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  #1  
Old 09-15-17, 11:59 AM
soref soref is offline
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NY High School soccer score 23-0

http://newyorksportswriters.org/blog...ccer-win.shtml
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  #2  
Old 09-15-17, 12:42 PM
2731 2731 is offline
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wow. ick.
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  #3  
Old 09-15-17, 01:50 PM
Kickin Wing Kickin Wing is offline
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Calvary Christian
11-1 over Gallatin
10-0 over Walton-Verona
10-0 over Portland Christian
10-0 over Paris
10-0 over Gallatin
10-0 over Brossart

I know nothing about KY teams... But those are some big wins. Are those teams all bad or is Calvary Christian really good?

... and it looks like they are scheduled to play Brossart again, who they already beat by 10? Seems like it would be more useful to play some better teams.
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  #4  
Old 09-15-17, 03:13 PM
Gameday10 Gameday10 is offline
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Maybe they can schedule Anderson they seem to have a lot in common.
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  #5  
Old 09-15-17, 09:57 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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I have no idea about the structure of Calvary Christian's schedule.

Are they in a league (or forced district by state association) where these games are compulsory?

Is this a case where the teams have had a sudden ability shift?

In the case of the 23-0, it seems on the surface that there should have been some degree of restraint shown. I know that big numbers will happen sometimes at any level, and some times you can only do so much to prevent them, but 23 is excessive in my opinion.
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  #6  
Old 09-16-17, 12:13 AM
SirStanley SirStanley is offline
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Largest differential I've ever heard of in high school soccer was in 1999 when Summit won it's first round game 29-0 (reported in the paper as 10-0). That team went on to win Summit's first soccer state championship.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-17, 12:07 PM
concreek concreek is offline
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Along those lines, what is the best way to humanely end a blowout. My son was on the winning side of a blowout and the coach, I guess trying to do the right thing in keeping the score line down, basically had our team play keep away in our own defensive end for the entire second half. It was miserable to watch and I’m guessing the losing team would have rather lost 23-0 rather than endure a half of chasing a ball around.
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  #8  
Old 09-16-17, 02:21 PM
2731 2731 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickin Wing View Post
Calvary Christian
11-1 over Gallatin
10-0 over Walton-Verona
10-0 over Portland Christian
10-0 over Paris
10-0 over Gallatin
10-0 over Brossart

I know nothing about KY teams... But those are some big wins. Are those teams all bad or is Calvary Christian really good?

... and it looks like they are scheduled to play Brossart again, who they already beat by 10? Seems like it would be more useful to play some better teams.
Not as useful as winning Enquirer athlete of the week for boys soccer.

Stats baby....stats.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-17, 08:37 PM
Louis1234 Louis1234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gameday10 View Post
Maybe they can schedule Anderson they seem to have a lot in common.
Wow! Its amazing how butt-hurt 2 grown adults can be over some silly award and a little local press. Your jealousy of a 16 yr old has reached the disturbing level.
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  #10  
Old 09-16-17, 11:40 PM
SirStanley SirStanley is offline
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Originally Posted by concreek View Post
Along those lines, what is the best way to humanely end a blowout. My son was on the winning side of a blowout and the coach, I guess trying to do the right thing in keeping the score line down, basically had our team play keep away in our own defensive end for the entire second half. It was miserable to watch and I’m guessing the losing team would have rather lost 23-0 rather than endure a half of chasing a ball around.
Absolutely agree. Nothing worse than keepaway.
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  #11  
Old 09-17-17, 09:03 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concreek View Post
Along those lines, what is the best way to humanely end a blowout. My son was on the winning side of a blowout and the coach, I guess trying to do the right thing in keeping the score line down, basically had our team play keep away in our own defensive end for the entire second half. It was miserable to watch and I’m guessing the losing team would have rather lost 23-0 rather than endure a half of chasing a ball around.
There are a few different tactics to employ besides just playing keep-away to help keep scores as low as possible when there is a significant difference in skill between two teams. Have players play positions they don't normally play. Set a minimum amount of passes that must be made in your offensive half before a shot can be taken. Ban any shots within the box. Have the team work on specific runs and plays that they need to get better at that are normally difficult for them to accomplish in regular games.

Everyone realizes the goal of playing a game is to score and ultimately win. And as kids, when they realize they all can score at will, their focus will understandably go towards that. As a coach, and a mature adult, it's up to you to help get their focus off of simply scoring and onto things that are more beneficial to making the team better and individual development.
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  #12  
Old 09-17-17, 09:16 AM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
There are a few different tactics to employ besides just playing keep-away to help keep scores as low as possible when there is a significant difference in skill between two teams. Have players play positions they don't normally play. Set a minimum amount of passes that must be made in your offensive half before a shot can be taken. Ban any shots within the box. Have the team work on specific runs and plays that they need to get better at that are normally difficult for them to accomplish in regular games.

Everyone realizes the goal of playing a game is to score and ultimately win. And as kids, when they realize they all can score at will, their focus will understandably go towards that. As a coach, and a mature adult, it's up to you to help get their focus off of simply scoring and onto things that are more beneficial to making the team better and individual development.
Completely agree with the ‘tactics’ you’ve suggested here. I’ll add one of my own in addition, one I have indeed suggested to HCs when this subject has come up in conversations......

Once your team has created that 1v1 within the PA against the opposing Keeper, tap the ball OOP for a goal kick. Allow the other team to bring the ball to mid-field perhaps......if the talent level is THAT divergent, ‘nature will take it’s course’. Allow them a few touches at least. Sending the ball OOP for a GK will allow either team to sub, and doing so will NOT ‘teach players how take a bad shot on goal’, as some coaches insist.....really? You don’t think your players are smart enough to know the difference in technique there? This tactical approach would allow those players, not used to attacking for various reasons (position change, inexperienced JV players playing up, etc.) to develop ‘attacking habits’, etc.

Would also note that the OHSAA added the ‘running clock’ in 2016......when the margin is 6 goals or more, in the 2nd half, the clock doesn’t stop....unless there is a ‘serious’ injury, needing prolonged treatment, etc. in essence (referee’ discretion' there), being the only exception. It’s a form of a ‘mercy rule’, IOW.
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  #13  
Old 09-17-17, 09:29 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Let's talk about the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about.....the other team just stinks. They know it. We know it. It's not the better teams responsibility to come down to the other teams level of play.

I don't like to see teams get humiliated either but what if you do all those things and the final score is 15-0? It's still a butt kicking. I don't think the other team is going to feel any better with a 15-0 score with all sort of obvious rules on the winning team than 23-0 with less rules. Both are bad scores. The only thing that will make the losing team feel better is if they get to the point when winning teams play straight up and have to work to beat them. And ultimately then win a few games.

And the reality is the bad teams have put the bad score behind them about 3 minutes after they shake hands with the other team. By the time they walk off the field they are thinking about their plans for the weekend or dinner more than the bad score. Kids are smarter and tougher than we give them credit for. Got to quit trying to protect them from every disappointment in life. These minor disappointments in life are important now so when they face real disappointment later they can deal with them.
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  #14  
Old 09-17-17, 10:27 AM
2731 2731 is offline
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Originally Posted by Louis1234 View Post
Wow! Its amazing how butt-hurt 2 grown adults can be over some silly award and a little local press. Your jealousy of a 16 yr old has reached the disturbing level.
I believe you're trying to include me in this quote. I wasn't talking about Anderson at all in this thread. Save your defense for when you need it. I know it's tough to be reminded but not everything is about Anderson. Instead of assuming you have the athlete of the week, you might wanna check which team does, and then check which post I quoted.


The other advice on holding the score down is pretty good in terms of development for players but not used very often. Why develop when you can boast that record?

Lastly I don't agree often with Winbypin, but he's dead on this one.... The kids move on way sooner than the adults.

Last edited by 2731; 09-17-17 at 03:16 PM..
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  #15  
Old 09-17-17, 03:31 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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One more thing I will add to this conversation.

I have witnessed multiple blowouts into the double digits. Nothing like 23-0 but bad enough. And there are basically two types of teams on the receiving end of the lopsided scores. Your first group are the ones that are trying their best the whole game. They know they are outmatched but that doesn't stop them from playing hard. They never give up. Despite being down double digits.

Then you have the other group that treat the game as a joke. During the course of the game they sit down on the field. Not hurt. Not tired. They just think it's cute or funny. No joke. I have seen this on more than one occasion. Sometimes they just try to inflict damage on the better team in way of injuring them. And during the course of the game, the team is generally goofing around and would much rather be someplace else.

Now...I will say passing it around, playing with non-dominant foot, etc against the team giving effort would have some merit. Winning team would get some decent work, etc.

But the good off team? I don't know what the answer is other than to say don't schedule if you can avoid it. This is the lose-lose scenario.
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  #16  
Old 09-17-17, 04:01 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Let's talk about the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about.....the other team just stinks. They know it. We know it. It's not the better teams responsibility to come down to the other teams level of play.

I don't like to see teams get humiliated either but what if you do all those things and the final score is 15-0? It's still a butt kicking. I don't think the other team is going to feel any better with a 15-0 score with all sort of obvious rules on the winning team than 23-0 with less rules. Both are bad scores. The only thing that will make the losing team feel better is if they get to the point when winning teams play straight up and have to work to beat them. And ultimately then win a few games.

And the reality is the bad teams have put the bad score behind them about 3 minutes after they shake hands with the other team. By the time they walk off the field they are thinking about their plans for the weekend or dinner more than the bad score. Kids are smarter and tougher than we give them credit for. Got to quit trying to protect them from every disappointment in life. These minor disappointments in life are important now so when they face real disappointment later they can deal with them.
It's not about the better team coming down to the other teams level. It's about the better team actually attempting to get something productive from the game. They know they are better, the other team knows they are better, the officials know they are better, everyone watching and playing in the game knows who is better. So just going out there and seeing how much you can score, and showing you are better, proves nothing and in most cases is counterproductive for the development of the better team. Bad habits are formed while you do things in a game you wouldn't normally do. So the point isn't to make the better team come down to the other teams level. The point is to make the better team not focus on the scoring, but instead polish their quality of play and individual skills.

The reason no one here is focused on how bad the other team is, is because there is nothing they can do about that during that game. They are going to continue to play to the best of their ability, trying to get better. So they are already doing the right thing. The debate here is over what is the right thing for the better team to do. Just seeing how much they can score isnt them trying to make themselves better.

This has nothing to do with feelings. Mercy rules in sports are rarely ever about feelings. They are about quickly moving on to what has become the inevitable, in hopes to reduce the higher risk of injuries when you have two severely mismatched teams.
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  #17  
Old 09-17-17, 04:26 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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The better team in a lopsided game like this has nothing to gain at all. Competition isn't good enough to work on anything. Basically you want to get out of the game without any injuries.

Play hard for a few minutes. Get the score up to around 6-0. Start subbing as much as possible. Move offense to defense and defense to offense. Score gets up to 9-0 or so. Start counting the number of passes before you can score or shoot. Shots have to be weak foot or outside the 18. Or whatever rule you want to impose. So it gets to 13-0 at some point.

So what have you gained as a team? The competition isn't good enough to challenge you even with these self-imposed limits. So you took some left footed shots? You could do that in practice. I guess you get some stats for guys that don't get many opportunities.

Unfortunately, some of these games are dictated by leagues or in other states districts. You can't avoid them. I never said score as much as you want. But taking your own team out of their normal play can also be detrimental as well.

But it's all about perceived hurt feelings and not "embarrassing" the other team. That's why the argument always revolves around the "right" and "wrong" way to handle the situation. The reality is the best way to handle this situation is to get it over as fast and safely as possible because there is nothing to gain from this scenario.
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  #18  
Old 09-17-17, 04:48 PM
2731 2731 is offline
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Truth is most high school coaches don't care much about individual development. They do care about team development and their team's record. (Yes yes yes I know there are exceptions, save the typing about the handful of individuals) The program record is what they are paid for. Individual development happens elsewhere.
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  #19  
Old 09-17-17, 09:03 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
The better team in a lopsided game like this has nothing to gain at all. Competition isn't good enough to work on anything. Basically you want to get out of the game without any injuries.

Play hard for a few minutes. Get the score up to around 6-0. Start subbing as much as possible. Move offense to defense and defense to offense. Score gets up to 9-0 or so. Start counting the number of passes before you can score or shoot. Shots have to be weak foot or outside the 18. Or whatever rule you want to impose. So it gets to 13-0 at some point.

So what have you gained as a team? The competition isn't good enough to challenge you even with these self-imposed limits. So you took some left footed shots? You could do that in practice. I guess you get some stats for guys that don't get many opportunities.

Unfortunately, some of these games are dictated by leagues or in other states districts. You can't avoid them. I never said score as much as you want. But taking your own team out of their normal play can also be detrimental as well.

But it's all about perceived hurt feelings and not "embarrassing" the other team. That's why the argument always revolves around the "right" and "wrong" way to handle the situation. The reality is the best way to handle this situation is to get it over as fast and safely as possible because there is nothing to gain from this scenario.
But when you have just about any conversation that involves blowouts and mercy rules it is a guarantee that people will say mercy rules are about people not wanting their feelings hurt, or aren't taking it like a man, or aren't trying hard enough. But the truth is exactly what you just said. Mercy rules are really about getting two clearly mismatched teams out of a game as quickly as possible to avoid people getting hurt. How many of these very conversations have happened in the football forum that have half the people calling the other half a bunch of wusses and the problem with our soft society. All because people say the game needs to be sped up and gotten over with quickly when there is a blowout.

"Don't want to get blown out? Work harder!"

"Youre taking playing time away from bench players when you run the clock. Why's the better team have to get penalized for being great?"

"They need to not schedule that team" (they are in the same league)

"Don't want them to keep scoring? Stop them!"

"Why you mad bro? Feelings hurt?"

Did I miss any of the regular canned remarks?
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  #20  
Old 09-17-17, 10:38 PM
ohiosoccer1 ohiosoccer1 is offline
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We have had scores just as bad in Ohio within the last few years. Browse the boys and girls OSSCA site and you will find them. Some times with players scoring 7+ goals in a match.
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  #21  
Old 09-17-17, 10:40 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
One more thing I will add to this conversation.

I have witnessed multiple blowouts into the double digits. Nothing like 23-0 but bad enough. And there are basically two types of teams on the receiving end of the lopsided scores. Your first group are the ones that are trying their best the whole game. They know they are outmatched but that doesn't stop them from playing hard. They never give up. Despite being down double digits.

Then you have the other group that treat the game as a joke. During the course of the game they sit down on the field. Not hurt. Not tired. They just think it's cute or funny. No joke. I have seen this on more than one occasion. Sometimes they just try to inflict damage on the better team in way of injuring them. And during the course of the game, the team is generally goofing around and would much rather be someplace else.
The worst type of team on the receiving end of the lopsided game is the one who decide to be vengeful and foul out of anger. Often by this point the kids from the winning team who rarely get to play are on the field and are getting the brunt of the physical ramifications of the frustration. That's another reason why you see coaches ordering "keep away"- to protect their kids.
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Old 09-17-17, 10:40 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Lol. No, I think you have them all.

I get all you are saying....and I am not trying to argue with you directly. More with the premise that the better team will get anything of value from all the suggestions. I hate blowouts. You see them on the schedule and you dread them. Like we both said...get it over as fast as possible and pray for no injuries. My high school aged kids team got rid of all of those except league games the past couple of seasons. And with the younger kids the league usually takes care of that each season.

Thankfully my kids teams haven't been the recipient of many the past few years. And the couple they were involved with were by some really, really good teams that was honestly fun to watch them play....once you got past the disappointment of the loss. Lol.
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  #23  
Old 09-17-17, 10:46 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
The worst type of team on the receiving end of the lopsided game is the one who decide to be vengeful and foul out of anger. Often by this point the kids from the winning team who rarely get to play are on the field and are getting the brunt of the physical ramifications of the frustration. That's another reason why you see coaches ordering "keep away"- to protect their kids.
I agree. And the opposing coach does nothing.....

The substitution works well for bigger schools or teams with larger rosters. Some of the smaller schools don't have large benches and so their starters are stuck on the field longer than you want.

It's just an unfortunate situation all the way around.
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  #24  
Old 09-18-17, 07:51 AM
Kickin Wing Kickin Wing is offline
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Originally Posted by Gameday10 View Post
Maybe they can schedule Anderson they seem to have a lot in common.
You know... Anderson has a lot of tough games scheduled, The only pretty big wins...
Middletown 9-0
Withrow 8-0
West Clermont 9-0

Now Withrow and West Clermont have lost to multiple people by large amounts, so its not that surprising. Now the Middletown score is surprising, plus it looks like Middletown has done fairly well as the season has progressed. Maybe Middletown just under estimated how good Anderson was coming into the season, as it was both teams first game. Can't blame Anderson for Middletown not being ready to play.

Now if you want to see some bad upcoming games look at Summit. They only have 2 losses to two good out of state teams. Plus they have beat every team around here, ie 6-0 over Elder. They have 8 games left, and 4 are,

North College Hill 1-5 (only win against St. Bernard)
St. Bernard 0-6 (only scored 2 goals all season, plus multiple 8+ goal diff)
Norwood 1-5-1 (only win 2-1 vs Cin Christian another 1-5 team that Summit beat 9-0)
Clark Montessori 3-3-2 (1 win against Norwood, tie against Cin Christian)

... You couldn't pay me to go watch any of those games.
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  #25  
Old 09-18-17, 02:22 PM
TickyTack TickyTack is offline
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Another case of conference limitations. SCD also has Sycamore and Springboro so we'll see if they are for real
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  #26  
Old 09-18-17, 11:38 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
I agree. And the opposing coach does nothing.....

The substitution works well for bigger schools or teams with larger rosters. Some of the smaller schools don't have large benches and so their starters are stuck on the field longer than you want.

It's just an unfortunate situation all the way around.
And the refs do nothing, because "look at the score?!?". Meanwhile your opponent is trying to harm your players and causing season ending injuries because they know they won't get called out for it.
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  #27  
Old 09-19-17, 08:26 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Originally Posted by Kickin Wing View Post
Calvary Christian
11-1 over Gallatin
10-0 over Walton-Verona
10-0 over Portland Christian
10-0 over Paris
10-0 over Gallatin
10-0 over Brossart

I know nothing about KY teams... But those are some big wins. Are those teams all bad or is Calvary Christian really good?

... and it looks like they are scheduled to play Brossart again, who they already beat by 10? Seems like it would be more useful to play some better teams.
Good thing KHSAA has a mercy rule.
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  #28  
Old 09-21-17, 07:19 AM
Kickin Wing Kickin Wing is offline
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Originally Posted by 2731 View Post
Not as useful as winning Enquirer athlete of the week for boys soccer.

Stats baby....stats.
You know, if I was a coach, I'd be inclined to give you a bad ranking in the post season tournament for playing so many crappy teams.

Tournament baby... tournament.
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  #29  
Old 09-21-17, 07:37 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by TickyTack View Post
Another case of conference limitations. SCD also has Sycamore and Springboro so we'll see if they are for real
Summit CD should be in the GCL Coed in all sports.
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  #30  
Old 09-21-17, 08:37 AM
TickyTack TickyTack is offline
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Summit CD should be in the GCL Coed in all sports.


Completely agree
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