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  #1  
Old 09-10-17, 12:23 PM
Ilsco Ilsco is offline
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Summit country day enrollment figures

At the risk of opening up a can of worms, I have heard from 3 or 4 sources (some even reliable) that the enrollment figures submitted by SCD last winter/spring were incorrect (low) at that the OHSAA has called them on it. I am not suggesting that SCD did anything intentional, but two questions.

Has anyone else heard anything about this? If this is true, I would assume that SCD plays in the DII tournament this year? (But with the OHSAA who knows what they do).
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  #2  
Old 09-10-17, 12:30 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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No idea if that is true. No idea if ohsaa would do anything.

But everyone else in d3 would be estatic if it was true and they moved.them up. Outside of scd, the other top teams are all pretty even it seems.
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  #3  
Old 09-10-17, 08:39 PM
SWOhioRiverbat SWOhioRiverbat is offline
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Would definitely change things. If I remember correctly they were only about 4 boys away from D2 enrollment.
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  #4  
Old 09-11-17, 10:06 AM
xscoutsoc xscoutsoc is offline
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Is this going to lead to a public vs private debate before the tournament starts this year?
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  #5  
Old 09-11-17, 01:48 PM
Pitchperfect Pitchperfect is offline
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This is a simple reporting matter, easily identified easily solved. No need to boil the ocean. My guess is we will take this simple issue and make it complex.


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  #6  
Old 09-11-17, 03:28 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilsco View Post
At the risk of opening up a can of worms, I have heard from 3 or 4 sources (some even reliable) that the enrollment figures submitted by SCD last winter/spring were incorrect (low) at that the OHSAA has called them on it. I am not suggesting that SCD did anything intentional, but two questions.

Has anyone else heard anything about this? If this is true, I would assume that SCD plays in the DII tournament this year? (But with the OHSAA who knows what they do).
No dog in this fight or anything, but if I were in charge of the OHSAA and found that a school did this deliberately they wouldn't compete in any division. They would stay home.

If it's an accident or error, different story.

Good luck proving it was intentional though.
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  #7  
Old 09-11-17, 08:15 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
No dog in this fight or anything, but if I were in charge of the OHSAA and found that a school did this deliberately they wouldn't compete in any division. They would stay home.

If it's an accident or error, different story.

Good luck proving it was intentional though.
If the mistake was deliberate then the school should be punished.

If it was an honest error, especially since this is the first year of competitive balance, then just correct it now and adjust accordingly.
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  #8  
Old 09-11-17, 08:34 PM
CincyIllinifan CincyIllinifan is offline
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Don't they only have about 100 kids per class (boys and girls)? I would think any unintentional error would be a relatively small number.
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  #9  
Old 09-11-17, 08:46 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyIllinifan View Post
Don't they only have about 100 kids per class (boys and girls)? I would think any unintentional error would be a relatively small number.
Yes but the multiplier in soccer is 6 I think. So scd is sitting at 198 it looks like. The cutoff for d3 is 199. So if they have just 1 additional kid that receives the multiplier that in theory could put them over the cutoff in d3.

Is this true? Would ohsaa do anything about it now? Those are the real question.
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  #10  
Old 09-11-17, 08:50 PM
Pitchperfect Pitchperfect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Yes but the multiplier in soccer is 6 I think. So scd is sitting at 198 it looks like. The cutoff for d3 is 199. So if they have just 1 additional kid that receives the multiplier that in theory could put them over the cutoff in d3.



Is this true? Would ohsaa do anything about it now? Those are the real question.


They should


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  #11  
Old 09-11-17, 08:56 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitchperfect View Post
They should


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Agree. But this is ohsaa.
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  #12  
Old 09-12-17, 10:53 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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again, proving these kinds of things is impossible

there's been talk in football circles for years of enrollment manipulation

do i believe it? no
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  #13  
Old 09-21-17, 07:48 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Summit Country Day should be in the GCL Coed in all sports. At least they'd have some competition.
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  #14  
Old 09-21-17, 10:48 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Irwin20 View Post
Summit Country Day should be in the GCL Coed in all sports. At least they'd have some competition.
They aren't a Catholic school though are they?
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  #15  
Old 09-22-17, 08:32 AM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
They aren't a Catholic school though are they?
Yes.
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  #16  
Old 09-22-17, 09:14 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
They aren't a Catholic school though are they?
Yes, have a very nice Chapel on campus by the way. Not sure of the reasons they stay in the league they are in. Maybe they've tried to get in the GCL but were denied for some reason or maybe they like beating up little schools.
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  #17  
Old 09-22-17, 09:24 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Would they be a good fit in other sports for the GCL?
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  #18  
Old 09-22-17, 09:36 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Here's what I'm familiar with:

Football: Probably in the bottom half but by no means the worse.
Womans Soccer: Above average. From my experience McNick usually beats them as would Alter about on par with Carroll so top half of the league.
Boys Soccer: Probably would compete for title most years
Mens Basketball: Probably would compete for title most years.

I don't know if they compete in VB, track etc.


Thats about it from me.
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  #19  
Old 09-22-17, 12:06 PM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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I think the girls would likely challenge for the league this year. After looking at the roster and doing some quick searches, it looks like they have 4 girls going to division 1 colleges. I know it doesn't mean a lot, but that's a pretty decent indicator of how competitive a high school team will be.
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  #20  
Old 09-24-17, 03:26 PM
GeorgetownTiger GeorgetownTiger is offline
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Is there any more information about the original nature of this post. Tournament time is around the corner. Figure a decision has to be or has been made.
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  #21  
Old 09-25-17, 08:19 AM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgetownTiger View Post
Is there any more information about the original nature of this post. Tournament time is around the corner. Figure a decision has to be or has been made.
This assumes that the claim in the first post is true.
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  #22  
Old 09-27-17, 02:19 PM
Pitchperfect Pitchperfect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammtd34 View Post
This assumes that the claim in the first post is true.


Pretty easy to resolve the issue just count :-)


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  #23  
Old 09-28-17, 12:06 PM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitchperfect View Post
Pretty easy to resolve the issue just count :-)


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Right, but why would they? Because someone on Yappi heard? If they needed to be moved up, they would have moved up when everyone else did.
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  #24  
Old 09-28-17, 02:31 PM
Pitchperfect Pitchperfect is offline
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Originally Posted by ammtd34 View Post
Right, but why would they? Because someone on Yappi heard? If they needed to be moved up, they would have moved up when everyone else did.


If there wasn't a error in their calculations. A simple count would resolve the entire matter.


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  #25  
Old 09-28-17, 03:17 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitchperfect View Post
If there wasn't a error in their calculations. A simple count would resolve the entire matter.


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You're assuming there is a matter to resolve in the first place. Quoting the original poster....

"I've heard from 3 or 4 sources (some reliable)...."

The whole discussion in this thread was based on basically hearsay.

Why would or should SCD count anything if their first count was correct?
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  #26  
Old 09-28-17, 05:25 PM
Pitchperfect Pitchperfect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
You're assuming there is a matter to resolve in the first place. Quoting the original poster....



"I've heard from 3 or 4 sources (some reliable)...."



The whole discussion in this thread was based on basically hearsay.



Why would or should SCD count anything if their first count was correct?


That's the question - was it. Very easy very simple to put to rest.


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  #27  
Old 09-28-17, 08:45 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitchperfect View Post
That's the question - was it. Very easy very simple to put to rest.


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You're missing the point. They counted like all the other schools last year. I would love for them to move up to D2 but that doesn't mean they should recount. There is no evidence other than anonymous posters on Yappi that they should recount. Just because people think there is an error (unless you are OHSAA or SCD themselves) doesn't mean a recount should happen.
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  #28  
Old 09-29-17, 08:17 AM
Ilsco Ilsco is offline
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Absolutely correct point - no actual evidence or confirmation of any error. My feeling is that even if there was a mistake OHSAA will not take any action.

The numbers are a bit curious. SCD has a Competitive Balance number of 44 with an enrollment of 154. By comparison, Dayton Christian has a CB number of 57 with an enrollment of 117, Cincinnati Christian has a CB number of 61 with an enrollment of 85 and CCD has a CB number of 60 with an enrollment of 130.

SCD also rosters a Varsity (24), JV A and JV B team. Conservative estimate would be between 40 and 50 kids rostered. Don't believe a lot of those kids went to 7th and 8th grade at Summit so most would have a CB factor of either 1 or 6
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  #29  
Old 09-29-17, 08:38 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilsco View Post
Absolutely correct point - no actual evidence or confirmation of any error. My feeling is that even if there was a mistake OHSAA will not take any action.

The numbers are a bit curious. SCD has a Competitive Balance number of 44 with an enrollment of 154. By comparison, Dayton Christian has a CB number of 57 with an enrollment of 117, Cincinnati Christian has a CB number of 61 with an enrollment of 85 and CCD has a CB number of 60 with an enrollment of 130.

SCD also rosters a Varsity (24), JV A and JV B team. Conservative estimate would be between 40 and 50 kids rostered. Don't believe a lot of those kids went to 7th and 8th grade at Summit so most would have a CB factor of either 1 or 6
Since SCD is a catholic school could that be part of reason their CB number is lower than other private schools you are comparing? Resulting in many of their players only receiving a CB factor of 1?

If a student attended a Catholic school that is not the feeder school to SCD they would still be enrolled in the same system of education which would make them Tier 1 or a CB factor of 1 for soccer.

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Schoo...Balance101.pdf

What I don't know enough about is since SCD is an "independent" Catholic school (I guess that means not part of a diocese) would that mean they wouldn't be considered part of the same system of education by OHSAA?

Maybe someone with a better understanding of the Catholic education system can chime in here.
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  #30  
Old 09-29-17, 10:54 AM
Ilsco Ilsco is offline
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Yes -that absolutely could be a major factor. I don't know enough about where a lot of the kids went to junior high so that is entirely possible. I do know a number of the varsity kids from club and a good number went to public junior highs. It just seems off, especially in light of the number of players in the program (CCD and CCS can barely field a full JV team).

Not really my issue to fight - I would actually think SCD would prefer to be in a higher division
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