Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > General Sports > Debate Forum

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #121  
Old 06-26-17, 01:09 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 09-06-04
Location: Not Cincinnati
Posts: 33,063
Crusaders is on a distinguished road
Jesus Christ east. You are dangerously naive.

Is it Islam that radicalizes people. It is Islam that promotes laws and rules fit for the middle ages. It is Muslims who live that way and attempt to bring it wherever they go. These realities are something you have to come to terms with.

Having a family and childen does not magically make them equal to an American conservative household. How stupid do you have to be to even attempt to draw that parallel?

Last edited by Crusaders; 06-26-17 at 01:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 06-29-17, 02:50 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 16,329
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I see you're back to your old tactics of not comprehending what is written (or choosing to ignore what you have written). I QUOTED the line where you claimed that while the "Christian world went to hell" the Muslims were "looking at the stars". Own the implications of what you post which in this case was that the Muslim Caliphate was very advanced & Europe was very primitive.

As for Europe rediscovering it's lost mathematical & scientific knowledge from Islam I say BS. Europe never really "lost" that knowledge and much of it was regained from the Italian Renascence (legacy of Rome as they had the evidence of Roman engineering all around them) and the Byzantine Empire. And the Catholic church should get a lot more credit than Islam in "storing" the knowledge of the ancient Romans & Greeks.

I'm sure you do think it BS because to do otherwise, you might have to recognize insecurities. It shouldn't be difficult to admit an opponent has skills you don't possess and skills just as worthy. Did you appreciate the Nazis refusing to recognize the achievements of the "inferior" races?

The Italians with Leonardo, and I'm quoting now from a recognized Math Historian, ended the STAGNATION. They did this by BUILDING UPON THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE ANCIENTS AND THE ARABS and oh by the way, the knowledge of the ancients came to them by way of.. wait for it.....

the Arabs.

They didn't have it secreted in some Roman vault somewhere. China and the Hindus Valley were also going through stagnating periods of feudalism. I'll let you count the centuries of "European" (cough Christian cough) stagnation (degradation), while the Arabs and other eastern Med societies continued the progressions of Math, Astronomy and Technology in Constantinople and Toledo as primary centers. Europe WAS primitive. Italy was primitive. Religious fanaticism had killed off intellectual endeavor causing retrograde societies. "Stagnation" is being polite. They'd gone feudal. Britain was about the only region to make progress but they were starting from far, far behind to catch up to primitive.

Facts recognized by experts so disrupt your narrative don't they.

Only once the feudal states became large and strong enough to start challenging each other's borders was there need for technological advancements. As these powers fought, converged, strengthened, and treatied, through the Crusades they required slowly, knowledge of the ancients AND of the Arabs, by way of the Arabs. But they didn't add to it until the Italians several centuries after the first Crusades, started to make progress with cubics.


Exactly what expertise other than listening to the fat guy on the radio, are you bringing to the discussion?

Last edited by eastisbest; 06-29-17 at 03:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 06-29-17, 04:23 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-26-03
Location: fairfield, ohio
Posts: 20,577
lotr10 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
I'm sure you do think it BS because to do otherwise, you might have to recognize insecurities. It shouldn't be difficult to admit an opponent has skills you don't possess and skills just as worthy. Did you appreciate the Nazis refusing to recognize the achievements of the "inferior" races?

I can't believe you dropped the "Nazi" charge in this discussion. Weak East, very weak!


The Italians with Leonardo, and I'm quoting now from a recognized Math Historian, ended the STAGNATION. They did this by BUILDING UPON THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE ANCIENTS AND THE ARABS and oh by the way, the knowledge of the ancients came to them by way of.. wait for it.....

the Arabs.

Why do you struggle with the concept that there are multiple, often conflicting takes on history by people of otherwise good will? History is not a science like chemistry where there are recognized "universal truths". It's at best an educated guess as to how people lived and events unfolded in the past. I have read numerous historical accounts that argue that the Arab contribution to preserving ancient knowledge is vastly overstated. Why do you find that so threatening?


They didn't have it secreted in some Roman vault somewhere. China and the Hindus Valley were also going through stagnating periods of feudalism. I'll let you count the centuries of "European" (cough Christian cough) stagnation (degradation), while the Arabs and other eastern Med societies continued the progressions of Math, Astronomy and Technology in Constantinople and Toledo as primary centers. Europe WAS primitive. Italy was primitive. Religious fanaticism had killed off intellectual endeavor causing retrograde societies. "Stagnation" is being polite. They'd gone feudal. Britain was about the only region to make progress but they were starting from far, far behind to catch up to primitive.

Frankly I think your history is wrong here. First off Constantinople was the capital of the Byzantine Empire until 1452 (AKA the Eastern Roman Empire) and had little to do with Islam or the Arabs accept as adversaries having to fight off the constant Muslim attempts to conquer the empire.

One interpretation of the history of this time is that The Arabs were a primitive nomadic people who burst out of the Arabian peninsula at the head of an aggressive new religion overwhelming the ancient cultures that had existed for millennial in the Mediterranean and western Asia regions. Given the 1,000 years that the caliphate was thriving it produced remarkably little in the form of new technologies, art and human advancement.

As for Roman "vaults" triggering the European revival there is ample evidence that this in fact happened. Italian craftsmen, artists & engineers came across subterranean Roman "vaults" containing frescoes and other innovations and copied what they found. Roman roads, aqueducts, mega buildings (like the Coliseum & forts throughout Europe) stimulated engineering advancements. Especially influential were Roman plumbing operations used to control a cities water supplies and public bath operations. These sophisticated piping operations left the middle ages Europeans in awe.


Facts recognized by experts so disrupt your narrative don't they.

Only once the feudal states became large and strong enough to start challenging each other's borders was there need for technological advancements. As these powers fought, converged, strengthened, and treatied, through the Crusades they required slowly, knowledge of the ancients AND of the Arabs, by way of the Arabs. But they didn't add to it until the Italians several centuries after the first Crusades, started to make progress with cubics.


Exactly what expertise other than listening to the fat guy on the radio, are you bringing to the discussion?

Yea I listen to Rush Limbaugh who happens to be one of the most astute poltical commentators in America. And I can tell you that since he strives to educate AND entertain his audience every day (after all he is the nations anchor man) the LAST thing he would ever discuss on his show is middle ages history. He knows that such a topic would quickly deplete his daily audience numbered in the tens of millions.

I get most of my history from books. You should try it sometime as it's vastly superior to regurgitating what you heard from a college professor in a modern American university history department.
-
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 06-29-17, 07:06 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-27-06
Posts: 16,329
eastisbest will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I get most of my history from books. You should try it sometime as it's vastly superior to regurgitating what you heard from a college professor in a modern American university history department.-




Did you even read what you wrote there? Who do you think wrote the books or the citations from which the books were compiled and as I told you, I WAS quoting from a book, written by a well respected MATH Historian. Probably above Rush's head so you can expect you were misinformed.

The Italian Leonardo's fourage into Mathematics was based upon "ALGEBRA" not Geometry. Algebra, latin for Al Jabr. lol

The "Romans" don't have a lot of citings in Mathematics or Astronomy and Tech. They were great Engineers, based upon the Math of others and of course they're greatest contributions were in the way of politics. When the Italians came back to the game, they were using mixed roman and arabic notation, finally settling on arabic.

Give it up, you're flying in the face of every non revisionists Math History book ever, simply because you can't accept that a race you consider inferior (seig heil) kept it together, while Christianity fell into the hands of demonists or whatever you want to call those power hungry fanatics.

If my quote isn't good enough, here's a more popular culture dumbed down quote without all the fancy names and math references.

http://www.storyofmathematics.com/medieval.html

Europe went dark. Feudalism killed the spirit but in the long run, the creation of the many mini-competing empires was what might have been needed given the technological stagnation of the Roman empires.

Yes, I'm sure the "Arabs" had a few goat herders (as you imply they all were), wondering around deserts but they were the ones during this time with the learning academies; writing, inventing, and most importantly, sharing and building off the ideas of each other. They progressed the work of the ancients, invented a new math upon which everything we now have is based.

No Arabs, No Hilbert. No Godel to correct Hilbert. No Cavalieri, no Ricci-Curbastro, no Einstein.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 06-29-17, 08:58 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 08-26-03
Location: fairfield, ohio
Posts: 20,577
lotr10 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post


Did you even read what you wrote there? Who do you think wrote the books or the citations from which the books were compiled and as I told you, I WAS quoting from a book, written by a well respected MATH Historian. Probably above Rush's head so you can expect you were misinformed.

You do realize there is more than one book on these historical topics? How about thousands of books written by very smart, well respected people with a lot of knowledge in these areas and amazingly they don't all agree.


The Italian Leonardo's fourage into Mathematics was based upon "ALGEBRA" not Geometry. Algebra, latin for Al Jabr. lol

You might want to give the Hindu cultures in India a little credit for algebra also. Just saying.


The "Romans" don't have a lot of citings in Mathematics or Astronomy and Tech. They were great Engineers, based upon the Math of others and of course they're greatest contributions were in the way of politics. When the Italians came back to the game, they were using mixed roman and arabic notation, finally settling on arabic.

Oh I think the the consensus is that the Romans were more than "great engineers". And while they relied on previous mathematical developments their engineering accomplishments were also the result of large scale, controlled experimentation (almost unknown prior to Rome) which enabled them to innovate very effectively.

As for the Italians, I am unaware of anything in the 1,000 year history of the Caliphate that matches the creativity, innovation and shear brilliance of the 150 year Italian Renascence. The Italian Renascence was one of humanity's greatest periods of sustained achievement and it resulted primarily because Italy was the home province of the Roman Empire and also was the center of the Roman catholic Church.



Give it up, you're flying in the face of every non revisionists Math History book ever, simply because you can't accept that a race you consider inferior (seig heil) kept it together, while Christianity fell into the hands of demonists or whatever you want to call those power hungry fanatics.

If my quote isn't good enough, here's a more popular culture dumbed down quote without all the fancy names and math references.

http://www.storyofmathematics.com/medieval.html

Europe went dark. Feudalism killed the spirit but in the long run, the creation of the many mini-competing empires was what might have been needed given the technological stagnation of the Roman empires.

Yes, I'm sure the "Arabs" had a few goat herders (as you imply they all were), wondering around deserts but they were the ones during this time with the learning academies; writing, inventing, and most importantly, sharing and building off the ideas of each other. They progressed the work of the ancients, invented a new math upon which everything we now have is based.


Who said I considered Arabs "inferior". And there you go with the Nazi accusations - a sure sign you lost the argument. But giving the Arabs credit for dragging Europe out of the dark ages is cultural appropriation of the worst kind. the Europeans dragged themselves out of the dark ages and created the modern world we all live in. The Arab tribes that exploded out of Arabia to spread Islam were nomadic peoples. That is not a put down. The Mongols were a nomadic people who built a world spanning empire.

Also you do know that the "dark ages" only lasted a couple of hundred years after the fall of the Roman Empire. And yes it was bad in Europe but by 800 AD you already had the formation of great European powers like the one founded by the emperor Charlemagne. His was hardly a dark ages culture. And have you ever seen the cathedrals that were built in Europe going back to the late 8th century AD? Hardly the achievements one would expect from uncivilized brutes living in a "dark ages". Maybe you need to expand your history reading beyond some guy who focuses on Math.



No Arabs, No Hilbert. No Godel to correct Hilbert. No Cavalieri, no Ricci-Curbastro, no Einstein.

Oh please.
-
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz