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  #31  
Old 10-02-17, 01:54 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
From my perspective the officiating has not been a problem this year. Sure there are some calls here and there, but overall the refs have done a good job controlling the games and caught all of the obvious stuff. The parents/crowds/student section have a very limited understanding of the rules of the game. Particularly offside calls.
The recent changes to how Offside is called is likely adding to the confusion. In years passed, the player was penalized (when they met the criteria) at the post where they first moved into an Offside Position; now they are penalized WHERE they actually meet one of the criteria to penalize. Thus that attacking play could, theoretically, proceed downfield for an additional 30-50 yards from where them were deemed in an Offside Position, which has obviously confused the players and fans even more than they used to be.......
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  #32  
Old 10-02-17, 04:12 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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^^^^^

I agree with that

As someone who refs the game but also has a son that plays and therefore is a parent and a fan, watching the inconsistency in this is maddening

some are still popping the flag immediately. Others wait.

sometimes you get one AR that waits while the other AR on the opposite end pops it right away... in the same game.

When it comes to these kinds of rules changes, perhaps a meeting not only between refs in a region but also the coaches would help. having everyone in the same spot getting the same message would help.
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  #33  
Old 10-02-17, 09:18 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
^^^^^

I agree with that

As someone who refs the game but also has a son that plays and therefore is a parent and a fan, watching the inconsistency in this is maddening

some are still popping the flag immediately. Others wait.

sometimes you get one AR that waits while the other AR on the opposite end pops it right away... in the same game.

When it comes to these kinds of rules changes, perhaps a meeting not only between refs in a region but also the coaches would help. having everyone in the same spot getting the same message would help.
Some of that ‘variability’ you’re seeing here could still come down to when & where the Offside Positioned player actually interferes with play, etc. And I admit, it could also be a case of ‘old habits are tough to break’.....I find I have to remind myself at least once a game, when that attacker is ‘off’......”keep moving, don’t pop it yet!”
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  #34  
Old 10-03-17, 08:35 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
When it comes to these kinds of rules changes, perhaps a meeting not only between refs in a region but also the coaches would help. having everyone in the same spot getting the same message would help.
I have always thought this could be VERY beneficial. Maybe not every coach, because it could be bothersome/troublesome/annoying to have some coaches there with referees. But, at least representatives from conferences to communicate TO the referees about the thoughts or feelings from the conference coaches and communicate FROM the referees to the rest of the coaches in the region/conference.
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  #35  
Old 10-03-17, 10:30 AM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
I have always thought this could be VERY beneficial. Maybe not every coach, because it could be bothersome/troublesome/annoying to have some coaches there with referees. But, at least representatives from conferences to communicate TO the referees about the thoughts or feelings from the conference coaches and communicate FROM the referees to the rest of the coaches in the region/conference.
It may help.....and an equal chance it won’t matter at all. I don’t think it’s that difficult for a HC to simply READ the Rulebook. Many, it appears, just don’t bother. And the Has I’ve encountered that are actually certified referees themselves are no better because of it.....as if they forget everything they learned during the referee course, not only about the Rules, but officiating mechanics, factors affecting calls, etc.

Last edited by MJ_SoccerRef; 10-04-17 at 06:42 PM..
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  #36  
Old 10-03-17, 12:11 PM
soref soref is offline
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Originally Posted by MJ_SoccerRef View Post
It may help.....and an equal chance it matter at all. I don’t think it’s that difficult for a HC to simply READ the Rulebook. Many, it appears, just don’t bother. And the Has I’ve encountered that are actually certified referees themselves are no better because of it.....as if they forget everything they learned during the referee course, not only about the Rules, but officiating mechanics, factors affecting calls, etc.
I was a spectator at a HS match this past weekend where a player was given a 2nd YC and the referee crew allowed that player to be replaced. The team that received the 2nd Caution was losing 1-0 at the time and the game ended in a 2-2 tie. The coach of the other team questioned whether or not they should play short but was unaware of the rule and took the AR's word.
This is a perfect example where the coach not knowing the rule had a major impact on the game. Now who's to say that if he had definitely known the rule if he would have been able to convince the referee crew that they were wrong but he would have at least had a chance.
Situations like this are why OHSAA should allow protests. This was a mis-application of a rule and one team gained a clear benefit from it.
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  #37  
Old 10-03-17, 02:06 PM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soref View Post
I was a spectator at a HS match this past weekend where a player was given a 2nd YC and the referee crew allowed that player to be replaced. The team that received the 2nd Caution was losing 1-0 at the time and the game ended in a 2-2 tie. The coach of the other team questioned whether or not they should play short but was unaware of the rule and took the AR's word.
This is a perfect example where the coach not knowing the rule had a major impact on the game. Now who's to say that if he had definitely known the rule if he would have been able to convince the referee crew that they were wrong but he would have at least had a chance.
Situations like this are why OHSAA should allow protests. This was a mis-application of a rule and one team gained a clear benefit from it.
To be clear:
1. The team must play 1 player down, and
2. There is no recourse for the disadvantaged team with OHSAA?

Edit: These were both questions. Thanks.
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  #38  
Old 10-03-17, 02:33 PM
Gview Gview is offline
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1. Yes
2. No
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  #39  
Old 10-03-17, 02:47 PM
ammtd34 ammtd34 is offline
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Originally Posted by Gview View Post
1. Yes
2. No
Thanks.
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  #40  
Old 10-03-17, 07:31 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soref View Post
I was a spectator at a HS match this past weekend where a player was given a 2nd YC and the referee crew allowed that player to be replaced. The team that received the 2nd Caution was losing 1-0 at the time and the game ended in a 2-2 tie. The coach of the other team questioned whether or not they should play short but was unaware of the rule and took the AR's word.
This is a perfect example where the coach not knowing the rule had a major impact on the game. Now who's to say that if he had definitely known the rule if he would have been able to convince the referee crew that they were wrong but he would have at least had a chance.
Situations like this are why OHSAA should allow protests. This was a mis-application of a rule and one team gained a clear benefit from it.
Not sure how this can happen.....it’s been several seasons since the NF Rule was changed so as to match FIFA, where 2nd Caution --> Red, the team plays short. I can only hope that this crew double-checked the Rules so they can learn form this & not repeat the mistake. There is NO reason why ANY HC should ever know the Rules ‘better’ than the Officials; it’s our professional responsibility to be the ‘Rules Expert’ on the field, every game. Vice a ‘protest’ to the Main Office, the proper communication, using concise, factual language....sent to the particular Referee Association, District Athletic Board, etc......to bring the incident to the attention of the proper people, will yield the ‘best results’: making sure the mistake is not repeated, especially in a post-season game, which would be more egregious, IMHO.
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  #41  
Old 10-04-17, 01:54 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ_SoccerRef View Post
It may help.....and an equal chance it matter at all. I don’t think it’s that difficult for a HC to simply READ the Rulebook. Many, it appears, just don’t bother. And the Has I’ve encountered that are actually certified referees themselves are no better because of it.....as if they forget everything they learned during the referee course, not only about the Rules, but officiating mechanics, factors affecting calls, etc.
MJ: I agree 100%, it may help AND it's not asking too much to read the rulebook. Downside is, there's nothing right now that helps the conflict in coaches and referees -- and possibly how coaches can communicate what's happening to their players and the players to fans/parents.

I firmly believe getting the pieces together in the HS soccer world can make it a better situation. Referees are needed. Coaches are needed. More respect is needed from coach to referee, referee to coach, player to referee, and referee to player. A situation like this could help everyone understand that need much more. There's tons of coaches clinics that happen where coaches can learn from each other...why not a situation where coaches and referees can learn from each other?
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  #42  
Old 10-04-17, 06:41 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
MJ: I agree 100%, it may help AND it's not asking too much to read the rulebook. Downside is, there's nothing right now that helps the conflict in coaches and referees -- and possibly how coaches can communicate what's happening to their players and the players to fans/parents.

I firmly believe getting the pieces together in the HS soccer world can make it a better situation. Referees are needed. Coaches are needed. More respect is needed from coach to referee, referee to coach, player to referee, and referee to player. A situation like this could help everyone understand that need much more. There's tons of coaches clinics that happen where coaches can learn from each other...why not a situation where coaches and referees can learn from each other?
I’d love to participate in something like that.

I’ve been blessed to experience this Game from (I think) every possible perspective: player (HS & US Navy overseas), parent, coach (my son’s U-Littles & then traveling team).....even for a brief time, PA Announcer, which was an interesting learning experience. So I ‘get’ the inherent ‘biases’ that each of those three main perspectives has......and I try to use that understanding when I officiate.

As a starting point, I think if coaches & players understood the various factors that affect how we evaluate any of the various ‘incidents’ we see, they might be better able (maybe) to accept those calls & 'no calls’ that don’t go in their favor somehow. If coaches & players could simply spend less time trying to help us officiate, and instead focusing on their role, playing or coaching, not only would the games certainly have a higher level of ‘good sportsmanship’, I and MANY of my peers believe they would also ‘play’ or ‘coach’ more effectively.
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