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  #61  
Old 10-13-17, 08:20 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Obviously Taco doesn't watch the Reds broadcasts, he just trolls on message boards and slams other peoples opinions on things they know more about than he does...
Well that isn't true. You know I slam your opinion because you are absolutely wrong on everything you post about.
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  #62  
Old 10-13-17, 08:22 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Contrary to your opinion, which few share, Billy has alot of value and the Reds certainly aren't going to give him away. He's an elite defensive player and possesses speed that few have in baseball. His inability to get on base is an issue, but as I've said here dozens of times, when he's on base, he's a treat to score more than just about anyone else in the game.
Contrary to your opinion, Billy isn't that valuable. If he was teams would be offering god father deals for him. He would be a great 4th outfielder and pinch runner. Yes, I'm aware he is an elite defensive player and possesses speed that few have in baseball. I've already said that in this thread. Try learning to read. As I've said on here dozens of time, it doesn't matter if he's a treat to score if he can't get on base.
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  #63  
Old 10-13-17, 12:49 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Contrary to your opinion, Billy isn't that valuable. If he was teams would be offering god father deals for him. He would be a great 4th outfielder and pinch runner. Yes, I'm aware he is an elite defensive player and possesses speed that few have in baseball. I've already said that in this thread. Try learning to read. As I've said on here dozens of time, it doesn't matter if he's a treat to score if he can't get on base.
The Reds are better with Winker or Ervin in the outfield especially if the saved dollars are spent on pitching.
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  #64  
Old 10-13-17, 08:59 PM
Gh0st Gh0st is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Contrary to your opinion, which few share, Billy has alot of value and the Reds certainly aren't going to give him away. He's an elite defensive player and possesses speed that few have in baseball. His inability to get on base is an issue, but as I've said here dozens of times, when he's on base, he's a treat to score more than just about anyone else in the game.
Unfortunately he gets on base less than just about anyone else in the game.
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  #65  
Old 10-14-17, 03:04 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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Originally Posted by Gh0st View Post
Unfortunately he gets on base less than just about anyone else in the game.
Yep.
Kind of like the big fat kid in Little League. You know, the guy who everybody would say "Boy, you should see it go when he gets a hold of one". Trouble is, he only got a hold of one about twice a year.
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  #66  
Old 10-16-17, 08:20 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Contrary to your opinion, Billy isn't that valuable. If he was teams would be offering god father deals for him. He would be a great 4th outfielder and pinch runner. Yes, I'm aware he is an elite defensive player and possesses speed that few have in baseball. I've already said that in this thread. Try learning to read. As I've said on here dozens of time, it doesn't matter if he's a treat to score if he can't get on base.
So you must be in favor of giving him away? Look, all you do is troll on here and criticize others opinions, so which is it. You want to trade Billy and get some windfall in return, but you also say he's not valuable? Which is it?

And as I've said on here many, many times...Billy does score as much as many guys who get on base alot more than he does. The goal is to score, not get on base. You don't get credit for being stranded on base.
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  #67  
Old 10-16-17, 09:22 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
So you must be in favor of giving him away? Look, all you do is troll on here and criticize others opinions, so which is it. You want to trade Billy and get some windfall in return, but you also say he's not valuable? Which is it?

And as I've said on here many, many times...Billy does score as much as many guys who get on base alot more than he does. The goal is to score, not get on base. You don't get credit for being stranded on base.
Yes, I have said multiple times I have in favor of trading Billy Hamilton. Look, I know you know nothing about anything yet somehow find a way to have an opinion but learn to read, 14. I said contrary to your opinion, Billy isn't that valuable. I also never said I expected some windfall. I said I expected a youngish, reliable bullpen arm. I'm not asking for an elite closer, a #1 or #2 starter or an All Star outfielder. In the scenario I suggested: the Yankees seem like ideal trading partner. They have 35 year old CF Jacoby Ellsbury. They also have 3 bullpen guys who are 29 and 2 who are 26 (and a few more guys who saw less action but posted solid numbers) at least at the start of the season. I don't know how high the Yankees are on someone like Chasen Shreve, Jonathan Holder or Luis Cessa but those are guys I'd gladly take from them. The Yankees might like having an elite defensive CF to spell old man Ellsbury and someone who can pinch run for them in tight playoffs games + throw in a minor league prospect of some sorts.

Yes, the goal is to score. The problem is you can't score if you can't get on base.

Last edited by Taco MacArthur; 10-16-17 at 09:36 AM..
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  #68  
Old 10-16-17, 11:49 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Yes, I have said multiple times I have in favor of trading Billy Hamilton. Look, I know you know nothing about anything yet somehow find a way to have an opinion but learn to read, 14. I said contrary to your opinion, Billy isn't that valuable. I also never said I expected some windfall. I said I expected a youngish, reliable bullpen arm. I'm not asking for an elite closer, a #1 or #2 starter or an All Star outfielder. In the scenario I suggested: the Yankees seem like ideal trading partner. They have 35 year old CF Jacoby Ellsbury. They also have 3 bullpen guys who are 29 and 2 who are 26 (and a few more guys who saw less action but posted solid numbers) at least at the start of the season. I don't know how high the Yankees are on someone like Chasen Shreve, Jonathan Holder or Luis Cessa but those are guys I'd gladly take from them. The Yankees might like having an elite defensive CF to spell old man Ellsbury and someone who can pinch run for them in tight playoffs games + throw in a minor league prospect of some sorts.

Yes, the goal is to score. The problem is you can't score if you can't get on base.
And the Indians had their starting 2nd baseman most of the season in centerfield for the playoffs. Many teams don't see the defensive value of having Billy that I do.
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  #69  
Old 10-16-17, 01:03 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
And the Indians had their starting 2nd baseman most of the season in centerfield for the playoffs. Many teams don't see the defensive value of having Billy that I do.
That's because you overvalue Billy Hamilton. But way to deflect from the entire point of the post.
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  #70  
Old 10-16-17, 01:40 PM
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And the Indians had their starting 2nd baseman most of the season in centerfield for the playoffs. Many teams don't see the defensive value of having Billy that I do.
No duh.
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  #71  
Old 10-16-17, 01:59 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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And the Indians had their starting 2nd baseman most of the season in centerfield for the playoffs. Many teams don't see the defensive value of having Billy that I do.
Not at all, you mentioned the Yankees have a 35 year old centerfielder, and I simply trumped that saying the Indians don't even put an outfielder in centerfielder, which makes 0 sense to me.

As I've posted on here many, many times...up the middle, catcher, short, 2nd, centerfield - I'm defensive oriented. But your bats in the corner outfield and corner infield.
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  #72  
Old 10-16-17, 02:03 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Watching Judge and Bryant struggle so much at the plate just makes me appreciate Joey so much more. These guys who just swing for the fences every swing annoy me. Choke and poke, put the ball in play.

It's really sad baseball has devalued the strikeout. Judge looks completely lost at the plate.
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  #73  
Old 10-16-17, 02:13 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Choke and poke . This is a family forum, geez.
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  #74  
Old 10-16-17, 02:38 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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14Red is so confused he's talking to himself.
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  #75  
Old 10-16-17, 02:44 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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14red likes it when the ball is in play because a lot can happen.
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  #76  
Old 10-16-17, 03:13 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Just read a report from Mark Sheldon that Brandon Finnigan is completely healthy and expects to be ready for spring training in '18.
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  #77  
Old 10-16-17, 03:13 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
14red likes it when the ball is in play because a lot can happen.
As opposed to strikeouts, because nothing happens then.
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  #78  
Old 10-16-17, 03:14 PM
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Exactly.
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  #79  
Old 10-16-17, 05:10 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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How can you read his name so many times yet still spell it wrong. It's Finnegan
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  #80  
Old 10-16-17, 07:03 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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How can you read his name so many times yet still spell it wrong. It's Finnegan
There was an angry old Colerain guy who used to post on here. He spelled Johnny Cueto's name incorrectly for his entire eight year career here.
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  #81  
Old 10-16-17, 09:08 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Gocards?
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  #82  
Old 10-16-17, 10:01 PM
Sig Hansen Sig Hansen is offline
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That's the one
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  #83  
Old 10-17-17, 06:36 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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As opposed to strikeouts, because nothing happens then.
14Red gets a boner any time someone mentions Billy Hamilton because of his defense. 14Red also hates when pitchers are really good at pitching, a form of defense, and strike out batters.
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  #84  
Old 10-17-17, 10:25 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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How can you read his name so many times yet still spell it wrong. It's Finnegan
Sorry, thanks for the correction point. I'll try to do better.
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  #85  
Old 10-17-17, 10:27 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
14Red gets a boner any time someone mentions Billy Hamilton because of his defense. 14Red also hates when pitchers are really good at pitching, a form of defense, and strike out batters.
He passed my eye ball test. When you see the plays he makes, game after game, It's easy to appreciate that.

In Cueto's heyday, I really enjoyed watching him pitch, it's such an artform. Add a little, take a little off...
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  #86  
Old 10-17-17, 12:05 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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And the Indians had their starting 2nd baseman most of the season in centerfield for the playoffs. Many teams don't see the defensive value of having Billy that I do.
And exactly how many runs did Kipnis in CF cost them? zero. A superior OF like Billy versus an average OF (like Kipnis) is only a small number of runs saved per year. Defense in the OF is great and important, but it is far less important than having an OF that produces offensively. Defensive skill trumps offense at C and SS only, IMO.
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  #87  
Old 10-17-17, 03:42 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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And exactly how many runs did Kipnis in CF cost them? zero. A superior OF like Billy versus an average OF (like Kipnis) is only a small number of runs saved per year. Defense in the OF is great and important, but it is far less important than having an OF that produces offensively. Defensive skill trumps offense at C and SS only, IMO.
Just curious, did you have the same opinion when Adam Dunn was in Left Field?
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  #88  
Old 10-17-17, 06:43 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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I think they'll reach .500... More than likely, 2 seasons away from being serious playoff contenders.
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  #89  
Old 10-18-17, 08:40 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
And exactly how many runs did Kipnis in CF cost them? zero. A superior OF like Billy versus an average OF (like Kipnis) is only a small number of runs saved per year. Defense in the OF is great and important, but it is far less important than having an OF that produces offensively. Defensive skill trumps offense at C and SS only, IMO.
How can you make such a statement?? Do you know how many more balls Billy can get to in the gaps than a normal centerfield can? You then can play our right and left fielders closer to the fouls lines and cover more ground.

You have 0 idea how many balls got down in center because Kipnis was there rather than a legit centerfielder. This isn't slow pitch softball. Kipnis was 4/22 in the series, 0 runs, 1 RBI. Now if he at least hit, I could possibly see putting your starting 2nd baseman out there. This is Francona trying to be too cute. Managers over think things alot. Maddon doing the same thing with the Cubs.
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  #90  
Old 10-18-17, 08:48 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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So folks, the Reds have a big decision coming up. Zack Cozart, coming off his best season ever, is a free agent. The Reds can sign him to a one year qualifying offer for a little over $17 mill (for reference, he made just a little over $5 mill this year, and has made, in total thorugh 6 season, $12 mill in his career). Now the Reds CAN offer this, and Zack can refuse and go free agency, if he's signed for such and such money, the Reds get compensatory picks and stuff alot more complicated that Obamacare.

Honestly, I really like Cozart, and the Reds don't have drop dead replacement for him, but I just can't see giving Cozart, at age 33, that much money. I'm banking that he'll never play as well as he did in 2017, and more than likely would not get any kind of offer like this around baseball. I'm also concerned that his leg will never heal. He's gimped around with this leg now for 2 full seasons.

Wish him all the best, but there is no way the Reds could do this. Now, if Cozart is unemployed in February, and would want to come back to Cincy for say 3 years, $25 mill??? I'd do that.
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