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  #31  
Old 02-11-18, 01:07 PM
Joe Daugherty Joe Daugherty is offline
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D1 has 4 of 8 teams nationally ranked in the top 20
Wish I could have made it to see these matches.
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  #32  
Old 02-12-18, 09:49 AM
OUcats82 OUcats82 is offline
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Does anyone know how the ASVSM vs. Ross dual ended up?

I only saw some very basic Tweets but nothing about how the tie breaker was assessed etc.

Wow-how good is St. Paris Graham? They chose to bump up a division and still won the championship. Did Ed's put out a full squad with their best?

Any thoughts on the overall interest/longevity of this dual format? Seems like a lot of teams maybe didn't put everything they have out to win to save back for conference meets/the traditional state tournament.
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  #33  
Old 02-12-18, 10:08 AM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUcats82 View Post
Does anyone know how the ASVSM vs. Ross dual ended up?

I only saw some very basic Tweets but nothing about how the tie breaker was assessed etc.

Wow-how good is St. Paris Graham? They chose to bump up a division and still won the championship. Did Ed's put out a full squad with their best?

Any thoughts on the overall interest/longevity of this dual format? Seems like a lot of teams maybe didn't put everything they have out to win to save back for conference meets/the traditional state tournament.
For the D1 duals, looked like the teams had the best available line ups and tons of good matches happened. Learned a lot about the D1 individual state landscape, like the match of Mason vs. St.Eds and Brecksville vs. St. Eds.
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  #34  
Old 02-12-18, 11:27 AM
speedthatkills speedthatkills is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OUcats82 View Post
Does anyone know how the ASVSM vs. Ross dual ended up?

I only saw some very basic Tweets but nothing about how the tie breaker was assessed etc.

Wow-how good is St. Paris Graham? They chose to bump up a division and still won the championship. Did Ed's put out a full squad with their best?

Any thoughts on the overall interest/longevity of this dual format? Seems like a lot of teams maybe didn't put everything they have out to win to save back for conference meets/the traditional state tournament.
Ross match tiebreaker from the paper: Criterion "C" was the eventual tiebreaker, which for lack of a better way to describe it, came down to 182-pounder Austin Hamblin's win due to the disqualification of his Fighting Irish opponent.

Last edited by speedthatkills; 02-12-18 at 11:47 AM.
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  #35  
Old 02-12-18, 11:58 AM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is offline
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The teams that held back did not make it to St. Johns. I think everybody wrestling yesterday was wrestling to win or measure themselves against the very best.
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  #36  
Old 02-12-18, 12:19 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Originally Posted by bluepride1990 View Post
The teams that held back did not make it to St. Johns. I think everybody wrestling yesterday was wrestling to win or measure themselves against the very best.
Except Wauseon. They held back a little bit in the semi match at the end.
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  #37  
Old 02-12-18, 12:27 PM
Krasula24 Krasula24 is offline
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What they did was smart. Why risk an injury for a state title if you have a dual already won?
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  #38  
Old 02-12-18, 01:06 PM
szerszen szerszen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
Except Wauseon. They held back a little bit in the semi match at the end.
Isn't the point to win the State Title?

Once they had the semi-final locked up, why would they needlessly make their kids tired for the Final?

That is just smart team wrestling!
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  #39  
Old 02-12-18, 01:19 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szerszen View Post
Isn't the point to win the State Title?

Once they had the semi-final locked up, why would they needlessly make their kids tired for the Final?

That is just smart team wrestling!
I never once gave an opinion on that decision. Someone stated that the teams that held back weren't involved in the matches yesterday and those that were competing wrestled to win or measure themselves against other talent. I only stated that wasn't completely true as Wauseon, did in fact, hold back a little when there was an opportunity to measure the top of their line up against some of the better wrestlers in that dual.
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  #40  
Old 02-12-18, 01:24 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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I will say that it is safe to assume that Wauseon would not be in favor lowering the wait time between matches if they were worried about tired kids after 1 match and a 2 hour wait between matches.
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  #41  
Old 02-12-18, 01:29 PM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
I never once gave an opinion on that decision. Someone stated that the teams that held back weren't involved in the matches yesterday and those that were competing wrestled to win or measure themselves against other talent. I only stated that wasn't completely true as Wauseon, did in fact, hold back a little when there was an opportunity to measure the top of their line up against some of the better wrestlers in that dual.
My comment on holding back was meant as a jab at a certain team that sent a "B" team to the regional finals.

Holding back during the tournament to win once you have the dual secured is a different matter. They were there to win and did what coach thought was best to achieve that goal. As a fan it would be nice to see those matches and if in the finals vs the semis maybe they happen.

I do not believe any team that was there did not come prepared to compete whether they had a realistic chance of winning or not.

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  #42  
Old 02-12-18, 04:37 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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SVSM vs. Hamilton Ross
There was an 11-point swing with the 182 match. As David Heath (SVSM) - a projected state finalist - was about to finish the takedown that would have secured the technical fall an (illegal) slam was called. Hamblin for Hamilton Ross could not continue.
At that point, the dual meet was 36-18 instead of 41-12. SVSM forfeited 195 and 220, then Hamilton Ross pinned at 285. Tied at 36-36, it went to criteria. Since there were no team point deductions and both teams won seven bouts, it came down to more "6 point" match victories (i.e. pins, forfeits, defaults, DQ's) and Hamilton Ross had more of those.

No team in yesterday's program threw out a lineup full of reserve types from the start of a match, which is what I presume another poster was asking about.

Forfeits of indifference, while not common in Ohio do happen in other states in team advancement settings (i.e. Illinois). You also see them at the Cadet/Junior Duals later in a tournament. In some ways, one could compare it to downing the ball at the end of the fourth quarter when having the lead.
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  #43  
Old 02-12-18, 04:39 PM
speedthatkills speedthatkills is offline
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[QUOTE=szerszen;6985430]Isn't the point to win the State Title?

Once they had the semi-final locked up, why would they needlessly make their kids tired for the Final?

That is just smart team wrestling![/QUOTE

Canfield was not a fan of the Wauseon forfeits at the end, I was sitting next to them. However, to illustrate your point, Mentor LC had their kids wrestle even though their dual was locked up and their HVY got hurt in the semis. I was always a fan of having them wrestle right up until I saw the kid get hurt and miss a chance to wrestle in the finals.
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  #44  
Old 02-12-18, 04:41 PM
Coach M.Lane Coach M.Lane is offline
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After watching the bottom half of the DII bracket, I think Canfield has a beef about the seeding process. But, they have a nice team and Iím sure they will be back. As far as what Wauseon did in the match, it was more about injury risk than being tired. It is (was) the right move. Not sure why the OHSAA does not draw a starting weight class for the duals. It adds that extra bit of dynamics to the match.
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  #45  
Old 02-12-18, 04:49 PM
speedthatkills speedthatkills is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach M.Lane View Post
After watching the bottom half of the DII bracket, I think Canfield has a beef about the seeding process. But, they have a nice team and Iím sure they will be back. As far as what Wauseon did in the match, it was more about injury risk than being tired. It is (was) the right move. Not sure why the OHSAA does not draw a starting weight class for the duals. It adds that extra bit of dynamics to the match.
Genuinely curious as to what their beef would be?
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  #46  
Old 02-12-18, 05:04 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach M.Lane View Post
After watching the bottom half of the DII bracket, I think Canfield has a beef about the seeding process. But, they have a nice team and Iím sure they will be back. As far as what Wauseon did in the match, it was more about injury risk than being tired. It is (was) the right move. Not sure why the OHSAA does not draw a starting weight class for the duals. It adds that extra bit of dynamics to the match.
I think they should draw a weight for the duals (PA and MI do). I agree it would add an extra dynamic to the matches.

For a team like Brecksville that is loaded down low, they were able to clinch the dual meet in the first eight matches against Massillon Perry. On the other hand for Canfield, who is loaded in the back five weight classes and solid at 152/160 as well, they're inherently always chasing matches at the end (especially against a Wauseon team whose strength is 113-160) ... they also were chasing the match against Louisville at the end, though they eventually caught up and won.
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  #47  
Old 02-13-18, 09:03 AM
Gardens35 Gardens35 is offline
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http://www.vindy.com/news/2018/feb/1...le-experience/

Article about Canfield...Youngstown Vindicator.
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  #48  
Old 02-13-18, 09:11 AM
Coach Root Coach Root is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
I think they should draw a weight for the duals (PA and MI do). I agree it would add an extra dynamic to the matches.

For a team like Brecksville that is loaded down low, they were able to clinch the dual meet in the first eight matches against Massillon Perry. On the other hand for Canfield, who is loaded in the back five weight classes and solid at 152/160 as well, they're inherently always chasing matches at the end (especially against a Wauseon team whose strength is 113-160) ... they also were chasing the match against Louisville at the end, though they eventually caught up and won.
Agreed. It does create a different dynamic. But it also moves the Ďpressureí around the lineup so the last match isnít always falling on the heavies.


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  #49  
Old 02-14-18, 01:54 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
On the other hand for Canfield, who is loaded in the back five weight classes and solid at 152/160 as well, they're inherently always chasing matches at the end (especially against a Wauseon team whose strength is 113-160) ... they also were chasing the match against Louisville at the end, though they eventually caught up and won.
In my opinion the result of the match would have been similar with or without the forefeits. Canfield probably would have won at all of the weights that were forfeited by Wauseon. It really would be a good idea moving forward to start at different weights each time. I think a lot of people who's sons wrestle in the upper weights have been disappointed when the match is forefeited when they drove all the way to Columbus or wherever to see him compete. I don't think it is fair to his parents and family and to the general spectator either.
A different possibility might be that they could make a rule to limit the forefeits somehow. Although I am not sure what the exact rule should be if they go that direction.



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