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  #1  
Old 12-03-17, 12:50 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Promoting Girls Basketball?

I was at a girls youth basketball game today and was talking with several parents from different communities. This league is a community based all-star 3rd through 6th grade teams. There was alot of discussion about why girls basketball seems to be on hard times right now. They talked of way too many girls leaving the sport, especially for volleyball, soccer, and softball.

So my question is, what can be done to turn this around? I know that this forum isn't necessarily representative of the overall sports picture in Ohio, but I feel it's pretty accurate when it comes to girls basketball. This was at one time a very popular board. Right up there with wrestling and boys basketball. Now it's a fraction the size of those boards on here.

Any suggestions for improving girls basketball in general (not specifically to this board)? How can we open up girls basketball to more people?
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Old 12-03-17, 01:44 PM
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I suspect a shift in popularity of volleyball, soccer, and softball over basketball is a suburban thing. I don't think urban communities have seen such a shift. Another factor could be the belief that there are greater scholarship opportunities in the other sports, especially soccer and softball.
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Old 12-03-17, 01:52 PM
NEOsportsfan09 NEOsportsfan09 is offline
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Originally Posted by just a fan View Post
I suspect a shift in popularity of volleyball, soccer, and softball over basketball is a suburban thing. I don't think urban communities have seen such a shift. Another factor could be the belief that there are greater scholarship opportunities in the other sports, especially soccer and softball.
There's a factor too where in softball and volleyball, parents believe that they aren't as "physical" and less risk of injury than basketball. So I see parents pushing their kids to specialize in those sports.

The irony is I believe that there is more talent in girls basketball in the state of Ohio now than there has ever been. There's just not as many participating in the sport. I know a lot of programs having a hard time getting enough kids for even JV teams, that never had a problem with getting JV teams in the past.
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Old 12-03-17, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NEOsportsfan09 View Post
There's a factor too where in softball and volleyball, parents believe that they aren't as "physical" and less risk of injury than basketball. So I see parents pushing their kids to specialize in those sports.

The irony is I believe that there is more talent in girls basketball in the state of Ohio now than there has ever been. There's just not as many participating in the sport. I know a lot of programs having a hard time getting enough kids for even JV teams, that never had a problem with getting JV teams in the past.
I was surprised a few years back when some schools stopped fielding freshmen teams. Now its getting to the point that JV teams can be a struggle.

I sometimes wonder if the kids specializing are the ones that actually push all the others away. If you take two equal girls and one specializes, she's going to outperform the other. Does the second girl feel inferior and give up basketball?
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Old 12-03-17, 11:19 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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All of the above- year round club soccer and volleyball are the biggest factor. I also think that the coaches expectations for off season training and volunteering at some schools is out of control and is too big of a time commitment for all but the most dedicated. It is a shame as some kids may start to shine after freshman year but don't make it that far.

Great point yappi about 2 equal girls- My daughter played AAU but stopped stopped after her freshman year because she wasn't aiming at playing in college and started another sport that she loved in the spring. Because of her height (and her off season training) she was able to still start for her team but I wonder if she had been 5'5 if that would have happened. Funny thing is now my daughter is playing in college- without playing AAU. A coach saw her on film that was sent to her by someone else! How's that for luck? Her high school is not fielding a JV this year due to numbers- very sad.
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Old 12-04-17, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
All of the above- year round club soccer and volleyball are the biggest factor. I also think that the coaches expectations for off season training and volunteering at some schools is out of control and is too big of a time commitment for all but the most dedicated.
I believe this is the biggest factor, particularly "June". June is the middle of summer softball and also only 2 months from volleyball season. Yet, in Ohio, June is basketball season for HS players if a players hopes to be a significant part of their team in November/December. Plus basketball season stretches into the JO volleyball season making it extremely difficult for girls that play volleyball/soccer, basketball, and softball to do all 3 if they desire to play all 3 at a high level of skill. The one that interferes the most seems to be basketball so likely becomes the first one dropped.
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Old 12-04-17, 02:16 PM
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AAU killed the sport. It forced the year round dedication and later OHSAA forcing a June period on the high school teams. Now you are really forced to be a one sport athlete. Add into that the AAU parasites and most girls are just not interested.
The days of a girl playing volleyball then basketball then softball/track are over, its dedicate or perish.
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Old 12-05-17, 02:35 PM
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The decline in participation is a multi-headed monster and it is not only affecting the players. Many, many great coaches have left the game due to the year around commitment requirement and unrealistic parents who have had their heads filled by some external influence about how great their kid can play. Maybe for some it is that the game is so physical, but that is only a kid here or there. We have a local guy/AAU coach who at his highest peak was a JV girls high school coach. This guy who claims to be promoting girls basketball and all the scholarships is driving a wedge between many parents and the high school coaches. Classic over-hype to the point where I know of several players no longer participating because of no verbal offer by the sophomore or junior year. And this joker told them they were the greatest..keep an eye on them college coaches...player of the year candidate...not getting enough minutes on the high school team. How is this promoting anything expect a fight between the parents and schools...and the kids feeling like a failure because no offers come rolling in. Keep in mind the one things that still stands...only 2% of high school athletes will play college sports. In basketball the high school coach still plays a role in the recruiting process even if just as a reference and there isn't an AAU coach that can do anything about that. Be humble, play hard while you can and keep up your grades. If you want to play in college great! That is a good goal, but it is NOT the reason you play!! You play because you love it.
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Old 12-07-17, 10:25 AM
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Or it could be that the teams now winning have few fans on here. When Alter was winning, the board was on fire. Now that they are in rebuilding mode, crickets.

I think fanbase has a lot to do with it.
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Old 12-07-17, 01:54 PM
multisportdad multisportdad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
I was at a girls youth basketball game today and was talking with several parents from different communities. This league is a community based all-star 3rd through 6th grade teams. There was alot of discussion about why girls basketball seems to be on hard times right now. They talked of way too many girls leaving the sport, especially for volleyball, soccer, and softball.

So my question is, what can be done to turn this around? I know that this forum isn't necessarily representative of the overall sports picture in Ohio, but I feel it's pretty accurate when it comes to girls basketball. This was at one time a very popular board. Right up there with wrestling and boys basketball. Now it's a fraction the size of those boards on here.

Any suggestions for improving girls basketball in general (not specifically to this board)? How can we open up girls basketball to more people?
What does the bold above mean? anyone who signs up gets to play? players are 'selected'? depending on the answer, part of the issue may lie there.
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Old 12-07-17, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by multisportdad View Post
What does the bold above mean? anyone who signs up gets to play? players are 'selected'? depending on the answer, part of the issue may lie there.
Travel teams based on the community they live in. These are Summit, Stark, Portage, and Medina County travel teams from communities like Wadsworth, Tallmadge, Kent, Stow, North Canton, etc. And yes, players are selected based on each community's method of team selection.
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Old 12-07-17, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by El Indio View Post
Or it could be that the teams now winning have few fans on here. When Alter was winning, the board was on fire. Now that they are in rebuilding mode, crickets.

I think fanbase has a lot to do with it.
This thread doesn't really have much to do with this site, instead, it's the overall health of the sport in Ohio. The trend for participation and attendance in OHSAA sports is on the decline but it seems like girls basketball is in the most critical decline.

The OHSAA has been putting out memos the last few years about declining attendance and its effect on the member schools.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-17, 03:02 PM
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Could part of the issue be the demand for year round activities in girls hoops (summer tournaments, open gyms) has caused the HS coaches to shift attention to that stuff and taken it away from overseeing what's happening in their jr. high system to ensure that the JH coaches are doing what is needed to keep girls interested in playing?

My school hasn't fielded a freshman team for about a decade and isn't fielding a JV team this year for the 1st time ever. Only 3 freshmen came out this year which tells me that the right things aren't happening in our junior high feeder system. It's arguably the most successful girls sport at the school with 15 district final appearances, 8 district titles (most recent one was 2 years ago), and 1 state runner-up, so it's not like the program is a loser.

Another question is: how many girls still want to compete or want "contact?" Basketball is a competition sport but is also viewed by girls as a "contact" sport. Volleyball is viewed as competition but not "contact," so it has more than enough girls to fielded varsity, JV, and freshman teams at my school. Our volleyball team never won anything before this year's district title. Equally bizarre at my school is that girls tennis and cross country numbers are up while soccer numbers are down (no JV soccer team this past fall). Again, soccer is "contact" while the other 2 aren't. Soccer is viewed more as a competition sport than the other 2. The other major winter options for girls at my school are swimming which is viewed by many of the kids as a participation sport rather than a competition sport, and is definitely not a "contact" sport. The girls swimming team's numbers are far from small. I don't know what bowling's numbers are like this winter. In the spring, softball struggles to field a team while girls track and field has more than enough. Neither is a "contact" sport, but one is a competition sport while the other is more of a participation sport. Could girls be steering away from basketball and soccer because they view those sports as a head or knee injury waiting to happen?

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 12-08-17 at 11:32 AM. Reason: brushed up on some details
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Old 12-07-17, 03:58 PM
multisportdad multisportdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Travel teams based on the community they live in. These are Summit, Stark, Portage, and Medina County travel teams from communities like Wadsworth, Tallmadge, Kent, Stow, North Canton, etc. And yes, players are selected based on each community's method of team selection.
Are there girls in those communities that have no where else to play if they aren't selected?

I also think pay to play is a factor. Some girls don't have the talent level to play as much as the other girls (just a fact of life), but in the past that was ok, because they could participate and all it cost was their time. Now, though, with the financial costs involved, it becomes a more difficult decision to determine if not playing most of the time is worth the investment.
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Old 12-07-17, 08:41 PM
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Are there girls in those communities that have no where else to play if they aren't selected?

I also think pay to play is a factor. Some girls don't have the talent level to play as much as the other girls (just a fact of life), but in the past that was ok, because they could participate and all it cost was their time. Now, though, with the financial costs involved, it becomes a more difficult decision to determine if not playing most of the time is worth the investment.
For most of them, I really don't know. Of the communities that I do know, they have a rec league and a travel team for their better players.

One thing that I've seen for both boys and girls teams in the past, when an age group had a solid travel team, fewer kids tried out when they got to middle school teams. When there was no travel team or the travel team was very weak, alot more kids tried out. I always attributed this to "self-cutting" where kids felt like they didn't belong with the travel ball players. I know of one example from 7th grade boys this year that just happened. The boy is better than half the players but felt intimidated to tryout against them because they came in knowing each other on the court.
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Old 12-08-17, 08:26 AM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Another question is: how many girls still want to compete or want "contact?" Basketball is a competition sport but is also viewed by girls as a "contact" sport. Volleyball is viewed as competition but not "contact," so it has more than enough girls to fielded varsity, JV, and freshman teams at my school. Our volleyball team never won anything before this year's district title. Equally bizarre at my school is that girls tennis and cross country numbers are up while soccer numbers are down (no JV soccer team this past fall). Again, soccer is "contact" while the other 2 aren't. Soccer is viewed more as a competition sport than the other 2. The other major winter option for girls at my school are swimming which is viewed by many of the kids as a participation sport rather than a competition sport, and is definitely not a "contact" sport. The girls swimming team's numbers are far from small. I don't know what bowling's numbers are like this winter. In the spring, softball struggles to field a team while girls track and field has more than enough. Neither is a "contact" sport, but one is a competition sport while the other is more of a participation sport. Could girls be steering away from basketball and soccer because they view those sports as a head or knee injury waiting to happen?
Just some numbers for you Slip, taken from the winter program:

Girls Basketball (11) - (3) Seniors, (3) Juniors, (2) Sophomores, (3) Freshmen

Swimming - Girls (18), Boys (9)
Bowling - Girls (7), Boys (17)
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Old 12-08-17, 04:33 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Just some numbers for you Slip, taken from the winter program:

Girls Basketball (11) - (3) Seniors, (3) Juniors, (2) Sophomores, (3) Freshmen
That is truly amazing. The 3 Seniors I can understand because of attrition but the other levels really don't make sense.
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Old 12-08-17, 06:19 PM
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That is truly amazing. The 3 Seniors I can understand because of attrition but the other levels really don't make sense.
After reading TriangleMan's post regarding participation numbers in the winter sports, it would seem that the numbers are more in line with the school's decreasing enrollment. It makes me wonder how the school's female enrollment is able to continue supporting 7 activities in the fall: soccer, tennis (enough for V & JV), golf, volleyball (enough for V, JV, & F), cross country (enough for V & JV), cheer, and band. Granted, there is some sharing going on in tennis, cross country, cheer, and band.

Back to basketball, there were 15 kids out last year which was just enough to eke out a V and JV schedule. The class-by-class breakdown was: 3 seniors, 3 juniors, 5 sophomores (1 did not come back out, and 1 who started some games transferred after the school year), and 4 freshmen (2 did not come back out this year. 1 of the 2 got playing time in the tournament last year).

I have no idea what participation is like at the junior high level, but I'll wager that the lack of a freshman team is a major obstacle in that it discourages some of the more marginally talented freshmen from coming out because they don't want to have to play against sophomores and juniors right away. The same thing happens in football at smaller schools where some would play if there was a freshman team, but they (and their parents) don't want to be facing older kids at the JV or varsity level just yet. Unfortunately in girls hoops, the problem is so widespread that even if a freshman team could suddenly be fielded, there are so few other freshman teams nearby to create much of a schedule. It appears that only 3 schools in Stark County are fielding freshman teams this year: Hoover, Jackson, and McKinley.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 12-08-17 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 12-08-17, 06:32 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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I think another problem that I've seen in some sports is that freshmen team players rarely move on to play varsity later on in their career. There is always attrition and the more talented players in some sports skip freshmen sports completely and move on to JV or Varsity.

Because of this, I think some coaches think the freshmen teams are a waste of time. They don't want to make the big effort of finding a coach, setting up schedules, recruiting the halls to fill out a team, getting uniforms, and sharing gym time. Again, this is not specific to girls basketball.
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Old 12-09-17, 08:49 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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This is the first year in a long time that I don't have a high school basketball player and I will say I miss it but it is a grind on our schedule compared to other sports. The season lasts through 4-5 months including major holiday breaks and semester exams. Compare that to fall and spring sports which are usually more compact time wise plus missing out on a family time and winter training for other sports and it loses appeal for some.
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Old 12-27-17, 09:39 AM
Big Ragu Big Ragu is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
I was surprised a few years back when some schools stopped fielding freshmen teams. Now its getting to the point that JV teams can be a struggle.

I sometimes wonder if the kids specializing are the ones that actually push all the others away. If you take two equal girls and one specializes, she's going to outperform the other. Does the second girl feel inferior and give up basketball?
I would bet that some girls are turned away due to this. I believe a bigger factor lies in the growth of other sports. Obviously soccer is the big one. Year ‘round club teams make it difficult to be a multi sport athlete. The rise in popularity of lacrosse and volleyball have also affected basketball numbers. Small schools “suffer” the most here.
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Old 12-30-17, 08:38 PM
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I haven't seen where sticking to one sport has hurt Girls Basketball. I know a lot of Girls Basketball Players, and athletes in general who play multiple sports, they focus on one sport tho and thats the one they play travel/AAU for. Izzy Kline at Newton Falls played Travel Basketball, but she also played Volleyball and Track at Newton Falls. She's going to Cincy for Track. Lauren Jones from Garrettsville who's at Oklahoma right now for Track. She played Basketball, Softball, Volleyball, and Track at Garrettsville. Grayson Rose who played Travel Basketball for Huddle, she went to Garrettsville as well she's a Freshman at Northern Kentucky on the basketball team. While at G-Ville she played Volleyball as well. I think it all depends what sport the girl wants to really focus on Softball, Volleyball, Basketball, Soccer all of those you need to play Travel in order to get noticed. Pick one to play Travel, play the rest in high school.. Brittany Knight who was a Freshman this past year at University of Pitt she's a Pitcher from Windham. She played Softball, Basketball, and Volleyball at Windham. While playing Travel Softball during Summer. Theres a lot of factors, I feel parents also have to be smarter if their daughter is 5'4 I wouldn't push her in Basketball if she's good at Softball thats the sport I'd focus on mainly and let her play HS Basketball but softball HS and Travel. But I will say this i've noticed that Girls High School Basketball in Ohio has a TON of talent and really really deep. Every area, Northeast, Northwest, Central, South all parts of the State has talent. Also fans still love Boys Basketball over Girls, a lot of the girls games its only parents/family going to the games.. Some communities you get people from within the community or surrounding towns show up, just depends how good the team is and who's playing. Another factor could also go back to what part of the state you live in, certain parts and areas have other sports over other areas. Where I live in Northeast Ohio, in my area not a lot of schools have sports lacrosse, only at like Hudson, Solon, and those type schools.. But in Trumbull County not a lot schools offer that, some schools offer Tennis but not a lot. There are a lot of factors and blame that could be passed around, can't put your finger on one thing. But I love the girls game, if you wanna see good basketball go out and watch a game. Find player/s or team/s in your area and watch!
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Old 12-31-17, 05:53 PM
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Promoting Girls Basketball?

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Originally Posted by bmcphers7 View Post
I haven't seen where sticking to one sport has hurt Girls Basketball. I know a lot of Girls Basketball Players, and athletes in general who play multiple sports, they focus on one sport tho and thats the one they play travel/AAU for. Izzy Kline at Newton Falls played Travel Basketball, but she also played Volleyball and Track at Newton Falls. She's going to Cincy for Track. Lauren Jones from Garrettsville who's at Oklahoma right now for Track. She played Basketball, Softball, Volleyball, and Track at Garrettsville. Grayson Rose who played Travel Basketball for Huddle, she went to Garrettsville as well she's a Freshman at Northern Kentucky on the basketball team. While at G-Ville she played Volleyball as well. I think it all depends what sport the girl wants to really focus on Softball, Volleyball, Basketball, Soccer all of those you need to play Travel in order to get noticed. Pick one to play Travel, play the rest in high school.. Brittany Knight who was a Freshman this past year at University of Pitt she's a Pitcher from Windham. She played Softball, Basketball, and Volleyball at Windham. While playing Travel Softball during Summer. Theres a lot of factors, I feel parents also have to be smarter if their daughter is 5'4 I wouldn't push her in Basketball if she's good at Softball thats the sport I'd focus on mainly and let her play HS Basketball but softball HS and Travel. But I will say this i've noticed that Girls High School Basketball in Ohio has a TON of talent and really really deep. Every area, Northeast, Northwest, Central, South all parts of the State has talent. Also fans still love Boys Basketball over Girls, a lot of the girls games its only parents/family going to the games.. Some communities you get people from within the community or surrounding towns show up, just depends how good the team is and who's playing. Another factor could also go back to what part of the state you live in, certain parts and areas have other sports over other areas. Where I live in Northeast Ohio, in my area not a lot of schools have sports lacrosse, only at like Hudson, Solon, and those type schools.. But in Trumbull County not a lot schools offer that, some schools offer Tennis but not a lot. There are a lot of factors and blame that could be passed around, can't put your finger on one thing. But I love the girls game, if you wanna see good basketball go out and watch a game. Find player/s or team/s in your area and watch!

I don’t know any of the girls you’ve mentioned, but the theme is that they all play at smaller high schools. The volleyball coach will gladly take the star basketball player who plays AAU vs JO in the spring. And if you’re the star pitcher on the high school team who’s good enough to get a D1 scholarship, the softball coach doesn’t necessarily need you at open gyms and such like the mid-level player.

That doesn’t happen anywhere near as much at D2 and above schools.

My daughter has played JO volleyball with another girl who plays varsity volleyball, basketball, cheers boys basketball and does Track. She’s at a D3 school in a semi-rural area. That couldn’t happen at a Hudson or a Stow too often simply due to the number of bodies chasing down spots on those teams.




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Old 01-01-18, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
I think another problem that I've seen in some sports is that freshmen team players rarely move on to play varsity later on in their career. There is always attrition and the more talented players in some sports skip freshmen sports completely and move on to JV or Varsity.

Because of this, I think some coaches think the freshmen teams are a waste of time. They don't want to make the big effort of finding a coach, setting up schedules, recruiting the halls to fill out a team, getting uniforms, and sharing gym time. Again, this is not specific to girls basketball.
Agree - Coaches; or the school find it unimportant as the best freshmen will make the varsity anyway.

Then there is the competition factor at least in the big cities and suburbs. A few teams load up with DIV I athletes and their is no hope for an average kid to compete so they look to other activities.

Lack of fans can be blamed on the above and playing the same nights as the boys (rule in some places). One of the powerhouses had 12-15 supporters show up at our gym for an expected beat down.
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Old 01-18-18, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NEOsportsfan09 View Post
There's a factor too where in softball and volleyball, parents believe that they aren't as "physical" and less risk of injury than basketball. So I see parents pushing their kids to specialize in those sports.

The irony is I believe that there is more talent in girls basketball in the state of Ohio now than there has ever been. There's just not as many participating in the sport. I know a lot of programs having a hard time getting enough kids for even JV teams, that never had a problem with getting JV teams in the past.
When my daughter walked off the floor in Cbus a few years ago in the championship game as a senior, I just said, "Whew. It's over." Her team lost, but what I felt was relief that she went through camps starting in 1st grade, biddy ball and travel teams from grades 3-6, junior high ball, one year of AAU, and 4 years of varsity basketball without blowing out her ACL.

Basketball is a game of thousands of foot plants and firm stops. Clearly, the female adolescent knee is at a very high risk of rupture under those stresses. I saw the ACL Monster reach up and bite dozens of girls through my daughter's playing years.

The surgery they do today is amazing, and I've seen kids come back from it in as little as 4 months. But I've also seen failed surgery, re-tears of the repaired knee, new tears of the other knee, and failed rehab. That's a high price for a kid to pay to play a game.

We got through it unscathed, but any sane parent has to take the risk of this particular injury into consideration when deciding whether their daughter will play basketball.
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  #26  
Old 01-18-18, 01:13 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Could part of the issue be the demand for year round activities in girls hoops (summer tournaments, open gyms) has caused the HS coaches to shift attention to that stuff and taken it away from overseeing what's happening in their jr. high system to ensure that the JH coaches are doing what is needed to keep girls interested in playing?

My school hasn't fielded a freshman team for about a decade and isn't fielding a JV team this year for the 1st time ever. Only 3 freshmen came out this year which tells me that the right things aren't happening in our junior high feeder system. It's arguably the most successful girls sport at the school with 15 district final appearances, 8 district titles (most recent one was 2 years ago), and 1 state runner-up, so it's not like the program is a loser.

Another question is: how many girls still want to compete or want "contact?" Basketball is a competition sport but is also viewed by girls as a "contact" sport. Volleyball is viewed as competition but not "contact," so it has more than enough girls to fielded varsity, JV, and freshman teams at my school. Our volleyball team never won anything before this year's district title. Equally bizarre at my school is that girls tennis and cross country numbers are up while soccer numbers are down (no JV soccer team this past fall). Again, soccer is "contact" while the other 2 aren't. Soccer is viewed more as a competition sport than the other 2. The other major winter options for girls at my school are swimming which is viewed by many of the kids as a participation sport rather than a competition sport, and is definitely not a "contact" sport. The girls swimming team's numbers are far from small. I don't know what bowling's numbers are like this winter. In the spring, softball struggles to field a team while girls track and field has more than enough. Neither is a "contact" sport, but one is a competition sport while the other is more of a participation sport. Could girls be steering away from basketball and soccer because they view those sports as a head or knee injury waiting to happen?
I hate to see kids walking away from opportunities to play sports. Basketball requires a high degree of skills to play well - dribbling with both hands, passing, shooting with form, offensive body positioning and moves, proper defensive stance and reaction, rebound positioning, etc. Kids generally have to work very hard to acquire those skills and play at a high level. If they want to play in college and earn a scholarship, I can see them choosing to "specialize" in basketball.

OTH, if they aren't big, talented, or skilled enough to play at least DII NCAA basketball, when they quit other sports, they are giving up something that they can never get back - the opportunity to play games that mean something. Most kids will never play in a meaningful athletic contest beyond HS, so there is a limited chance to do that, and it's a shame when they piddle that opportunity away.

I think society has changed. Parents and kids are busy, they don't value the lessons and benefits they get from sports like they used to, and I sense that people are just lazier than they used to be. This may be due to me being older and grumpier, but I believe that parents value not having to shuttle kids to practice and attend games so that they have more free time to check their Facebook, than they do presenting their kids an opportunity to learn discipline, teamwork, goals, hard work, etc. Regardless, get off my lawn!
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  #27  
Old 01-18-18, 01:33 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by BobRoss View Post
AAU killed the sport. It forced the year round dedication and later OHSAA forcing a June period on the high school teams. Now you are really forced to be a one sport athlete. Add into that the AAU parasites and most girls are just not interested.
The days of a girl playing volleyball then basketball then softball/track are over, its dedicate or perish.
I had an opportunity to experience AAU with a kid who could have played DII, maybe mid-major DI ball, but she would have had to work really hard to get there - and try to get into a higher level of AAU. Her HS team also played in high profile tournaments where they played against elite AAU teams, so I have a reasonable sense of what it is and does.

AAU provides exposure and opportunities to talented kids, so that's good. On the elite levels of AAU, there are some really fine people involved, but I have been disturbed by some of the things that happen, and wonder if it doesn't cross the line into exploitation. But on the lower levels of AAU I think there are a ton of well-intentioned coaches who are just trying to develop and help kids. It's a parent-beware kind of thing.

If you are a kid who has Geno sending you letters, calling, and visiting you, that's a completely different thing than if you might be able to get an offer from West Liberty if you go through the AAU circus.

But I wouldn't go to the extent of saying that AAU has ruined girls HS basketball. I would only say that I'm not certain that it is a net positive for the individual players or the sport as a whole.
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  #28  
Old 01-20-18, 02:08 PM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Never coached girls but have talked to numerous who have. AAU has made a bigger impact on the girls game than the boys. Girls develop faster and with the experience gained through a high level AAU program a girl who is a physically developed Freshman can compete for varsity time. This can cause those girls placed on the lower level teams to see the handwriting on the wall, and decide to throw in the towel on basketball in favor of another sport.

What about the increased physicality of the game, are girls turned off by that phase of the game?
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  #29  
Old 02-01-18, 03:22 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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I could never get my son to go to girls games with me. He went to a few of his sister's games, but wasn't happy about it. I tried to get him to not compare it to the boys game, but appreciate it for what it is - a purer form of the game that relies on execution over athleticism. But he literally hated it, and most of that has to do with some peculiar things girls do that boys generally don't.

1) Just the general lack of strength with the ball that results in a lot of loose balls, turnovers, and tie-ups.

2) The lack of body control that results in a lot of physical contact/collisions and falling on the floor. This creates an uglier, less flowing game.

3) Boys will grab a rebound securely, chin the ball, pivot away from the defense, and outlet the ball. Girls will often grab a rebound and pivot toward the defense with the ball low. This results in girls hanging around the rebound and slapping at the ball like mad, and, frequently, they dislodge it. Girls will also often try to outlet the ball too fast and get their pass stolen. So, when a girl rebounds, the other team doesn't necessarily consider the play over on that end. They hang around and see if they can steal it from the rebounder or steal the outlet. This contributes to an uglier game.

4) Finally, girls do not handle end of clock situations well. I'd guess that in games I have watched, getting a shot off only happens half of the time. They are usually running a play, and they will run the play regardless of time left. They will often be dribbling when the clock runs out, or they will pass with less than a second left. I don't know whether it is the lack of a mental clock in their heads or perhaps that they think that the goal is to run the play, not get a shot off, but it is common for the clock to run out without a shot being attempted, and you just have to shrug and be amazed.

If you get two highly skilled and athletic teams playing, it looks more like the boys game and is more aesthetic. But most of girls BB is played with a more average to poor set of skills and athletic ability, and you get a lot of the above 4 issues. The worst case scenario is when you have a high end group of girls with skills and athletic ability vs. a low end group. That's why we see 102-4 scores in the tournament.

So, the girls game doesn't meet the expectations of people, especially those who judge it by how boys play it. I think fans need to stop comparing the two, and appreciate girls BB for being a game of execution. You can't make girls as athletic as boys, but you can increase their skill level. I think the game would increase in popularity if it became smoother through higher skill. But it will never be as "pretty" as the male version of the game simply due to the size, speed, and strength differences.
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  #30  
Old 02-01-18, 03:34 PM
Big Ragu Big Ragu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
Never coached girls but have talked to numerous who have. AAU has made a bigger impact on the girls game than the boys. Girls develop faster and with the experience gained through a high level AAU program a girl who is a physically developed Freshman can compete for varsity time. This can cause those girls placed on the lower level teams to see the handwriting on the wall, and decide to throw in the towel on basketball in favor of another sport.

What about the increased physicality of the game, are girls turned off by that phase of the game?
My understanding is that the increased physicality was an influence in the rise of volleyball. Well, that's what an old timer (even older than myself) told me a few years back.
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