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  #121  
Old 11-12-17, 08:21 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
You could go to ANY public school and you will see students transferring not necessarily getting recruited.

Privates do actively recruit and offer $$$ and other assistance to get the kid they want.
Now as far as public school students changing schools some do it for sports others for other opportunities or education.

I only know of one impact player that made a switch over the past 10+ years for Colerain Football (unlike those that may leave the district for other schools).

Generally, you may see one or two a year that finds their way into a district that helps make the weakest link (so to say) get stronger. The kid may not even make varsity but increasing bottom up talent results in better practices, better preparation with numbers and quality participating in these practices.

A lot of people don't even know all a family needs to do is claim an in district address or, have the kid go to a Butler Tech program or Great Oaks program and use open enroll in the school of choice to get in the door. I have seen this happen in several sports at several schools over the years. If the parents can ensure transportation little is ever questioned. Over the years I know of Colerain kids going to Oak Hills, FF, Hamilton or Ross, Kids from Lebanon finding their way to Mason or Kings or, going from Mason to Kings, Amelia to GE...Anderson to Turpin or the other way around... again it happens at all schools.

Do you have any proof that private schools recruit athletes to play sports? Do you have proof that they offer cheaper tuition based on athletic prowess?
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  #122  
Old 11-12-17, 08:35 PM
heftylefty heftylefty is offline
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Colerain is the biggest township in Hamilton county,and the second biggest in the state.First is West Chester.
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  #123  
Old 11-12-17, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperD1 View Post
1. Bullocks
2. Total bullocks
3. Complete and total bullocks
‘Fraid not.
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  #124  
Old 11-12-17, 08:46 PM
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‘Fraid not.
‘Fraid so.
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  #125  
Old 11-12-17, 09:05 PM
fish82 fish82 is online now
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‘Fraid so.
Okay.
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  #126  
Old 11-12-17, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by heftylefty View Post
Colerain is the biggest township in Hamilton county,and the second biggest in the state.First is West Chester.
By area only, not population.
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  #127  
Old 11-13-17, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Heh!— funny to see/hear this plainly acknowledged by a (likely) Colerain supporter— I’ve always suspected this— and that it was happening through more than happenstance (in other words, these kids that were ending up in Colerain’s district— who just HAPPENED to be really good football players— were getting there through more than just luck— I’ve always suspected that some set of Colerain supporters— youth coaches, parents, alumni, and/or coaches— have been strongly “encouraging” these good football players in surrounding public school districts to find a way to transfer inside the Colerain district’s boundaries— but ALL we ever hear is “Woe is me! I’m poor lil’ Colerain, that just has to take whatever meager assortment of mediocre football players that washes up on my doorstep— and I have to compete against all of these Big, Rich, Awful Catholic schools— who all recruit away my best intra-district players!”

I’ve never believed that story for a minute— and I’ve been pretty convinced that it’s more than coincidence that one of the largest public HS’s in the state (Oak Hills) and, in fact, MOST of the other public school teams that surround Colerain (e.g.- Aiken, Western Hills, Taylor, Ross, Finneytown, North College Hill, etc.) have generally been pretty terrible— since Colerain became really good— though it wasn’t always that way... and yet, all we hear about is the alleged recruiting at X (and LaSalle— not going to argue that one), despite the fact that the student academic profiles at those surrounding public schools are much closer to Colerain’s than they are to X.... I think I KNOW where the real “athletic recruiting” is going on— and it AIN’T at X... Recruiter Extraordinaire Kerry Coombs started it 25+ years ago— and it’s never stopped since!
Every single word of this is utter nonsense...we lost a permanent coach a few years back because of recruiting violations. No way would the Colerain coaches, administration or athletic office EVER do what you are suggesting.

-CardinalsFan
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  #128  
Old 11-13-17, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
economically unsuccessful ethnic groups will dominate the sport— because they will (delusionally) see it as one of the best ways out of their depressed economic circumstances.
Uhhh...WOW!

-CardinalsFan
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  #129  
Old 11-13-17, 12:54 AM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by CardinalsFan View Post
Uhhh...WOW!

-CardinalsFan
Yep— surprised that you seem surprised— boxing is bad for your (brain) health too— and that’s who’s left/involved/dominant in that sport— there’s really nothing controversial about the projection... I let my kid play (some years ago)— but I would not do so today, knowing what I know now...
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  #130  
Old 11-13-17, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Yep— surprised that you seem surprised— boxing is bad for your (brain) health too— and that’s who’s left/involved/dominant in that sport— there’s really nothing controversial about the projection... I let my kid play (some years ago)— but I would not do so today, knowing what I know now...
Uh...no, I certainly understand the science behind it. What I was generally surprised by was your, nevermind....not worth it. Sorry to have brought it up.

-CardinalsFan
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  #131  
Old 11-13-17, 01:12 AM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by CardinalsFan View Post
Uh...no, I certainly understand the science behind it. What I was generally surprised by was your, nevermind....not worth it. Sorry to have brought it up.

-CardinalsFan
Yes— I guess we should instead tiptoe around the facts of the situation on some kind of politically-correct, dainty little cat paws— and ignore the fact that something like 75% of the NFL are black athletes already— and that percentage is only likely to grow in coming years— as the mothers of the Luke Keuchleys of the world learn from their mistakes...
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  #132  
Old 11-13-17, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Yes— I guess we should instead tiptoe around the facts of the situation on some kind of politically-correct, dainty little cat paws— and ignore the fact that something like 75% of the NFL are black athletes already— and that percentage is only likely to grow in coming years— as the mothers of the Luke Keuchleys of the world learn from their mistakes...
White people are smart, black people are dumb?

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  #133  
Old 11-13-17, 08:08 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Before this thread goes someplace no one wants it to go, here is what I will say about Colerain and their success.

They have the right combination of coaching, geography, winning tradition, hard-nosed players willing to put in the work, high-end athletes, and the volume of players to be successful. Those factors all contribute. Very few, if any Ohio schools (public or private) can match this over the past 25 years.

Just like any successful program with these attributes, they do attract some talent willing to go out of their way to play for the Cards but you cant really blame these kids. Would you rather play for Northwest, Ross, Mt Healthy, Finneytown, St Bernard, Roger Bacon, CPS, Winton Woods, etc. or Colerain? They are like a GCL team in many ways and have several advantages over GCL schools...

Strong local league (better schedule) > Moe, X, Elder
Talent in its Geography> Elder
Location > Elder
Facility> Moeller
Coaching > LaSalle/Moeller
Consistency > Elder, LaSalle, Moeller
Athletes > X, Moe, LaSalle, Elder
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  #134  
Old 11-13-17, 12:23 PM
Ginger_jesus Ginger_jesus is offline
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Originally Posted by Termite2 View Post
It's pretty obvious why Colerain is so good -Little Cards is a catholic run organization and not a public school organization
clearly you know nothing of the Little Cards program.....
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  #135  
Old 11-13-17, 12:24 PM
Ginger_jesus Ginger_jesus is offline
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Originally Posted by westsidebomber View Post
do you have any proof that private schools recruit athletes to play sports? Do you have proof that they offer cheaper tuition based on athletic prowess?
yes!!!!!!
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  #136  
Old 11-13-17, 12:40 PM
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Speaking for Mentor, they have a lot of things going their way. He isn't perfect, but you have to start with Triv. For the most part, Mentor was pretty ordinary (or worse) throughout most of the 70's, 80's, and 90's. It wasn't until Triv that the program became what they did. In the early 2000's, it was the commitment to the spread, no-huddle, quick strike offense that got the attention. The development of QB's by Triv, his offensive coaches, and especially long-time QB coach Janiak have been a huge difference maker in the progress of Mentor. I don't think any big school program in Ohio can compare to the quantity of high-end QB play that Mentor has gotten since 2000. The overall offensive coaching has been excellent. Mentor has a strong youth program that builds into the middle school program. Aligning the middle school with the high school philosophy has been a consistent help over the years. Mentor does have a high population, but so do a lot of other schools. The "type" of athlete at Mentor isn't probably that unique to other big suburban schools, but maybe there is something to that too.

And yet, after all of the many great seasons over the past 15-20 years, the two teams combined for less state titles than Hilliard Davidson. HD doesn't have the number of quantity of good seasons that Mentor/Colerain have had, but I think almost every fan (certainly every Mentor fan) of these two schools would trade their successes with the success of HD football.
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  #137  
Old 11-13-17, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Do you have any proof that private schools recruit athletes to play sports? Do you have proof that they offer cheaper tuition based on athletic prowess?

Like the poster a few months back stated, it is not appropriate to specifically name families that may be getting financial help. With that said... You have to be very naive to think there are not students walking the halls in Private schools that may not have met admittance testing requirements, or, could have a reduction in tuition or no tuition with grants or scholarships.

Most private schools offer scholarships to bring in diversity to the campus. (The non traditional student). Most of these students are involved in the complete educational experience that includes a variety of extracurricular activities.

You also have to keep in mind this is NOT a local issue or even an Ohio issue...It is a National issue with KY,MI,NJ,NY and IND (just to name a few) all struggling with the private/public athletic issues.

This article pretty much sums it up.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook.../#ab4159c3d9ab
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  #138  
Old 11-13-17, 07:21 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Colerain & Mentor: Whats the secret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
Like the poster a few months back stated it is not appropriate to specifically name families that may be getting financial help.With that said... You have to be very naive to think there are not students walking the halls in Private schools that may not have met admittance testing requirements, or, could have a reduction in tuition or no tuition with grants or scholorships.

Most private schools offer scholarships to bring in diversity to the campus. (The non traditional student).



This is NOT a local issue or even an Ohio issue...



This article pretty much sums it up.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook.../#ab4159c3d9ab

I got a “grant” to go to X. So does a large portion of the student body. I’m not the one being naive. I can assure you it is not for athletics. If you know of specific instances of recruiting specific kids specifically for athletic purposes, why not report it to OHSAA?
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  #139  
Old 11-13-17, 07:38 PM
raising4daughters raising4daughters is offline
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Recruiting?

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Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
Do you have any proof that private schools recruit athletes to play sports? Do you have proof that they offer cheaper tuition based on athletic prowess?
This is a non-sensical argument. Of course private schools recruit as they don't have a captive audience of residents who, unless they attend a private school, must attend the district's public school.

I hope no one seriously believes that the private schools only reach out to candidates after they've made a formal application to attend. Any contact with a student pre-application would, by definition, be recruiting. That's not a complaint; I'd suggest that private schools must recruit simply to survive. In fact, I'd even suggest the competition between privates is keener than between publics and privates.

The basis of the never-ending private vs. public debate should focus on advantages. No two privates are the same. No one complains about Cleveland Central Catholic or Walsh Jesuit, for example, in football.

I think the competitive balance factors recently introduced helped in the divisions below 1, but many publics stuck in D1 have 2/3 - 3/4 the student body of Sts. Xavier and Ignatius. Mentor, Colerain, Whitmer, and some others can probably overcome, but i doubt Stow can on a consistent basis.

I think the last step to leveling the playing field would be to have a Super D1 with 24-32 teams. Take the lower half of the current D1s (size, etc. wise) and merge them with D2 and cascade the effect downward.

Then we don't have to talk about recruiting or not. It's pointless.
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  #140  
Old 11-13-17, 07:41 PM
HSFB Fan HSFB Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestSideBomber View Post
I got a “grant” to go to X. So does a large portion of the student body. I’m not the one being naive. I can assure you it is not for athletics. If you know of specific instances of recruiting specific kids specifically for athletic purposes, why not report it to OHSAA?
Why? OHSAA is not interested in addressing enrolment issues outside of writing rules. Heck, they struggle to even follow up on transfer issues.
The way it works is if a complaint is filed OHSAA will contact the AD of the school in question as well as the students past school AD. Someone will do a short investigation (sometimes only a phone call to the family) that generally have been coached on how to respond. With some transfers they may do a home visit but that is rare.

Again, I know you as well as others at public schools do not want to recognize that schools public or private have students that find their way in and are playing sports (Not just Football) outside of the bylaws http://ohsaa.org/Eligibility/Recruiting

There are not a lot of them and they may not even be starters or even varsity players but they are out there.
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  #141  
Old 11-13-17, 07:41 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by raising4daughters View Post
This is a non-sensical argument. Of course private schools recruit as they don't have a captive audience of residents who, unless they attend a private school, must attend the district's public school.



I hope no one seriously believes that the private schools only reach out to candidates after they've made a formal application to attend. Any contact with a student pre-application would, by definition, be recruiting. That's not a complaint; I'd suggest that private schools must recruit simply to survive.



The basis of the never-ending private vs. public debate should focus on advantages. No two privates are the same. No one complains about Cleveland Central Catholic, for example.



I think the competitive balance factors recently introduced helped in the divisions below 1, but many publics stuck in D1 have 2/3 - 3/4 the student body of Sts. Xavier and Ignatius. Mentor, Colerain, Whitmer, and some others can probably overcome, but i doubt Stow can on a consistent basis.



I think the last step to leveling the playing field would be to have a Super D1 with 24-32 teams. Take the lower half of the current D1s (size, etc. wise) and merge them with D2 and cascade the effect downward.



Then we don't have to talk about recruiting or not. It's pointless.

In a different thread I did make the point that of course private schools “recruit” their student bodies. They have to. However, there is a difference between saying “hey come check out our open house” and “hey we need you to play QB come to our school and we’ll waive tuition.” The former happens. The latter does not.
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  #142  
Old 11-13-17, 07:42 PM
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They have this

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Congrats to both schools on their victories and regional final appearances.Both are facing D-1 privates Friday.Colerain /X......Mentor/ Ignatius.Both have scheduled privates in the regular season....and won.Both have beaten members of the Power 5(Iggy,Ed's,X,Moeller,Elder) in the playoffs this year and in the past.What do these schools do that the rest of the D-1 publics could learn from?It's gotta be something to have sustained success for this long.I didn't forget Wayne,Pickerington,Hilliard Davidson,Toledo Whittmer,etc,etc.It's just that these two schools never seem off the radar.
They have the support of the district which allows them to be good every year.
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  #143  
Old 11-13-17, 07:45 PM
WestSideBomber WestSideBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
Why? OHSAA is not interested in addressing enrolment issues outside of writing rules. Heck, they struggle to even follow up on transfer issues.
The way it works is if a complaint is filed OHSAA will contact the AD of the school in question as well as the students past school AD. Someone will do a short investigation (sometimes only a phone call to the family) that generally have been coached on how to respond. With some transfers they may do a home visit but that is rare.

Again, I know you as well as others at public schools do not want to recognize that schools public or private have students that find their way in and are playing sports (Not just Football) outside of the bylaws http://ohsaa.org/Eligibility/Recruiting

There are not a lot of them and they may not even be starters or even varsity players but they are out there.

So, I’ll ask again...do you actually have proof of a private school recruiting a specific kid to play a specific sport? Cause it sure sounds like all you have is the standard “well they must be cheating somehow!”
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  #144  
Old 11-13-17, 07:46 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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I agree to a point, but reality is Colerain is a football school. For whatever reason they never go after top notch coaches for other sports. Back in the day their baseball, softball, girls soccer, track and cross country did well. Football is everything now at Colerain and they start young. These kids come up in a system that is second nature to them when they get to high school. No other Colerain sport does this or can do this because of club sports etc. Colerain is what Oak Hills and others should model themselves after in regards to football. We all see the speed and athleticism the football team has, I blame the AD for not hiring better coaches for track, basketball etc. You can’t tell me these kids are only talented on the football field. It’s solid, consistent football coaching from the youth up that gives the football team the advantage.
You are 100% correct, if it was important to the Colerain admin they would have great coaches in other sports and be successful. The girls CC was fantastic. Two of the best pitchers in the City pitched for Colerain this year and when they pitched, the team won. I am firmly convinced that if a school makes it a priority, they can and will have a good program.
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  #145  
Old 11-13-17, 07:53 PM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Originally Posted by HSFB Fan View Post
Like the poster a few months back stated, it is not appropriate to specifically name families that may be getting financial help. With that said... You have to be very naive to think there are not students walking the halls in Private schools that may not have met admittance testing requirements, or, could have a reduction in tuition or no tuition with grants or scholarships.

Most private schools offer scholarships to bring in diversity to the campus. (The non traditional student). Most of these students are involved in the complete educational experience that includes a variety of extracurricular activities.

You also have to keep in mind this is NOT a local issue or even an Ohio issue...It is a National issue with KY,MI,NJ,NY and IND (just to name a few) all struggling with the private/public athletic issues.

This article pretty much sums it up.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook.../#ab4159c3d9ab
Not at X. If it ever got out that a student was getting "special" academic help because he was a diversity candidate or worse because he was a great athlete or even a great actor, the feces would hit the fan. There are way too many alums that have not had their boys get in because of academic qualifications to have this ever happen. AGAIN, X DOES NOT RECRUIT ATHLETES AND GIVE THEM MONETARY ADVANTAGE FOR SAID ATHLETIC SKILL. The Alumni would go crazy.
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  #146  
Old 11-13-17, 08:25 PM
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In my opinion Colerain has been successful for so many years due to outstanding coaching and the perfect demographic storm. When I say the perfect demographic storm I'm referring to those who live in the country, those who live in Northbrook, those who are living in Skyline Acres, and everyone in between.

Who else has such a great pool of tough kids?
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  #147  
Old 11-13-17, 08:29 PM
DonMagicRon DonMagicRon is offline
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In my opinion Colerain has been successful for so many years due to outstanding coaching and the perfect demographic storm. When I say the perfect demographic storm I'm referring to those who live in the country, those who live in Northbrook, those who are living in Skyline Acres, and everyone in between.

Who else has such a great pool of tough kids?
Fairfield
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  #148  
Old 11-13-17, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
White people are smart, black people are dumb?

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Your words-- not mine. People who take unwise risks with their mental health/faculties are (by definition) unwise-- people who try to protect their mental faculties (with suitable precautions) are wise to do so... The sport of boxing is very damaging to participants' mental faculties-- look at who participates (in the modern era) in boxing (which used to be one of the three most popular sports in America, along with baseball and horseracing)-- and you will see who is likely to participate in the sport of football, as time progresses (now that we more fully understand the risks that playing football poses to participants' mental faculties)-- unless the technology that protects football players against brain injury experiences a quantum leap sometime soon...

Right now, you have all kinds of misinformed and/or uninformed people walking around thinking that some kind of miracle new helmet (or a greater emphasis on "proper tackling technique") is going to solve this problem in football-- when any neurologist will readily explain why none of these measures (short of switching to two-hand touch) is likely to do much of anything to solve the problem-- because it's not just the big, eye-catching hits (that cause major concussions) that are causing CTE-- it's ALL the little impacts that occur on every single play, on the line, or on ordinary, unremarkable tackles. Your brain is like a ripe, full peach inside a fluid-filled tin can-- and every time you rapidly decelerate your head, your brain sloshes through that fluid, and bounces off the inside of that can, and bruises your brain a little bit (to a greater or lesser amount). No amount of extra cushioning on the OUTSIDE of the helmet, nor any increased emphasis on "head-up tackling" is going to avert that bouncing of your peach/brain off the inside of your can/skull, every time you experience a rapid deceleration, after a quick, sudden movement (whether of one step or a running start).

X has been helping test a new helmet/collar design which is supposed to somehow tighten up that gap inside the wearer's skull (between the brain and inside of the skull), by (I believe) driving up the fluid pressure in the skull-- modeled on the organic structure that woodpeckers have apparently naturally evolved to protect their brains against the repeated, rapid brain decelerations that they experience when pounding their beaks into trees-- this helmet/neck-collar combo is supposed to reduce the "sloshing effect" between the brain and the inside of the skull (sort of like bracing or strapping the brain in tight, INSIDE the skull), so that the brain can't go bouncing off the inside of the skull, when the head is rapidly decelerated in a collision... But count me as very skeptical that this kind of protective mechanism can be artificially reproduced in human heads.
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  #149  
Old 11-13-17, 08:39 PM
grappledude grappledude is offline
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Originally Posted by DonMagicRon View Post
Fairfield
Not even remotely close to what Colerain has.
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  #150  
Old 11-13-17, 08:46 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Your words-- not mine.
That was a question directed at you for clarification of what you're trying to say. Because all of your comments seem to dance around and say everything "like" that without ever actually saying those words so that you can keep your deniability, and instead say things like "your words, not mine."

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