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  #421  
Old 05-16-17, 09:15 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinPista View Post
This was a new one to me I heard last night. I guess it is termed the "Gorilla Arm Balk". Where a pitcher has the ball in his pitching hand and it dangles. Any movement in the arm is considered a balk, even if it is before he is in the set position? The ump was great, did not call the balk, but told both coaches in between innings as both pitchers were doing it.

A) is this the correct interpretation and B) what can we tell our pitcher to fix it. Just let the arm hang and not move the ball? or rest his arm behind his back?
It moves, I call it.

One factor is also the level of baseball and pre-game meeting with the coaches about how strict balks are going to be called plays a role. Sounds like this umpire was doing some preventative umpiring.

As for fixing your pitcher, if this is something that he is used to doing, he needs to practice with it not moving or putting arm behind back. Just a little practice time. He will come across umpires at higher levels that will call it and you don't want that to happen in crucial situations.
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  #422  
Old 05-16-17, 10:01 AM
SinPista SinPista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
It moves, I call it.

One factor is also the level of baseball and pre-game meeting with the coaches about how strict balks are going to be called plays a role. Sounds like this umpire was doing some preventative umpiring.

As for fixing your pitcher, if this is something that he is used to doing, he needs to practice with it not moving or putting arm behind back. Just a little practice time. He will come across umpires at higher levels that will call it and you don't want that to happen in crucial situations.
14U, so it was a teaching moment. Follow up, could the pitcher have the ball in his glove and allow his arm to dangle and move? that way the ball is not moving?
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  #423  
Old 05-16-17, 10:16 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinPista View Post
14U, so it was a teaching moment. Follow up, could the pitcher have the ball in his glove and allow his arm to dangle and move? that way the ball is not moving?
Assuming that you are playing this game under NFHS rules, it does not matter whether or not the ball is in the pitcher's hand or in his glove. Any movement of the "gorilla arm" is an illegal act and should be penalized by calling a balk.

If the game is being played under Official Baseball Rules, the gorilla arm is legal, even if it swings.

Last edited by AllSports12; 05-16-17 at 10:47 AM.
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  #424  
Old 05-22-17, 10:12 AM
Gremlin35 Gremlin35 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
We've had several threads like this in the various forums and we have a certified umpire that is willing to answer questions about the rules of the game. Feel free to ask the questions in this thread.
Bases loaded 2 outs runner on 3rd steal on the pitch. Ball is hit to shortstop and hits the baserunner but runner on third has already crossed the plate. Does the run count?
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  #425  
Old 05-22-17, 06:40 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremlin35 View Post
Bases loaded 2 outs runner on 3rd steal on the pitch. Ball is hit to shortstop and hits the baserunner but runner on third has already crossed the plate. Does the run count?
I believe, the ball is dead immediately. The runner from second is out for interference. Runner from third is returned to third (if less than 2 outs. doesn't score if interference is 3rd out). Runner from first awarded second, and the batter-runner awarded first (If less than 2 outs).

If ruled that intentional contact was made, additional outs may be awarded to the defense (if less than 2 outs).

I have never seen this happen, but I know it can. This one made me think and I feel pretty good about what I said. I may be wrong though. We shall see.
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  #426  
Old 05-23-17, 10:54 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
I believe, the ball is dead immediately. The runner from second is out for interference. Runner from third is returned to third (if less than 2 outs. doesn't score if interference is 3rd out). Runner from first awarded second, and the batter-runner awarded first (If less than 2 outs).

If ruled that intentional contact was made, additional outs may be awarded to the defense (if less than 2 outs).

I have never seen this happen, but I know it can. This one made me think and I feel pretty good about what I said. I may be wrong though. We shall see.
Bugsy..... Take a look at rule 9-1 and then give your answer.....


EXCEPTION:

A run is not scored if the runner advances to home plate during action in
which the third out is made as follows:

a. by the batter-runner before he touches first base; or
b. by another runner being forced out; or
c. by a preceding runner who is declared out upon appeal because he failed to touch one of the bases or left a base too soon on a caught fly ball; or
d. when a third out is declared during a play resulting from a valid defensive appeal, which results in a force out (this out takes precedence if enforcement of it would negate a score); or
e. when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half inning, the defensive team may select the out which is to its advantage as in 2-20-2. Credit the putout to the nearest designated baseman.
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  #427  
Old 05-23-17, 12:25 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Bugsy..... Take a look at rule 9-1 and then give your answer.....


EXCEPTION:

A run is not scored if the runner advances to home plate during action in
which the third out is made as follows:

a. by the batter-runner before he touches first base; or
b. by another runner being forced out; or
c. by a preceding runner who is declared out upon appeal because he failed to touch one of the bases or left a base too soon on a caught fly ball; or
d. when a third out is declared during a play resulting from a valid defensive appeal, which results in a force out (this out takes precedence if enforcement of it would negate a score); or
e. when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half inning, the defensive team may select the out which is to its advantage as in 2-20-2. Credit the putout to the nearest designated baseman.
Is that then a "Timing" play?
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  #428  
Old 05-23-17, 02:00 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Is that then a "Timing" play?
Time of Interference vs Time of Pitch.......

When is each applied?
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  #429  
Old 05-29-17, 08:52 PM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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AllSports12,
Some confusion in our game tonight. If a team uses 4 different pitchers in a game, and wants to re-enter one of them in the 7th, which pitcher(s) can pitch? Nobody left game, only position changes.
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  #430  
Old 05-30-17, 11:10 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
AllSports12,
Some confusion in our game tonight. If a team uses 4 different pitchers in a game, and wants to re-enter one of them in the 7th, which pitcher(s) can pitch? Nobody left game, only position changes.
A pitcher can be removed and return to the mound once per inning, provided his replacement did not take more than 8 warm up pitches to get ready, or the charged conference (visit) exceeded the allotment provided for by the rules (3 free visits before a pitcher must be replaced).

This is covered under Rule 3-1-2
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  #431  
Old 05-30-17, 01:06 PM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
A pitcher can be removed and return to the mound once per inning, provided his replacement did not take more than 8 warm up pitches to get ready, or the charged conference (visit) exceeded the allotment provided for by the rules (3 free visits before a pitcher must be replaced).

This is covered under Rule 3-1-2
Gotcha. The reason I ask is several OHSAA umpires and even varsity head coaches believe that only the starting pitcher may re-enter as pitcher. So what you're saying is any pitcher can re-enter later in the game? Just want to make sure, because I am not totally sure of the rule, either. Thanks.
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  #432  
Old 05-30-17, 08:27 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
Gotcha. The reason I ask is several OHSAA umpires and even varsity head coaches believe that only the starting pitcher may re-enter as pitcher. So what you're saying is any pitcher can re-enter later in the game? Just want to make sure, because I am not totally sure of the rule, either. Thanks.
"Re-enter" is a term used for starters. When a starter leaves the game, he may re-enter the game once......

Returning to pitch would be the appropriate terminology to use. That's where you apply 3-1-2.
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  #433  
Old 06-11-17, 07:47 PM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Run down between second and third. As runner is going towards third, he doesn't take a direct line to the base. I would say a slight angle into a fielder. Obstruction?
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  #434  
Old 06-11-17, 08:20 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Run down between second and third. As runner is going towards third, he doesn't take a direct line to the base. I would say a slight angle into a fielder. Obstruction?
As described, no. The fielder didn't do anything to alter the runner's path, the runner did it on his own.

HTBT (had to be there)
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  #435  
Old 06-12-17, 09:55 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
As described, no. The fielder didn't do anything to alter the runner's path, the runner did it on his own.

HTBT (had to be there)
Thanks. Thats's what I had. Coach didn't like it, but when he is yelling from the 3rd base coaching box at his player to run into a fielder, the kid listened and to me forced the contact. It wasn't malicious, but he reached out with his shoulder/elbow and contact happened.
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  #436  
Old 06-12-17, 01:54 PM
a_td a_td is offline
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Bases loaded, 1 out. Deep fly ball hit to CF. Runner on second holds the bag to tag up. Runner on first doesn't tag and touches second and runs past the runner tagging on second. CF catches the ball. Runner on third tags and scores. Runner from first was called out for running past runner on second. Does the run still score from third on the tag up?
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  #437  
Old 06-12-17, 04:36 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by a_td View Post
Bases loaded, 1 out. Deep fly ball hit to CF. Runner on second holds the bag to tag up. Runner on first doesn't tag and touches second and runs past the runner tagging on second. CF catches the ball. Runner on third tags and scores. Runner from first was called out for running past runner on second. Does the run still score from third on the tag up?
No

Runner from first is out immediately once he passes the runner in front of him, making that the second out of the inning. When F8 makes the catch of the deep fly ball, that becomes the third out of the inning.
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  #438  
Old 06-15-17, 10:14 AM
Bugsy8875 Bugsy8875 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Run down between second and third. As runner is going towards third, he doesn't take a direct line to the base. I would say a slight angle into a fielder. Obstruction?
Adding to this question. The runner in a rundown gets the base he was heading towards when the obstruction happened?
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  #439  
Old 06-15-17, 11:45 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bugsy8875 View Post
Adding to this question. The runner in a rundown gets the base he was heading towards when the obstruction happened?
No.

He is awarded a minimum of one base from the base he legally occupied at the time of the obstruction.

The easiest way to explain this is as follows....

Runner on first. Pitcher turns and throws to F3 in an attempt to pick said runner off. Prior to F3 receiving the throw he blocks the base, giving the runner no access to the base. F3 is guilty of obstruction and even though the runner was heading back to first base, he is awarded 2nd base because of the obstruction.

Same applies during a rundown.
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  #440  
Old 06-18-17, 12:00 PM
KniteFlyer KniteFlyer is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
No.

He is awarded a minimum of one base from the base he legally occupied at the time of the obstruction.

The easiest way to explain this is as follows....

Runner on first. Pitcher turns and throws to F3 in an attempt to pick said runner off. Prior to F3 receiving the throw he blocks the base, giving the runner no access to the base. F3 is guilty of obstruction and even though the runner was heading back to first base, he is awarded 2nd base because of the obstruction.

Same applies during a rundown.
Is this portion of the rule a "baseball only" rule? I ask, because, this is not the same in NFHS softball.
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  #441  
Old 06-18-17, 04:58 PM
FletchMacFletch FletchMacFletch is offline
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Bottom half of last inning, tie score. Bases loaded, one out. Pop up to first base side. Ump yells "infield fly/batter's out". First baseman lets the ball drop (not on purpose) and the ball lands between home & first and rolls foul. Ump yells "Foul ball!". Both teams stop playing. Third base coach yells for runner on third to score. Runner touches home, ump allows the run, game over. What's the correct call?
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  #442  
Old 06-18-17, 07:43 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by KniteFlyer View Post
Is this portion of the rule a "baseball only" rule? I ask, because, this is not the same in NFHS softball.
I cannot answer that as I have never worked softball
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  #443  
Old 06-18-17, 08:19 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FletchMacFletch View Post
Bottom half of last inning, tie score. Bases loaded, one out. Pop up to first base side. Ump yells "infield fly/batter's out". First baseman lets the ball drop (not on purpose) and the ball lands between home & first and rolls foul. Ump yells "Foul ball!". Both teams stop playing. Third base coach yells for runner on third to score. Runner touches home, ump allows the run, game over. What's the correct call?
The infield fly rule is only in effect "if fair". As an umpire, on something that could go either fair or foul, I will yell "infield fly if fair". In the given scenario, if the ball drops and ends up foul, it is a FOUL BALL - which would mean we still have bases loaded with one out and the new count as appropriate and no runs score.
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  #444  
Old 06-18-17, 08:22 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KniteFlyer View Post
Is this portion of the rule a "baseball only" rule? I ask, because, this is not the same in NFHS softball.
You are correct about that. On an obstruction call in NFHS softball, the base-runner is protected to the base she was going toward at the time of the obstruction (which is to say she will be awarded said base should she otherwise be out, or if she achieves the base in the direction she was running, the obstruction is no longer in effect).
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  #445  
Old 06-19-17, 05:52 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FletchMacFletch View Post
Bottom half of last inning, tie score. Bases loaded, one out. Pop up to first base side. Ump yells "infield fly/batter's out". First baseman lets the ball drop (not on purpose) and the ball lands between home & first and rolls foul. Ump yells "Foul ball!". Both teams stop playing. Third base coach yells for runner on third to score. Runner touches home, ump allows the run, game over. What's the correct call?
That sounds like a whole lot of messed up right there.

Not sure how the ump could allow the run to score on the foul ball.

Please elaborate or was this just an epic failure on his part?


I rarely heard an umpire ever say "If Fair". It was always implied, of course. Matter of fact, the only time I ever recall hearing it was from an ump, a hometown one by the way that we hated to see when we showed up there (not because he was a homer, he was just a bad umpire both ways) and he bellowed out "IF FAIR" on a foul ball that landed well, well out of play!
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  #446  
Old 06-19-17, 08:33 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FletchMacFletch View Post
Bottom half of last inning, tie score. Bases loaded, one out. Pop up to first base side. Ump yells "infield fly/batter's out". First baseman lets the ball drop (not on purpose) and the ball lands between home & first and rolls foul. Ump yells "Foul ball!". Both teams stop playing. Third base coach yells for runner on third to score. Runner touches home, ump allows the run, game over. What's the correct call?
If this game is being played using NFHS rules, the declaration of "Foul Ball" makes the ball dead immediately and the ball is foul.

Nothing can change this declaration, right or wrong, in this situation. It's a foul ball, period.
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  #447  
Old 06-21-17, 07:29 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Is it ever an accepted mechanic for a plate umpire to rest his hand on the catcher's back while a pitch is being delivered?
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  #448  
Old 06-21-17, 10:24 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
Is it ever an accepted mechanic for a plate umpire to rest his hand on the catcher's back while a pitch is being delivered?
It's not taught, but it occasionally happens. When this happens, it's usually at the higher (college, pro ball) levels.
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  #449  
Old 06-21-17, 10:43 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Thanks. I saw it tonight at an ACME (summer high school league) game. Just seems that it would be terribly uncomfortable for the catcher.
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  #450  
Old 06-22-17, 06:07 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
Thanks. I saw it tonight at an ACME (summer high school league) game. Just seems that it would be terribly uncomfortable for the catcher.
This is the classic "I saw a pro do it, so I'm gonna do it"

If a catcher or coach says "stop", then the umpire should stop..... (he shouldn't employ the method in the first place -- my opinion)
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