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  #31  
Old 11-12-17, 10:25 AM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post

Why can't a BGSU, OHIO or Toledo reinstate men's track and field and use all the Scholarships for CC type kids and build a top notch distance squad that can compete at a national level? Who cares about OSU? Why OSU? Why not a MAC school?
The best way for one of those schools to start that plan would be building a first class permanent course and convince OHSAA to hold the state meet there.
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  #32  
Old 11-12-17, 12:23 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
The best way for one of those schools to start that plan would be building a first class permanent course and convince OHSAA to hold the state meet there.
Remember Title 9 not only helped women be awesome and help them with opportunity.

Title 9 was the #1 disparity situation that formed mid-majors.

Before Title 9 and it's changes in the 1980's and 1990's HURT regular schools like BGSU, OU, Toledo, Akron and Kent State were able to compete with the BIG State schools. BGSU, OU, WMU and EMU were national powers back in the day...

Title 9 made this disparity. Not only with the major sports but more importantly with the Olympic sports. It gave AD's an excuse to cut money from men's Olympic sports and divert that $$$ to football and basketball programs.

Track and Field was hit hard, but wrestling the hardest. Tennis, golf, gymnastics and swimming were also hurt a lot due to these rogue AD's trying to move up from mid major state/directional schools to major state schools.

I also believe there is a cap on scholarships for XC only schools. I believe schools like the MAC schools, UD, Wright State etc. only can give 3 men's scholarships at MAX unless otherwise noted in some conferences and then it could be less. Remember the NCAA limit to scholarship is only the limit. Most schools and conferences put their own cap limits on scholarships that are far less than the NCAA. The only sports that this is NOT possible are basketball and football. Most schools do this in order to be compliant to title 9. I could be wrong, but that is from the horses pooper.
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  #33  
Old 11-12-17, 02:51 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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The cutting of men's sports teams is largely a matter of losing money on football, and to a lesser extent basketball. Those sports are more expensive, even after considering revenues, than any other sports. As I showed in my previous post, participation opportunities are not down for men since the passage of title 9. The ESPN article I posted below explains the role of the NCAA's rules in the making of the current economic situation. (Of particular note is rate of NCAA scholarships to high school participants.)


http://www.espn.com/espnw/title-ix/a...emy-men-sports

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.51e60945bf96
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  #34  
Old 11-12-17, 09:16 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
The best way for one of those schools to start that plan would be building a first class permanent course and convince OHSAA to hold the state meet there.
BGSU is one of the places I've thought could have a state meet. If parking can handle the crowd for a Football game, it should be able to handle the state CC meet. The golf course makes a real nice CC course. Restrooms and concessions at the stadium. Plenty of open space to make a nice course. Stadium type seating would have to be looked at, but something could be done. The problem with BG is that it is WINDY and miserable in the Fall and Winter and Spring. As far as a place to train for CC and Track for a college, it's not bad at all. Not sure what a dedicated CC course would help there.
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  #35  
Old 11-12-17, 09:25 PM
madman madman is offline
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30-40 years ago it seems like many, if not most, high school XC courses were on golf courses. I can't think of a single one on a golf course now. Most courses aren't willing to close up shop and subject themselves to the wear and tear of a cross country meet, especially if there is the possbility of it being muddy.

I would be very surprised if BG or any other university would open their university course for such a massacre today.
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  #36  
Old 11-12-17, 10:27 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
The golf course makes a real nice CC course.
This statement is categorically false for every golf course. And the BG course is not the exception. It epitomizes the rule.
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  #37  
Old 11-12-17, 10:30 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Yeah, First week of November, The course has the entire Winter to heal. BG could do it where not much is on the fairways from what I remember. Toledo held the Great Lakes Regional at the Golf Course a few years ago. No problem. I'm sure any rent could take care of the wear and tear. Location Location Location.

Other wise, have to look at an old landfill, farmland.

My point was that BG really didn't need a dedicated CC course to attract CC runners there. A good place to train is not a problem. Garbage weather is!
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  #38  
Old 11-12-17, 10:38 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Originally Posted by Altor View Post
This statement is categorically false for every golf course. And the BG course is not the exception. It epitomizes the rule.
Absolutely not true.

The one in Toledo is very good. The one they used at Oakland in Michigan was real nice. There are a bunch here in the Akron area that have big hills an layout great for a CC course. The one at Kent was good for the MAC last year.

BG could put a course together that would be much better than the current state course. Won't happen, but it would be a better course.
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  #39  
Old 11-12-17, 11:45 PM
madman madman is offline
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For years the State of Michigan held it's State Meet for each division on different golf courses. Most of the time spectators were restricted to areas near the start, parking lot, & club house. You would see the runners the first 200-400 meters and the last 200-400 meters and then watch them with binoculars the rest of the time.

Even if you designed a course where athletes would run between fairways, spectators tend to run across fairways, greens, etc. I don't see any golf course opening itself up even in November. Many of them are open year round.

I do find it stunning in this day and age that no university in Ohio has a viable CC course that could be used for the State Meet.

It pains me to say it, but I almost miss Scioto Downs.

If the race continues to be at NTR, they really need to open the course up to spectators. As a coach, I like having the freedom of movement and the ability to clearly see what's happening by being on the drag strip and out in the North field, but practically speaking if I've done my job right, I am done when the gun goes off. I would give up this exclusivity to give fans a much better experience.
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  #40  
Old 11-14-17, 11:33 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
BGSU is one of the places I've thought could have a state meet. If parking can handle the crowd for a Football game, it should be able to handle the state CC meet. The golf course makes a real nice CC course. Restrooms and concessions at the stadium. Plenty of open space to make a nice course. Stadium type seating would have to be looked at, but something could be done. The problem with BG is that it is WINDY and miserable in the Fall and Winter and Spring. As far as a place to train for CC and Track for a college, it's not bad at all. Not sure what a dedicated CC course would help there.
I was told that the BG golf course is closing down this year. Like many golf courses around the country, the course cannot be financially stable.

Will the course be used as construction, expansion or sold off from the university as real estate to make $$$$$?????

This would change the XC dramatically.

Last edited by EuclidandViren; 11-14-17 at 02:24 PM..
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  #41  
Old 11-14-17, 01:10 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
I was told that the BG golf course is closing down this year. Like many golf courses around the country, the course cannot be financially stable.

Will the course be used as construction, expansion or sold off from the university as real estate to make $$$$$.

This would change the XC dramatically.
Interesting. I remember racing that course in college I believe they made you go up the hill by I75 4 times for the 10k but the girls 5k course never went up it even once.
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  #42  
Old 11-14-17, 03:01 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
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Originally Posted by madman View Post
As a coach, I like having the freedom of movement and the ability to clearly see what's happening by being on the drag strip and out in the North field...
They wouldn't even let me go back in the north field this year as a coach.
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  #43  
Old 11-14-17, 04:33 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I'm thinking the closing of the golf course would hurt the golf teams more than the CC program. If they could turn that land into intramural fields with a soccer complex, it could turn into an even better CC course location. That's the type of thing that is needed. I think Mel Brodt loved that course as much for playing golf on as he did running CC on. He could golf. To put a good CC course on that location would only require the a bit back by the highway where the lake and hill is. maybe 1/3 or less of the golf course. if they use the fields next to the stadium as well. Could be a great place.
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  #44  
Old 11-15-17, 11:48 AM
yj_runfan yj_runfan is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
I'm thinking the closing of the golf course would hurt the golf teams more than the CC program. If they could turn that land into intramural fields with a soccer complex, it could turn into an even better CC course location. That's the type of thing that is needed. I think Mel Brodt loved that course as much for playing golf on as he did running CC on. He could golf. To put a good CC course on that location would only require the a bit back by the highway where the lake and hill is. maybe 1/3 or less of the golf course. if they use the fields next to the stadium as well. Could be a great place.
When I was at the IU course in Bloomington I heard the golf team used it for practices and shared the upkeep with the CC team.
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  #45  
Old 11-15-17, 02:32 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Originally Posted by yj_runfan View Post
When I was at the IU course in Bloomington I heard the golf team used it for practices and shared the upkeep with the CC team.
Yeah, the way I see a first class facility getting done is a combination complex that may have a soccer complex, golf course. CC etc....
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