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  #151  
Old 11-13-17, 08:51 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
That was a question directed at you for clarification of what you're trying to say. Because all of your comments seem to dance around and say everything "like" that without ever actually saying those words so that you can keep your deniability, and instead say things like "your words, not mine."

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If you want to make this into something else, you will. For the record, I did not say what you said. CardinalsFan likes to talk about "facts"-- well, there are plenty of "facts" out there about who participates in each sport-- and also how participation demographics are changing fairly rapidly-- if you don't like the facts, I'm sure you'll find a way to ignore them.
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  #152  
Old 11-13-17, 08:55 PM
CJSS CJSS is offline
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Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
You are 100% correct, if it was important to the Colerain admin they would have great coaches in other sports and be successful. The girls CC was fantastic. Two of the best pitchers in the City pitched for Colerain this year and when they pitched, the team won. I am firmly convinced that if a school makes it a priority, they can and will have a good program.
I watched their 2nd basemen (Smith) dominate on the mound from here to Florida over the years in summer ball. Very good pitcher, hard thrower, very confident, barely saw the mound last year. Cards softball baffles me.
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  #153  
Old 11-13-17, 09:11 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Originally Posted by Termite2 View Post
The OHSAA might be able to split off the smaller private schools into a different classification, not going to work for the larger ones. The bigger ones would still be in with the public schools, legally; the reason for classifications by student size, along with them being members of the organization means splitting off the lager private schools would fail under federal law.
There is a way for a split and that is for the public schools to withdraw from the OHSAA and form a new organization.
The truth is that should a split occur, it would be a loss for the majority of all schools and lead to a further decrease in the general public interests in all high school sports, public or private.
I would recommend that before the schools split, one should take a hard look at how that works in other states. When I lived in Hawaii, they had a split system. All anybody talked about was the private school league. I think Cali has something like that too and I believe Texas is split also. I know I do remember that at the end of the year the private champion and public champion play each other with the private school just killing the public school every year
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  #154  
Old 11-13-17, 09:17 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
It was more of an exaggerated example but if you need more specifics, in Cincinnati you have Mason/Moeller, Moeller/Sycamore, any game combination of Colerain, Oak Hills, Elder and LaSalle. ST X is is the middle of all of them and isn't a real far travel to play any of them mentioned schools so far. McNick/Anderson/Turpin or Middletown/Fenwick. To be honest, traveling to any school in the Cincinnati area isn't much of a haul for any school.

Now let's compare those inter-city games to St X traveling to Vegas to play Bishop Gorman. You really going to say that's comparable financially?

I can't believe I'm even having this argument lol

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  #155  
Old 11-13-17, 09:22 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Originally Posted by grappledude View Post
Not even remotely close to what Colerain has.
I agree with DMR. Fairfield has many hard nose, blue collar kids in their district. It is a sleeping giant
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  #156  
Old 11-13-17, 09:31 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Your words-- not mine. People who take unwise risks with their mental health/faculties are (by definition) unwise-- people who try to protect their mental faculties (with suitable precautions) are wise to do so... The sport of boxing is very damaging to participants' mental faculties-- look at who participates (in the modern era) in boxing (which used to be one of the three most popular sports in America, along with baseball and horseracing)-- and you will see who is likely to participate in the sport of football, as time progresses (now that we more fully understand the risks that playing football poses to participants' mental faculties)-- unless the technology that protects football players against brain injury experiences a quantum leap sometime soon...

Right now, you have all kinds of misinformed and/or uninformed people walking around thinking that some kind of miracle new helmet (or a greater emphasis on "proper tackling technique") is going to solve this problem in football-- when any neurologist will readily explain why none of these measures (short of switching to two-hand touch) is likely to do much of anything to solve the problem-- because it's not just the big, eye-catching hits (that cause major concussions) that are causing CTE-- it's ALL the little impacts that occur on every single play, on the line, or on ordinary, unremarkable tackles. Your brain is like a ripe, full peach inside a fluid-filled tin can-- and every time you rapidly decelerate your head, your brain sloshes through that fluid, and bounces off the inside of that can, and bruises your brain a little bit (to a greater or lesser amount). No amount of extra cushioning on the OUTSIDE of the helmet, nor any increased emphasis on "head-up tackling" is going to avert that bouncing of your peach/brain off the inside of your can/skull, every time you experience a rapid deceleration, after a quick, sudden movement (whether of one step or a running start).

X has been helping test a new helmet/collar design which is supposed to somehow tighten up that gap inside the wearer's skull (between the brain and inside of the skull), by (I believe) driving up the fluid pressure in the skull-- modeled on the organic structure that woodpeckers have apparently naturally evolved to protect their brains against the repeated, rapid brain decelerations that they experience when pounding their beaks into trees-- this helmet/neck-collar combo is supposed to reduce the "sloshing effect" between the brain and the inside of the skull (sort of like bracing or strapping the brain in tight, INSIDE the skull), so that the brain can't go bouncing off the inside of the skull, when the head is rapidly decelerated in a collision... But count me as very skeptical that this kind of protective mechanism can be artificially reproduced in human heads.
I have talked to many pediatricians about CTE and concussions and I think that many people have gotten the wrong idea. A concussion is a brain injury that if it is allowed to heal properly and completely does not leave and lasting long term consequence. However, the problem is that players have not been allowed to heal in the past before they get another concussion which can be exponentially more damaging than the original concussion. Young players (elementary school) players generally do not get concussions playing football (but soccer players do..) Starting in High school, you get many more instances of concussion and honestly, players should not play for 5 weeks afterwards. CTE is real and is documented but I wonder how many concussions these guys kept getting and not allowing themselves to heal.
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  #157  
Old 11-13-17, 09:49 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
I have talked to many pediatricians about CTE and concussions and I think that many people have gotten the wrong idea. A concussion is a brain injury that if it is allowed to heal properly and completely does not leave and lasting long term consequence. However, the problem is that players have not been allowed to heal in the past before they get another concussion which can be exponentially more damaging than the original concussion. Young players (elementary school) players generally do not get concussions playing football (but soccer players do..) Starting in High school, you get many more instances of concussion and honestly, players should not play for 5 weeks afterwards. CTE is real and is documented but I wonder how many concussions these guys kept getting and not allowing themselves to heal.
I think you should talk to some brain experts (i.e.- Neurologists or neurosurgeons) instead of run-of-the-mill garden variety pediatricians-- no offense to pediatricians-- but (I believe that) this information that you have received is just flatly wrong-- assuming what I have been told by neurologists (who are specialists in brain health) is correct... it is not accurate to say either:

1) That as long as you allow significant recovery time from a concussion that all is fine, and all will be well-- there ARE lasting effects from concussions-- think about it, if this were true, then you wouldn't have war veterans who are never the same after one incident of "shell shock" from the concussive effect of a nearby explosion.
2) That full-on concussions are the (only) thing that has to be guarded against, and if suffered, allowed to fully heal before playing again-- neurologists have told me that a good bit of the damage that football does is caused by thousands of (seemingly) innocuous minor collisions that happen on EVERY play, as lineman fire off the line, and (jarringly) slam into each other after the ball is snapped-- these tiny little "micro-concussions" (for lack of a better term) are just as damaging (cumulatively) as the big, macro-collisions that cause players to get evaluated in "concussion protocols"-- it's just that, because the players who suffer them are not walking around dizzy and/or disoriented, everyone assumes that they are fine, and no damage has been done.

However, regardless of whether you believe that my version of events or yours-- the other big problem is that, regularly (as we have seen several more times in just the most recent NFL weekend action-- which is the most scrutinized football in the world), teams, coaches, doctors, and players somehow conspire to keep putting players back out there, RIGHT AFTER they have suffered major concussive incidents-- there is no way, by any rational assessment, that Luke Keuchley should play football again this season (if EVER), but I bet you he does (or maybe already has-- I don't follow the NFL closely)-- it's as clear as day that he has already exceeded his brain's tolerance for these kind of collisions-- but I haven't seen any headlines stating that "Keuchley is done for the season".
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  #158  
Old 11-13-17, 09:49 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
Not at X. If it ever got out that a student was getting "special" academic help because he was a diversity candidate or worse because he was a great athlete or even a great actor, the feces would hit the fan. There are way too many alums that have not had their boys get in because of academic qualifications to have this ever happen. AGAIN, X DOES NOT RECRUIT ATHLETES AND GIVE THEM MONETARY ADVANTAGE FOR SAID ATHLETIC SKILL. The Alumni would go crazy.
Ummm...in the early 2000's X had a WR go to Miami and he did not qualify academically. Yes, you heard me right. He "graduated" from St X but wasn't even eligible for college football (Prop 48)? Explain how this can possibly happen in the scenario you described above?
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  #159  
Old 11-13-17, 09:56 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Ummm...in the 2000's X had a WR go to Miami and he did not qualify academically. Yes, you heard me right. He "graduated" from St X but wasn't even eligible for college football (Prop 48)? Explain how this can possibly happen in the scenario you described above?
That was an embarassing (but highly unusual) situation-- as far as I know, that is the only time an X student-athlete did not qualify (academically) for immediate participation at the college level-- my understanding is/was that this particular kid did not "test well"-- and recorded poor college board scores...

While that is still surprising/shocking (as it doesn't take a very high score to just be eligible), I think we all have heard about kids whose standardized test-taking skills did not measure (for whatever reason-- nerves, choking, etc.) to their actual academic classroom skills-- and that kid DID graduate from St. X taking all of the usual curriculum courses that most other run-of-the-mill X students took. Not saying it wasn't an embarassment for the the school-- but it hardly typifies what X student-athletes do, when they get to college.
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  #160  
Old 11-13-17, 09:57 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Ummm...in the 2000's X had a WR go to Miami and he did not qualify academically. Yes, you heard me right. He "graduated" from St X but wasn't even eligible for college football (Prop 48)? Explain how this can possibly happen in the scenario you described above?
No prop 48 in the early 2000s and he went to pay football too. I guess Miami was breaking the rules?
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  #161  
Old 11-13-17, 10:08 PM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
No prop 48 in the early 2000s and he went to pay football too. I guess Miami was breaking the rules?

Come again? Miami recruited him for football because he was a great WR at St X. He committed but wasn't academically eligible (Prop 16 which replaced Prop 48). Had to sit out the year.

How was Miami breaking rules?
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  #162  
Old 11-13-17, 11:47 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Did not realize that he sat out the year for academic issues. Thought it was a run-of-the-mill red shirt reason. I never heard he had testing problems. Even the run of the mill courses at X are pretty rigorous. My understanding is that the person in question is pretty successful now. So all is well that ends well. But your point is taken.
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  #163  
Old 11-14-17, 08:06 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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I'm glad to hear he is successful now.

Sh!t happens...EVEN AT ST X
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  #164  
Old 11-14-17, 01:23 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
That was an embarassing (but highly unusual) situation-- as far as I know, that is the only time an X student-athlete did not qualify (academically) for immediate participation at the college level-- my understanding is/was that this particular kid did not "test well"-- and recorded poor college board scores...

While that is still surprising/shocking (as it doesn't take a very high score to just be eligible), I think we all have heard about kids whose standardized test-taking skills did not measure (for whatever reason-- nerves, choking, etc.) to their actual academic classroom skills-- and that kid DID graduate from St. X taking all of the usual curriculum courses that most other run-of-the-mill X students took. Not saying it wasn't an embarassment for the the school-- but it hardly typifies what X student-athletes do, when they get to college.
There was a linebacker who went to BC who did not qualify, I believe.
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  #165  
Old 11-14-17, 04:38 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
I'm glad to hear he is successful now.

Sh!t happens...EVEN AT ST X
You don't know the half of it but that is for another post.
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  #166  
Old 11-14-17, 06:12 PM
PVKS66208 PVKS66208 is offline
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Originally Posted by DonMagicRon View Post
Colerain has no population. The Cincinnati area privates pillage thru Colerain like no other area in Cincinnati.
If there's no population, then the pickings should be slim to none right??? Tired anthem of the Publics with (often times) twice as many boys as the "Big" Catholics. Moeller has under 230 boys graduate every year.....
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  #167  
Old 11-19-17, 06:18 PM
James x2 James x2 is offline
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One game away from the duel

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Originally Posted by PVKS66208 View Post
If there's no population, then the pickings should be slim to none right??? Tired anthem of the Publics with (often times) twice as many boys as the "Big" Catholics. Moeller has under 230 boys graduate every year.....
This is gonna be a showdown if it happens.But Picktown and Liberty will have something to say about it.
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  #168  
Old 11-19-17, 07:07 PM
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The secret is that they have had coaches, a community and resources that buy into the fact that Mentor and Colerain produce quality educations and quality football players. Mentor was not always a powerhouse, I remember them competing with another great public school program, Warren Harding, losing 14-10 in a regional championship game in 2002. That class then beat Brian Hoyer's St. Ignatius team 31-0 the next year in the playoffs, I believe this is one of the worst defeats in the playoffs that Chuck Kyle has had. They lost to St. Ed's the next week in OT in a terrible weather game, just a literal perfect storm. But those two seasons had Mentor on the map. Their next generation of players then went to back to back state finals in 2006 and 2007. Mentor has junior high students that want to play for the high school and families go to the games for years.

It takes a lot of work for a public school to compete at this level but the work that these two schools have put in is bearing fruit. They use the advantages they do have to the fullest.
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  #169  
Old 11-19-17, 08:22 PM
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Well, this thread got out of control quickly.
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  #170  
Old 11-20-17, 09:35 AM
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Great game and a great season for both teams.

Mentor appeard to make an adjustment in the fourth quarter that made the difference. Ignatius had been getting a good rush on the QB all night which made any pass routs which took time develop impossible. In the fourth quarter Mentor went to quick hitting pass routes , one of which resulted in a touchdown. And in the last drive those routes were the effective enough to get into field goal range.
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  #171  
Old 11-20-17, 09:48 AM
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Well, this thread got out of control quickly.
And you didn't even instigate it.
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  #172  
Old 11-20-17, 10:52 AM
Big D 185 Big D 185 is offline
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Originally Posted by DonMagicRon View Post
Colerain has no population. The Cincinnati area privates pillage thru Colerain like no other area in Cincinnati.
DMR-
Do I need to pull out the post from a few years ago when I proved to you that ALL but three starting players on Moes 2013 State Championship team came through the Parochial Grade schools?
You are getting to be like Rachel Maddow. One conspiracy theory after another.

For the factual record:
Colerain got busted for pillaging Northwest
Whitmer got nailed for bringing in out of district kids after the 2012 State finals

Colerain and Mentor both have great head coaches and like Winton Woods, they run to the regular season competition not from it.! There is the answer. ALL THREE also have incredible fan and alumni support.
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  #173  
Old 11-20-17, 11:06 AM
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The Little Cards program is a large part of Colerain's success. Kids in the area grow up in the system and want to be a star on the team when they get to HS. Except for they players we lose to GCL-S recruiting.
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  #174  
Old 11-20-17, 07:06 PM
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The Little Cards program is a large part of Colerain's success. Kids in the area grow up in the system and want to be a star on the team when they get to HS. Except for they players we lose to GCL-S recruiting.
You more than make up for any players that you lose to the GCL (presumably LaSalle, as X does not recruit athletes) with the top players that you strip (by hook or by crook) from the surrounding public school teams-- Oak Hills, Harrison, Taylor, Ross, Northwest, Finneytown, North College Hill, Mt. Healthy, Aiken, Western Hills, etc.-- which is why most all of them have had terrible teams now, over the last several decades, ever since Kerry "Recruiter Extraordinaire" Coombs began to work his magic over on the West Side-- Coombs would have made Faust proud... and from sound of the Columbus/Pickerington area fans, Pick Central would make Coombs proud-- good to see a matchup between these two Public School recruiting powerhouses!

You always complain about losing kids to the GCL, but nobody from Colerain ever talks about how many kids they rob from their surrounding public school brethren-- you're not taking kids from X, because X's student profile is entirely different than Colerain's. But despite the poor-mouthing and whining, Colerain ALWAYS has 5-10 athletes on their team that are faster than ANYBODY that X is putting out there-- as was amply demonstrated last Friday night, when all 3 of your primary running backs (Syncere, JJ, and Ivan) EACH broke off a long (70+ yard) run from behind the line of scrimmage and simply ran away from the X defense like they were standing still... just think if you managed to keep ALL of the football athletes that you "steal" from your neighboring public schools! (I used quotation marks, because no student "belongs" to any school--public or private-- it's a free country, and kids can [and should] go where they want to.)
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  #175  
Old 11-21-17, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by irish_buffalo View Post
Mentor Median Family Income - $65,322
Colerain Township Family Income - $63,364
Washington Local (Whitmer) District Family Income - $57,202

The top three are large and diverse blue collar districts. The local HS football team seems to matter more to blue collar folks. It is a means of pride and escape...
Mentor and Colerain have today what Canton, Massillon, Youngstown, Middletown, etc. communities enjoyed for many decades.....solid household incomes, stable and good coaching, blue collar mentality, and immense community pride.

While Colerain Township and Mentor have continued to grow, the steel towns took major hits the past few decades. Families with financial resources moved to the suburbs, hence the improvement of suburban programs, and there's nothing to attract families into the communities.

Obviously quality coaching and youth programs are important, but not being in an inner-city district and/or economically depressed city is critical.
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  #176  
Old 11-21-17, 08:33 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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Originally Posted by just a fan View Post
Mentor and Colerain have today what Canton, Massillon, Youngstown, Middletown, etc. communities enjoyed for many decades.....solid household incomes, stable and good coaching, blue collar mentality, and immense community pride.

While Colerain Township and Mentor have continued to grow, the steel towns took major hits the past few decades. Families with financial resources moved to the suburbs, hence the improvement of suburban programs, and there's nothing to attract families into the communities.

Obviously quality coaching and youth programs are important, but not being in an inner-city district and/or economically depressed city is critical.
The most important thing to successful programs are in this order parents - family and community. It has nothing to do with financial resources or youth programs. Communities families and parents that think and guide their children with good upbringing and instill in them pride for their community and schools. Parents that teach hard work and lead the child to participate in school activities that is the start to producing winners. Because of that schools are forced to provide good coaches and a winning in environment.

Last edited by CardinalsFan; 11-21-17 at 09:06 AM.
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  #177  
Old 11-21-17, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
The most important thing to successful programs are in this order parents - family and community. It has nothing to do with financial resources or youth programs. Communities families and parents that think and guide their children with good upbringing and instill in them pride for their community and schools. Parents that teach hard work and lead the child to participate in school activities that is the start to producing winners.
Umm...yes, and you'll find a MUCH higher percentage of the parents and families you describe in NON-inner city communities. It's not even close, to jaf's point.
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  #178  
Old 11-21-17, 05:13 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Colerain is known for quality education ?
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  #179  
Old 11-21-17, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
Colerain is known for quality education ?
Well, in that if kids aspire to attend ivy league schools and put in the effort they can still get in with a colerain diploma just like they could at any other school. Don't be daft.
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  #180  
Old 11-21-17, 06:35 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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So you are saying that it is an above average high school inn terms of academic achievement ? I have seen the " Well we do have a kid who went to the IVY league so how bad can it be defense . Didn't expect a reply to be honest but it is rated a bit below average in Ohio academically , sorry I know the Ivy league education may be attainable by a motivated student but it doesn't make the school well thought of from a academic standpoint Great football program no doubt . But to say like that poster did that 'Quality education is on people's minds as part of the equation is specious
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