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  #1  
Old 09-27-17, 11:07 AM
soccer21stcentury soccer21stcentury is offline
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What’s Your Player Worth? Scholarship Stats by State

http://www.scholarshipstats.com/soccer.html
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  #2  
Old 09-27-17, 11:14 AM
2731 2731 is offline
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Originally Posted by soccer21stcentury View Post
That is a great page. Lots of resource and hard truths there.
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  #3  
Old 09-27-17, 12:06 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Great info. Bottom-line- never consider club soccer as a financial investment. It may be a great life investment.

HBO SPORTS did a great segment on YOUTH SPORTS

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  #4  
Old 09-27-17, 03:26 PM
Gameday10 Gameday10 is offline
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I think that link is great information for people to read. However no one will pay attention to it. Parents today all think johnny or missy are going to play D1 because, well my kids is just better attitude. The one thing I have noticed more and more is the entitlement of kids and parent today that think they will play in college. Just because you play a sport doesn't mean you will get recruited. I wish people understood that more than they actually do.

If you do become the select few it is hard, hard work to juggle sport and school.
Crazy hard....
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  #5  
Old 09-28-17, 08:35 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by soccer21stcentury View Post
Whats surprising to me is the numbers for foreign players.

If you look at a lot of rosters of college teams, it would make you think the numbers would be closer to 40%.

Perhaps the schools are finding other ways to get those kids rather than athletic scholarships?
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  #6  
Old 09-28-17, 08:39 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by Gameday10 View Post
I think that link is great information for people to read. However no one will pay attention to it. Parents today all think johnny or missy are going to play D1 because, well my kids is just better attitude. The one thing I have noticed more and more is the entitlement of kids and parent today that think they will play in college. Just because you play a sport doesn't mean you will get recruited. I wish people understood that more than they actually do.

If you do become the select few it is hard, hard work to juggle sport and school.
Crazy hard....
When i was at Akron's ID camp last year the coaches there made it pretty clear

if you just play HS you have no chance at anything

if you play HS and club, you have very, very little chance at D1..... maybe you will have luck at a D3

if you play academy you might at least get seen

a lot of souls were crushed in that room.

one poor mom was flat out shocked and offended
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  #7  
Old 09-28-17, 01:11 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
When i was at Akron's ID camp last year the coaches there made it pretty clear

if you just play HS you have no chance at anything

if you play HS and club, you have very, very little chance at D1..... maybe you will have luck at a D3

if you play academy you might at least get seen

a lot of souls were crushed in that room.

one poor mom was flat out shocked and offended
There is a lot of this that is just untrue. It might play a role at certain programs/institutions, but not at DI as a whole.

It's not hard to look at numerous DI rosters to see that kids are playing HS and club. Very few don't play club because club is everywhere. It's also easy to see that all divisions have "academy" players on the rosters too.

The gap in "academy" is pretty large too.
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  #8  
Old 09-28-17, 02:43 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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...or perhaps the Internationals are just a whole lot better. I can recruit a kid from Nottingham Forest who finished school in England at age 16 and has been training professionally ever since. At age 18 his contract is not renewed at Forest and wallah, he finds his way to Xavier University.

Derrick Otim Xavier U.
http://www.detcityfc.com/news_articl...e-derrick-otim

Same thing happening at all the top soccer academies in the world.
As Derrick stated, "Plan B" go to America and get an education.
I didn't say they weren't, did I?

My point is, those numbers in that article appear to be quite misleading. When you browse D1 soccer rosters the overseas folks seem to be close to half the roster. Sometimes even at D2s and D3s.

I assume you would agree?

Also, in the ID camps I've been to and other events I've never heard any coach mention the competition from overseas.

Not saying I blame them. I'd absolutely do it! The way they handle sports overseas is still light years ahead of where we are in the states. Those kids form the Nottingham Forests of the world have hundreds and hundreds more hours of training and probably millions more touches. They are a far more polished product.

It makes you wonder why we don't have more and more fulltime sports academies in the states. With as much as some parents are spending on travel sports, you'd think MLS or anyone else opening and funding full time academies would be a snap.
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  #9  
Old 09-28-17, 03:13 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Based on my experiences the greatest concentration of foreign players have been at the NAIA schools.

I don't pay too much attention to D1 rosters to be honest because A) my kids don't want to get over extended between soccer and their schooling which is pretty tough in itself and B) they aren't D1 talent anyway (maybe a low-end program). Our focus has been on D2, NAIA, and D3.
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  #10  
Old 09-28-17, 03:47 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
There is a lot of this that is just untrue. It might play a role at certain programs/institutions, but not at DI as a whole.

It's not hard to look at numerous DI rosters to see that kids are playing HS and club. Very few don't play club because club is everywhere. It's also easy to see that all divisions have "academy" players on the rosters too.

The gap in "academy" is pretty large too.
Maybe, maybe not.

I just looked at some local and nationally ranked teams rosters. Here's the number of foreign players:

Xavier 9
Akron 14
Pitt 6
Cleveland State 9
Stanford 0
Virginia 11
Clemson 10
Wake Forest 5
North Carolina 6
Maryland 6

Of roughly 300 players, 76 are from outside the US. That's pretty close to 25%.

Again, that's a lot higher than the 5% in the report. Makes me wonder again where those numbers came from.
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  #11  
Old 09-28-17, 04:03 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Maybe, maybe not.

I just looked at some local and nationally ranked teams rosters. Here's the number of foreign players:

Xavier 9
Akron 14
Pitt 6
Cleveland State 9
Stanford 0
Virginia 11
Clemson 10
Wake Forest 5
North Carolina 6
Maryland 6

Of roughly 300 players, 76 are from outside the US. That's pretty close to 25%.

Again, that's a lot higher than the 5% in the report. Makes me wonder again where those numbers came from.
You only looked at 5% of the d1 teams. Probably need a larger sample size and be sure to look at some of the lower tier schools too.
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  #12  
Old 09-28-17, 04:19 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
You only looked at 5% of the d1 teams. Probably need a larger sample size and be sure to look at some of the lower tier schools too.
Plus Akron has its own business model...throws off the stats a bit.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-17, 04:46 PM
SportsObserver513 SportsObserver513 is offline
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Lots of good info here. Though I'd challenge you to look at the 99 CUP Gold team from last year and count the amount of D1 players. It's possible to play high school and club and get a D1 scholarship. Kids playing now that are going D1: Ben Wendell, Matt Fickenworth, Linden Eberle, Diego, Will from Moeller, The center back from St. X. It's not a lost cause. But you better be a stud.
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  #14  
Old 09-28-17, 04:47 PM
SportsObserver513 SportsObserver513 is offline
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Originally Posted by sebbyb View Post
NKU. 11 of 23 Internationals. Not a single kid from Cincinnati or NKY.
UD also very high %.

http://www.nkunorse.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc

The European BB leagues only allow 2 Americans per team, hmmmm.
NKU coach completely trashed the roster and added these international players. Cut tons of local players. It is a total shame.
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  #15  
Old 09-29-17, 07:49 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
You only looked at 5% of the d1 teams. Probably need a larger sample size and be sure to look at some of the lower tier schools too.
Maybe.

I went with 4 somewhat local schools I knew that played (akron, pitt, CSU and Xavier) then went by national rankings for the rest.

here's a few more

totally random

Vermont 11
Temple 10
radford 14
james madison 12
Belmont 8
northern illinois 6
university of san diego 14

sorry, but you'll have to point me towards some schools that somehow get this number down to 5%

also, i do wonder if schools aren't finding other scholarship avenues to get all these international kids in to fill their soccer rosters.

Last edited by EastYoungstown; 09-29-17 at 07:59 AM..
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  #16  
Old 09-29-17, 07:49 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by sebbyb View Post
NKU. 11 of 23 Internationals. Not a single kid from Cincinnati or NKY.
UD also very high %.

http://www.nkunorse.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc

The European BB leagues only allow 2 Americans per team, hmmmm.
That seems to be far more the norm.

Especially when you can just cut kids and pull their scholarships.

Last edited by EastYoungstown; 09-29-17 at 08:00 AM..
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  #17  
Old 09-29-17, 08:30 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Give Stu a break here. He got hired at NKU in January. Inherited a team that had 1-win in 2016. An overhaul was surely going to happen. At Buffalo in 2016, he had 12 internationals: 2 from New Zealand (where Stu is from), 1 from Sweden, and 9 from Canada (surely allowable for a school on the border right?). There were 10 Americans on the roster, with only 1 (Oklahoma) coming from an area that's not "regional" for UB (New York and Michigan were other states). I'd say that's a decent job of staying in regional recruiting area.

As far as international breakdown across divisions, it probably has stayed pretty steady through the years. Division II is pretty high as well, in the 2016 DII National Championship there was only 1 American on the field (Wingate v. Charleston). Charleston didn't even have a single American on their roster at the semi-final and final (maybe a backup GK?). Wingate's starting RB was the lone American.

We also do not know the impact of the internationals on scholarships and/or playing time. Since I've seen Xavier numerous times, I can say they have 3 internationals that play all the time (Hestnes - first year transferred from LIU-Brooklyn, Otim, and Brown). A fourth (Hansford) has been a sub. Any others see minimal minutes.

Big schools do possess the ability to offer other monies for international students. It truly does make a difference in the ability to have them on the roster. Always nice to get other impact money that doesn't hurt the athletic scholarships.
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  #18  
Old 09-29-17, 08:42 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
Give Stu a break here. He got hired at NKU in January. Inherited a team that had 1-win in 2016. An overhaul was surely going to happen. At Buffalo in 2016, he had 12 internationals: 2 from New Zealand (where Stu is from), 1 from Sweden, and 9 from Canada (surely allowable for a school on the border right?). There were 10 Americans on the roster, with only 1 (Oklahoma) coming from an area that's not "regional" for UB (New York and Michigan were other states). I'd say that's a decent job of staying in regional recruiting area.

As far as international breakdown across divisions, it probably has stayed pretty steady through the years. Division II is pretty high as well, in the 2016 DII National Championship there was only 1 American on the field (Wingate v. Charleston). Charleston didn't even have a single American on their roster at the semi-final and final (maybe a backup GK?). Wingate's starting RB was the lone American.

We also do not know the impact of the internationals on scholarships and/or playing time. Since I've seen Xavier numerous times, I can say they have 3 internationals that play all the time (Hestnes - first year transferred from LIU-Brooklyn, Otim, and Brown). A fourth (Hansford) has been a sub. Any others see minimal minutes.

Big schools do possess the ability to offer other monies for international students. It truly does make a difference in the ability to have them on the roster. Always nice to get other impact money that doesn't hurt the athletic scholarships.
If you look across the board, not just in soccer or sports in general, enrollment of international students has steadily grown here in the US.

There was a fear in higher ed this summer that Trumps election would effect this, but that hasn't been the case. Many schools actually saw a spike in International enrollment this fall.
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  #19  
Old 09-29-17, 08:57 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Maybe.

I went with 4 somewhat local schools I knew that played (akron, pitt, CSU and Xavier) then went by national rankings for the rest.

here's a few more

totally random

Vermont 11
Temple 10
radford 14
james madison 12
Belmont 8
northern illinois 6
university of san diego 14

sorry, but you'll have to point me towards some schools that somehow get this number down to 5%

also, i do wonder if schools aren't finding other scholarship avenues to get all these international kids in to fill their soccer rosters.
yea, I don't know which schools to look at to help get the number down.

Schools could also be using other scholarship avenues to get their domestic kids there too. Good grades and test scores help a lot too. Especially at the private universities. The reality is the schools have many combinations available to them to help reduce tuition for their players. With only 9.9 full rides available as a max (not all schools are fully funded) they have to find other avenues to get them money.

I know an NAIA school told my son last year that because of his grades and test scores he would be able to get him more money (above and beyond what he was already offered when he applied) and it wouldn't count against his (the coaches) athletic scholarships. He didn't go there so we never found out what that would have been. Turns out that school's recruiting class for this fall had 8 of the 13 players from outside of the US. And they have 14 of the 27 roster from outside the US.
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Old 09-29-17, 10:31 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
yea, I don't know which schools to look at to help get the number down.

Schools could also be using other scholarship avenues to get their domestic kids there too. Good grades and test scores help a lot too. Especially at the private universities. The reality is the schools have many combinations available to them to help reduce tuition for their players. With only 9.9 full rides available as a max (not all schools are fully funded) they have to find other avenues to get them money.

I know an NAIA school told my son last year that because of his grades and test scores he would be able to get him more money (above and beyond what he was already offered when he applied) and it wouldn't count against his (the coaches) athletic scholarships. He didn't go there so we never found out what that would have been. Turns out that school's recruiting class for this fall had 8 of the 13 players from outside of the US. And they have 14 of the 27 roster from outside the US.
Generally as long you have a 3.2 you are eligible for some money.

A 3.6 qualifies you for many schools honors programs and opens up all sorts of academic money
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  #21  
Old 09-29-17, 11:19 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Generally as long you have a 3.2 you are eligible for some money.

A 3.6 qualifies you for many schools honors programs and opens up all sorts of academic money
Need the right test scores. Probably more so than the GPA especially at private schools.
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  #22  
Old 09-29-17, 12:08 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Need the right test scores. Probably more so than the GPA especially at private schools.
that's true. A good combination of both does the trick
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Old 09-29-17, 08:46 PM
Gameday10 Gameday10 is offline
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Originally Posted by SportsObserver513 View Post
Lots of good info here. Though I'd challenge you to look at the 99 CUP Gold team from last year and count the amount of D1 players. It's possible to play high school and club and get a D1 scholarship. Kids playing now that are going D1: Ben Wendell, Matt Fickenworth, Linden Eberle, Diego, Will from Moeller, The center back from St. X. It's not a lost cause. But you better be a stud.
The group above might be playing D1 but how much money did they get athleticly compared to academically? All good players but no studs in that group listed.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-17, 07:36 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by Gameday10 View Post
The group above might be playing D1 but how much money did they get athleticly compared to academically? All good players but no studs in that group listed.
I do not think anyone is getting huge money to play mens soccer. (9.9 scholarships per team makes it simple math) An athletic scholarship combined with academic becomes a decent deal. (Best investment is ACT Prep course)
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