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliwes View Post
was it strategy or stalling?
Strategy and very smart. I commend him for wrestling intelligently. Until the Ref makes him wrestle to score and he is winning why should he compromise his position. At the risk of being redundant I saluate him for winning but I believe it is unfortunate that a wrestling match can be won without being aggressive by tying to aggressively score instead of what I believe was more of a passive aggression.
BTW. I have have seen much worse stalling to win a big match than this.
I believe it was Dake vs. Taylor a few years back that Dake won and shot to score once. It does happen but I have for years stated I think it is unfortunate to win a match that way.

To your point. You are correct I believe there was strategy involved and it worked.
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  #105  
Old 02-12-18, 10:06 AM
LHS WRESTLING LHS WRESTLING is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
I am the biggest Kyle Snyder fan, but with what I saw yesterday, I don't see how he beats Coon at B10 or NCAAs.

Giving up around 60 is just too much for anyone, even Captain America. It was quite obvious watching the match that there was almost no way for him to get deep enough to score when a simple sprawl puts too much weight on him.
Angles and low singles, counter shots he will beat Coon next time...
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  #106  
Old 02-12-18, 10:10 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProV1 View Post
Coon did not win because he was stalling. I donít see how anybody could even assert that.
I can't answer that as I didn't assert it. I asked a general question that seems to me to have an obvious answer.
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  #107  
Old 02-12-18, 10:12 AM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
I am the biggest Kyle Snyder fan, but with what I saw yesterday, I don't see how he beats Coon at B10 or NCAAs.

Giving up around 60 is just too much for anyone, even Captain America. It was quite obvious watching the match that there was almost no way for him to get deep enough to score when a simple sprawl puts too much weight on him.
Honest question, is Coon substantially bigger now than when Snyder beat him, or did he just have a better strategy this time?
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  #108  
Old 02-12-18, 10:15 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHS WRESTLING View Post
Angles and low singles, counter shots he will beat Coon next time...
Every Ohio state fan in Cleveland troll Coon with a plate of pancakes. Don't he have to cut to make 285?
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  #109  
Old 02-12-18, 10:18 AM
jmog jmog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
Honest question, is Coon substantially bigger now than when Snyder beat him, or did he just have a better strategy this time?
Coon took a year off and is a better wrestler now. He maybe bigger/stronger as well which most do in a RS year.
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  #110  
Old 02-12-18, 10:19 AM
Gulliotine Gulliotine is offline
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I swear when the match started, I had a flash-back to Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant!

Somebody post the pic where the Hulkster shoulder pressed him!
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  #111  
Old 02-12-18, 10:33 AM
Cramer Cramer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceunder View Post
This seems too nebulous. Keeping the action in the middle of the mat is self evidient. Being aggressive/trying to improve sounds so ambiguous.

Surely there needs to be an attempt to score points. Simple tying up or underhooking an opponent does not an aggressive wrestler make.
Underhooks are an offense, just because you do not shoot does not mean you are not being aggressive. Someone of that size of Coon does not need to be shooting (or going to the knees to shoot). Heavy is a completely different monster when it comes to strategy and creating an offense. I don't think Coon stalled at all, other than when they hit Snyder in the first for stalling because Coon wouldn't let him back on the mat, but that's always been a peeve of mine.

I had a heavy last year who was 6'6" 285, in no way am I telling this kid to bend his big body down to shoot because someone who doesn't understand wants to think he's stalling. Bring them up to him with the hooks and trip or body lock, he's creating an offense.

Look at Snyder's interview after beating Sudaleav at the World tourny, said he used size and heavy hands to wear down Sudaleav to create the offense late to beat him. So if the size advantage is there, use it. Hopefully Snyder keeps training with Taha Akgul the reigning 125kg gold medalist from Turkey to work on the size advantage.
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  #112  
Old 02-12-18, 10:39 AM
Groundhog Groundhog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulliotine View Post
I swear when the match started, I had a flash-back to Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant!

Somebody post the pic where the Hulkster shoulder pressed him!
How about Chris Taylor...

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  #113  
Old 02-12-18, 10:55 AM
graceunder graceunder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cramer View Post
Underhooks are an offense, just because you do not shoot does not mean you are not being aggressive. Someone of that size of Coon does not need to be shooting (or going to the knees to shoot). Heavy is a completely different monster when it comes to strategy and creating an offense. I don't think Coon stalled at all, other than when they hit Snyder in the first for stalling because Coon wouldn't let him back on the mat, but that's always been a peeve of mine.

I had a heavy last year who was 6'6" 285, in no way am I telling this kid to bend his big body down to shoot because someone who doesn't understand wants to think he's stalling. Bring them up to him with the hooks and trip or body lock, he's creating an offense.

Look at Snyder's interview after beating Sudaleav at the World tourny, said he used size and heavy hands to wear down Sudaleav to create the offense late to beat him. So if the size advantage is there, use it. Hopefully Snyder keeps training with Taha Akgul the reigning 125kg gold medalist from Turkey to work on the size advantage.
Underhooks by themselves are not offensive. They can lead to offensive scoring. I have never seen I wrester recieve points for an underhook. I have seen numberous wrestlers use underhooks for a setup but I have also seen them use it for a passive aggressive move. That is when the ref needs to step in and force some action, warning by call stalemate first and then staling. Underhooks maybe smart wrestling but by themselves no pionts will be scored.
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  #114  
Old 02-12-18, 11:03 AM
Suplexer130 Suplexer130 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceunder View Post
Underhooks by themselves are not offensive. They can lead to offensive scoring. I have never seen I wrester recieve points for an underhook. I have seen numberous wrestlers use underhooks for a setup but I have also seen them use it for a passive aggressive move. That is when the ref needs to step in and force some action, warning by call stalemate first and then staling. Underhooks maybe smart wrestling but by themselves no pionts will be scored.
Have you ever received a point for simply shooting or does it then require a finish to score? Shooting and hitting a knee does not score points either.
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  #115  
Old 02-12-18, 11:10 AM
CincyWrestler CincyWrestler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceunder View Post
Strategy and very smart. I commend him for wrestling intelligently. Until the Ref makes him wrestle to score and he is winning why should he compromise his position. At the risk of being redundant I saluate him for winning but I believe it is unfortunate that a wrestling match can be won without being aggressive by tying to aggressively score instead of what I believe was more of a passive aggression.
BTW. I have have seen much worse stalling to win a big match than this.
I believe it was Dake vs. Taylor a few years back that Dake won and shot to score once. It does happen but I have for years stated I think it is unfortunate to win a match that way.

To your point. You are correct I believe there was strategy involved and it worked.
I think you're way off base man, this is college wrestling where one takedown and staying in the middle and taking ground can win you a match. If you recall Snyder beat J'den Cox the same way, got a takedown in the first with one good shot and played defense in the middle the rest of the match. I bet you weren't complaining then. Coon took a good shot in the first and knew how Snyder would counter and capitalized. I'm rooting for Snyder but to suddenly complain about the style of college wrestling cause your hero lost is redic.
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  #116  
Old 02-12-18, 11:33 AM
Cramer Cramer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suplexer130 View Post
Have you ever received a point for simply shooting or does it then require a finish to score? Shooting and hitting a knee does not score points either.
This ^^^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by graceunder View Post
Underhooks by themselves are not offensive. They can lead to offensive scoring. I have never seen I wrester recieve points for an underhook. I have seen numberous wrestlers use underhooks for a setup but I have also seen them use it for a passive aggressive move. That is when the ref needs to step in and force some action, warning by call stalemate first and then staling. Underhooks maybe smart wrestling but by themselves no pionts will be scored.
No, they're called set-ups, just like a bicep tie, collar tie, 2 on 1, etc. All can be used to stall, all can be used to be offensive. Coon has a size advantage so he uses an underhook to move/manipulate his opponent, thus creating an offense. Coon is a Greco guy, he knows how to use those hooks to his advantage.

Just because someone's style does not fit into your little box, does not make it wrong or stalling.
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  #117  
Old 02-12-18, 11:37 AM
graceunder graceunder is offline
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Originally Posted by Suplexer130 View Post
Have you ever received a point for simply shooting or does it then require a finish to score? Shooting and hitting a knee does not score points either.
You are comparing apples and oranges. If you watch Synders shots they have deep penetration that requires much more aggression and effort then an underhook.
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  #118  
Old 02-12-18, 11:42 AM
Suplexer130 Suplexer130 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceunder View Post
You are comparing apples and oranges. If you watch Synders shots they have deep penetration that requires much more aggression and effort then an underhook.
You said you can't score points from an under hook alone, I countered you can't score points anymore so from a shot alone. In both cases the initial action is used to secure some sort of finish and in both cases they can be used to stall. You say they are apple to oranges, but you are the one that brought the ability of a move to score points up.

You are trying to shift the rules to fit your vision of wrestling while disregarding that plenty of scoring can occur from things done above the waist. A person who does nothing but go for upper body throws can be more aggressive than someone shooting and looking to hang on and stall. The rules are written to take the type of attack out of the equation. Trying to specify attacks is it's own slippery slope as then you are defining what meets the criteria of a "shot".
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  #119  
Old 02-12-18, 11:54 AM
OCEagle OCEagle is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr.wrsln2 View Post
It has to be close to 86 degrees in here.
I suppose that was a feeble attempt at sarcasm. I was there and the temperature was perfect at around 70 degrees inside and about 20 degrees outside. Nice crowd and very enthusiastic. I would say of the 8,000 fans in the stands, about 3,000 were Ohio State fans up from the Toledo area.
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  #120  
Old 02-12-18, 12:03 PM
graceunder graceunder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suplexer130 View Post
You said you can't score points from an under hook alone, I countered you can't score points anymore so from a shot alone. In both cases the initial action is used to secure some sort of finish and in both cases they can be used to stall. You say they are apple to oranges, but you are the one that brought the ability of a move to score points up.

You are trying to shift the rules to fit your vision of wrestling while disregarding that plenty of scoring can occur from things done above the waist. A person who does nothing but go for upper body throws can be more aggressive than someone shooting and looking to hang on and stall. The rules are written to take the type of attack out of the equation. Trying to specify attacks is it's own slippery slope as then you are defining what meets the criteria of a "shot".
Notice you went from underhooks to upper body throws. With that change we now agree.
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