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  #61  
Old 10-20-17, 12:37 PM
JerryBaldwin JerryBaldwin is offline
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A bigger point here is that kids enjoy racing. Taking multiple weeks off (which may or may not increase your chances of winning, qualifying, etc.), sacrifices the fact that a season is a journey to be enjoyed, not just a destination to be strived for. I think Rod O'donnell has spoken about this.
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  #62  
Old 10-20-17, 01:17 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBaldwin View Post
A bigger point here is that kids enjoy racing. Taking multiple weeks off (which may or may not increase your chances of winning, qualifying, etc.), sacrifices the fact that a season is a journey to be enjoyed, not just a destination to be strived for. I think Rod O'donnell has spoken about this.
I don't disagree with those sentiments at all. But there are always two sides to a coin. During one of the weeks we take off only the top 5-7 sit out. They are required to attend the meet, help take splits, encourage their teammates, etc. It's then always fun to use that as a time to sit down with those kids and ask them what they saw that could make them a better racer. How did the race unfold? What did you notice that may have helped or hindered certain racers? etc. This gets them thinking and allows them to look at a race more objectively than if they are being asked to consider their own performance.

During the other week we take off we don't have a race at all. We often schedule an aerobic threshold/tempo type of run on that Saturday morning and run somewhere we typically don't get a chance to run all that often. The kids also really enjoy that.

I'm not saying they enjoy those things more than racing, but it's all part of building a holistic team and plays into the culture of the team. Every team builds their culture differently and approaches the season slightly differently. Some teams may choose to race every single weekend and I think that can work for them. Some teams choose to take a weekend or two off and I think that can work for them. There are certain parameters that I think the construct of a season should fit inside, for instance toeing the line with your best at the conference meet.
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  #63  
Old 10-20-17, 01:20 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBaldwin View Post
A bigger point here is that kids enjoy racing. Taking multiple weeks off (which may or may not increase your chances of winning, qualifying, etc.), sacrifices the fact that a season is a journey to be enjoyed, not just a destination to be strived for. I think Rod O'donnell has spoken about this.
Are you kidding me? CC609 and I have like 5300 posts combined and you have the nerve to make your first one better than anything we have ever posted? Just piles on more proof that I've wasted my life.
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  #64  
Old 10-20-17, 03:43 PM
SLS SLS is offline
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I coached for over 20 years in the GCL-GGCL. It was always a big deal to do your best at the league meet. Our AD also like the idea that we gained big points toward the league All Sports Trophy in our most successful years.

Rapid Run was a short, but challenging course, and if it was wet, there was a very real risk of injury. I remember only once when a team "tanked" the varsity race.They did so in order that they could win the JV race, thus preventing another school from sweeping the league meet. Once brooms were brought out when a team swept varsity, jv, and freshmen races. Lots of rivalry and occasionally animosity.
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  #65  
Old 10-20-17, 08:32 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Are you kidding me? CC609 and I have like 5300 posts combined and you have the nerve to make your first one better than anything we have ever posted? Just piles on more proof that I've wasted my life.
Haha.
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  #66  
Old 10-31-17, 07:23 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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http://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/10/...nference-meet/
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  #67  
Old 10-31-17, 07:53 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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From the Article; ďI think sometimes we get a little too cute in terms of, Oh, we can only run two races a year or whatever. I mean, thereís no reason why an early-season meet like Dellinger canít serve as a great training stimulus early on and you canít run your guys. Theyíve trained hard, theyíve put in huge volume over the summertime. Running an 8k where they just know, okay this isnít the end of the world sort of thing but weíre gonna do a hard workout on Monday and let you run hard on Friday ó [the race serves as] a second hard training run of the week and weíll do a long run ó thereís no reason why you canít do that.

ďI think we overthink it sometimes. Letís let the guys have some fun out there. And I think it would be better for our sport if we did that so it wasnít always just one meet or two meets at the end of the year."

I agree with the article.
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  #68  
Old 11-01-17, 05:42 AM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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I agree with those points, psycho_dad. A couple more lines from the article that resonated with me and/or were brought up in this discussion a couple weeks ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Gault View Post
Sure, some teams may not peak for conference or may hold out a guy who is banged up to give him extra time to get ready for nationals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Gault View Post
And what about the athletes? Do you think it’s any fun to train all summer and fall and barely ever get the chance to race?
As the author alludes to, Michigan seemed pretty pumped to win both the men's and women's titles this past weekend. The video of them celebrating (embedded in the article) is pretty cool.
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  #69  
Old 11-01-17, 06:14 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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You have to race at least 5 times at a certain distances to peak at that distance. The only thing that college is doing correct is early season race variance.
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  #70  
Old 11-01-17, 09:25 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
You have to race at least 5 times at a certain distances to peak at that distance. The only thing that college is doing correct is early season race variance.
So you think the men should run 5 races of 10k distance at the collegiate level?
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  #71  
Old 11-01-17, 09:40 AM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
So you think the men should run 5 races of 10k distance at the collegiate level?
I get your point, but that might be splitting hairs a bit: the 8k and 10k distance are likely similar enough that a smattering of both 8k and 10k races can be used in preparation for their "peak."
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  #72  
Old 11-01-17, 09:43 AM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
So you think the men should run 5 races of 10k distance at the collegiate level?
Why not? You need a week for full recovery (day per mile) so you wouldn't want to do it any more frequently than every 3 weeks to get some training in between, but why not?

Where is the data to show it is harmful?
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  #73  
Old 11-01-17, 10:22 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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It just seems to me that unless you are hurt in HS, you run. If you aren't going to take a league championship home, you better win the state meet. That is not happening. Being too cute and I can't believe an AD would allow it.
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  #74  
Old 11-01-17, 10:51 AM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
You have to race at least 5 times at a certain distances to peak at that distance.
What book did you read that from, Jack Daniels?
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  #75  
Old 11-01-17, 10:51 AM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
It just seems to me that unless you are hurt in HS, you run. If you aren't going to take a league championship home, you better win the state meet. That is not happening. Being too cute and I can't believe an AD would allow it.
I have a conference trophy in my closet that we rescued from a dumpster. A previous AD told an outgoing coach to dispose of any trophies in his possession because there was no room in the trophy case. This was after the cross country team had given him two state champion trophies and a runner-up.
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  #76  
Old 11-01-17, 11:32 AM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
It just seems to me that unless you are hurt in HS, you run. If you aren't going to take a league championship home, you better win the state meet. That is not happening. Being too cute and I can't believe an AD would allow it.
I'm not disagreeing with the point, but I must ask how many ADs would even know if an XC coach didn't race his or her best runners unless they've attended a few meets to identify who the team's best runners are?
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  #77  
Old 11-01-17, 12:26 PM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
I'm not disagreeing with the point, but I must ask how many ADs would even know if an XC coach didn't race his or her best runners unless they've attended a few meets to identify who the team's best runners are?
Yeah, I'm not sure many AD's even know what CC really is. They probably only pay attention if there is a problem.
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  #78  
Old 11-01-17, 04:42 PM
Eye89 Eye89 is offline
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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
You have to race at least 5 times at a certain distances to peak at that distance. The only thing that college is doing correct is early season race variance.


Heard Joe Vigil use the number 7 a couple decades ago. Of course, itís not an exact science, but the idea of 3 being too little and 16 too much has merit.


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  #79  
Old 11-01-17, 07:11 PM
bgtri11 bgtri11 is offline
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Physco_dad is 100% right on this issue. Racing is what makes the sport fun. I was a soccer, basketball, baseball kid all the way through 8th grade. Ended up running cross country freshman year to just get in shape for basketball, and eventually running became my sport. As a coach I love to get kids out who were competitive athletes in other sports (nothing against kids who run in grade school/junior high---I want those kids too). Those kids who grew up playing other sports (and were really good at them) love to compete, and taking that a way is a disservice and doesn't help promote our sport. I think all kids in general would much rather race than do a workout. And no matter what you can't replace the mental aspect of racing with a workout.
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  #80  
Old 11-09-17, 03:37 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Do not see where teams that did not run to win conferences or that just held kids out over the season for no other reason than rest, did as good as teams that raced hard all season and tried at their conference meets. Am I wrong?
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  #81  
Old 11-09-17, 08:06 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye89 View Post
Heard Joe Vigil use the number 7 a couple decades ago. Of course, itís not an exact science, but the idea of 3 being too little and 16 too much has merit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Daniels suggests 5 races at specific distance and 2 under snd 2 races over the primary distance.
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  #82  
Old 11-09-17, 09:24 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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cc609; So, 9 races. Does that take into consideration a HS kid that is being trained at their optimal for their ability? Is there any consideration for kids that are not elite and maybe are being undertrained for their actual ability? Is there a number of days between races that is optimal. Is there an optimal time to run the two short races and the two long races in the schedule? How much longer and shorter should the races be? Is it better to error on a few less races or a few more races than that 9?
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