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  #91  
Old 10-06-17, 10:08 PM
UnTouchableVoL33 UnTouchableVoL33 is offline
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Originally Posted by UnTouchableVoL33 View Post
Projections

Deer Park 20
Finneytown 14

Wyoming 49
Madeira 12

Indian Hill 41
Taylor 0

Reading 28
Mariemont 20
finals

Deer Park 14
Finneytown 7

Wyoming 31
Madeira 14

Indian Hill 49
Taylor 0

Reading 23
Mariemont 21

id say i still got it
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  #92  
Old 10-06-17, 10:29 PM
BaBa au Rum BaBa au Rum is offline
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Originally Posted by yappimember67 View Post
A win tonight and Mariemont likely finishes at 7-3. Does that get them into the playoffs? 8-2 didn't last year.

That 1 point loss to Oakwood at the beginning of the season may hurt them.
To quote Dennis Greene ' Playoffs? Playoffs? Are we talking about PLAYOFFS?

Mariemont will NOT make the playoffs, just as Cummins brother at Ross will NOT make the playoffs! EVER!
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  #93  
Old 10-06-17, 11:43 PM
Cantrell Cantrell is offline
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I was wrong Reading won 23-21. Monster game by Reading's Mancini Jackson. He was the best player on the field by far. Caught 3 td passes.
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  #94  
Old 10-07-17, 12:09 AM
jtk jtk is offline
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Originally Posted by BaBa au Rum View Post
To quote Dennis Greene ' Playoffs? Playoffs? Are we talking about PLAYOFFS?

Mariemont will NOT make the playoffs, just as Cummins brother at Ross will NOT make the playoffs! EVER!
what do you have against the cummins bros. lol?

jtk
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  #95  
Old 10-07-17, 06:05 AM
BaBa au Rum BaBa au Rum is offline
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what do you have against the cummins bros. lol?

jtk
()
Just a dig in Ross. I wasn't even 100% sure they're brothers.
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  #96  
Old 10-13-17, 12:33 PM
tonka tonka is offline
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Does Reading have any chance against Wyoming?
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  #97  
Old 10-13-17, 10:15 PM
Cantrell Cantrell is offline
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The Reading -Wyoming game could have been 21-14 Wyoming at the half. It was 21-7. Reading has got to score when they have a chance. Turned it over on downs inside the 10. Wyoming took the 2nd half kick off and scored. I think Reading ended up turning the ball over 5 times. You had a running clock for the last 6 minutes.
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  #98  
Old 10-21-17, 09:51 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by Ilsco View Post
Agree on the increase in good kickers in the league. I think a lot of that has to do with soccer players regularly kicking for the football teams in the respective coaching staffs getting along. Mariemont had a short kid who played soccer a few years ago who could crush the ball. I remember watching him hit three field goals in a game as a freshman or sophomore all over 40 yards. Langrabe had one of the strongest legs I have ever seen and he was also a very good soccer player. Perry, Lunberg and the kid from Reading Are also very good soccer players and Mariemont's current kicker played soccer until this year . Very cool to see
I guess it's no surprise teams in this league are able to find good kickers. There's no CHL soccer thread so I'll throw this out here: through two rounds of the state tournament no CHL school has lost to anyone outside the league--they've won all nine games against non-CHL schools by a combined score of 61-2.
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  #99  
Old 10-22-17, 07:33 AM
MooseJaw MooseJaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
I guess it's no surprise teams in this league are able to find good kickers. There's no CHL soccer thread so I'll throw this out here: through two rounds of the state tournament no CHL school has lost to anyone outside the league--they've won all nine games against non-CHL schools by a combined score of 61-2.
And that right there is a big part of the reason why CHL football teams rarely make a deep run in the playoffs. Small schools need all athletes on board the football team to compete. So many chl communities lose too many kids to soccer at an early age. When they start playing the Coldwaters/Clinton Massies and private schools in the playoffs they are out manned. Those type of schools have 70 kids on their rosters. Even having 3/4 more good athletes on a small school team can make a big difference.
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  #100  
Old 10-22-17, 08:37 AM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by MooseJaw View Post
And that right there is a big part of the reason why CHL football teams rarely make a deep run in the playoffs. Small schools need all athletes on board the football team to compete. So many chl communities lose too many kids to soccer at an early age. When they start playing the Coldwaters/Clinton Massies and private schools in the playoffs they are out manned. Those type of schools have 70 kids on their rosters. Even having 3/4 more good athletes on a small school team can make a big difference.

There might be a little bit of truth in that statement (I note that Steubenville does not even offer a boys' soccer team)-- but it is more about the fact that Wyo and IH don't PLAY ANYBODY during the year (their league absolutely STINKS, so that is 6 guaranteed cripples every year)-- and neither one of them is willing to play any of the OBVIOUS playoff caliber teams (Clinton-Massie, Alter, Alder, Valley View, Trotwood, etc.) in their area, in their non-league schedule-- so both of them are always stunned and amazed, like deer in the headlights, when the end of season rolls around, and they face real competition on the field, for the first time... and of course they get rolled...

Soccer is not the problem-- Wyo has plenty of kids-- and plenty good enough athletes-- out there... they just don't know how to deal with good competition, because they never play any-- they aren't toughened up enough, their line play wears down quickly (because their games are mostly over by the mid-second quarter, in the regular season), and they always get run over on the lines, when they face teams that play good competition.

Notice that Alter (which is technically the same size in numbers of boys as Wyo and probably smaller than IH) has no problem fielding a great soccer team-- AND a much better football team than Wyo-- soccer (and a bunch of other sports) is not stopping Alter from building a tough team that can run the ball down opponents' throat-- and that does not tire out early in the second half, due to lack of: conditioning, toughness, coaching, and facing adversity from good opposition.

Complaining about soccer-- and kids playing it-- is a football whiners' game-- and not deserving of any credibility-- if kids want to play soccer, that is their right-- and nobody should criticize it-- football does not have a god-given right to have every boy in the school out for the team (any more than a public school district should go around acting like they have a right to enroll/field every kid who lives in their district-- and that private schools are stealing their birthright, when they enroll a good player)-- and it's a lame excuse anyway (as Alter's situation proves), so ignorant football zealots should just stop bringing it up.
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  #101  
Old 10-22-17, 08:44 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by MooseJaw View Post
And that right there is a big part of the reason why CHL football teams rarely make a deep run in the playoffs. Small schools need all athletes on board the football team to compete. So many chl communities lose too many kids to soccer at an early age. When they start playing the Coldwaters/Clinton Massies and private schools in the playoffs they are out manned. Those type of schools have 70 kids on their rosters. Even having 3/4 more good athletes on a small school team can make a big difference.
That's true of course. But I don't regret it. You've seen that sign on Winton Road listing the Finneytown state soccer championships? I don't think many of us would have traded those for a few extra football wins.

I'm happy the kids are playing something; it's not so important to me which sport they choose.
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  #102  
Old 10-22-17, 09:02 AM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by MooseJaw View Post
And that right there is a big part of the reason why CHL football teams rarely make a deep run in the playoffs. Small schools need all athletes on board the football team to compete. So many chl communities lose too many kids to soccer at an early age. When they start playing the Coldwaters/Clinton Massies and private schools in the playoffs they are out manned. Those type of schools have 70 kids on their rosters. Even having 3/4 more good athletes on a small school team can make a big difference.
One more thing-- it's not the total number of kids out there that matters-- most schools are really only playing about 25 guys, in competitive games (even X-- with over 100 kids on the roster, less than 30 really play and contribute in games)-- the CHL teams just have no endurance and toughhness-- hell, Wyo could go up and play the Div V, VI, and VII MAC schools (like Coldwater, Anna, Delphos, Maria Stein, etc.) and get rolled too-- and those schools are NOT going to be fielding more total guys on their roster than Wyo-- but they DO know what it's like to play good competition nearly every week-- and for more than one or two quarters in a game.
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  #103  
Old 10-22-17, 09:08 AM
cardinalsin cardinalsin is offline
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CHCA, and the Country Day schools need to be in the CHL. Finneytown, Deer Park and Taylor to the MVC. Be a heck of a league then. IMO.
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  #104  
Old 10-22-17, 09:52 AM
BusinessEnd BusinessEnd is offline
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CHL will never accept private schools into the league. They will cry 'recruiting' even as kids transfer into or come from private schools to enroll at CHL schools every year. The CHL would be a completely different league if they made that swap - CHCA, Summit & CCD for Deer Park, Taylor and Finneytown.
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  #105  
Old 10-22-17, 10:02 AM
MooseJaw MooseJaw is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
One more thing-- it's not the total number of kids out there that matters-- most schools are really only playing about 25 guys, in competitive games (even X-- with over 100 kids on the roster, less than 30 really play and contribute in games)-- the CHL teams just have no endurance and toughhness-- hell, Wyo could go up and play the Div V, VI, and VII MAC schools (like Coldwater, Anna, Delphos, Maria Stein, etc.) and get rolled too-- and those schools are NOT going to be fielding more total guys on their roster than Wyo-- but they DO know what it's like to play good competition nearly every week-- and for more than one or two quarters in a game.
Please tell me that you understand the numbers concept better than you just described? Obviously teams like X aren't playing 125 kids every game. Its all about the number of kids that you have to draw from and how many of those best athletes you can get on the field. I'ts also about depth. If your starting corner gets hurt you may be able to put in a not quite as good, but still physically mature Jr or Sr instead of a 135lb freshman.

The soccer thing is not an excuse - its a fact. I was in no way implying that kids shouldn't be able to play soccer I'm just saying that soccer is the main fall sport that directly competes with kids playing football. At smaller schools it's possible that you have a couple good athletes playing soccer that could make a big difference on the football team if they played. This doesn't happen at Coldwater since they don't have boys soccer. And don't even compare schools like Alter - kids go there specifically to play football or soccer.

Wyoming is the big fish in a small pond and I agree that they need to beef up their schedule to get more playoff ready. I think they have tried that in recent years to no avail.
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  #106  
Old 10-22-17, 10:11 AM
MooseJaw MooseJaw is offline
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Originally Posted by BusinessEnd View Post
CHL will never accept private schools into the league. They will cry 'recruiting' even as kids transfer into or come from private schools to enroll at CHL schools every year. The CHL would be a completely different league if they made that swap - CHCA, Summit & CCD for Deer Park, Taylor and Finneytown.
With the exception of Deer park basketball recently, what kids have been pouring into the CHL recently to play sports? Not so much CCD, but CHCA and Summit are without a doubt "recruiting" and offering scholarships to players on a regular basis. If you don't think that's an advantage you are high. I don't blame the kids or the parents though. If my kid is a good athlete and lives in a sh###y school district and Summit says you can come here and get a $20,000/yr education for free I'd do it.
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  #107  
Old 10-22-17, 12:53 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by MooseJaw View Post
Please tell me that you understand the numbers concept better than you just described? Obviously teams like X aren't playing 125 kids every game. Its all about the number of kids that you have to draw from and how many of those best athletes you can get on the field. I'ts also about depth. If your starting corner gets hurt you may be able to put in a not quite as good, but still physically mature Jr or Sr instead of a 135lb freshman.

The soccer thing is not an excuse - its a fact. I was in no way implying that kids shouldn't be able to play soccer I'm just saying that soccer is the main fall sport that directly competes with kids playing football. At smaller schools it's possible that you have a couple good athletes playing soccer that could make a big difference on the football team if they played. This doesn't happen at Coldwater since they don't have boys soccer. And don't even compare schools like Alter - kids go there specifically to play football or soccer.

Wyoming is the big fish in a small pond and I agree that they need to beef up their schedule to get more playoff ready. I think they have tried that in recent years to no avail.
Yes, I think I understand "the numbers concept" quite well-- and yes, the big schools can put in somebody (generally) better than the small schools can, when somebody goes down (didn't stop X from ending up playing a barely 200 lb. kid at center last year against Ig-- and getting their heads handed to them because of it-- that's a key difference-- X, Moe, Ig, Ed-- they are playing much better, deeper teams than Wyo and IH are, when they lose people-- so they HAVE to have somebody decent to slug in there, or they DO end up getting murdered, like X did last year against Ig, when X lost 3 starting OL men by the first game)...

I can't (and won't) speak for the other 6 teams in the CHL-- they've (mostly) been sorry for two decades or more-- so that doesn't really have any bearing on my comments-- but Wyo has PLENTY of talent, for the level that they are playing at-- their problem is not depth (vs. the Coldwater, Massie, Alter, VV, and Alders of their world)-- their problem is they don't prepare properly for that level of challenge, all throughout their season-- they get exactly what they prepare for.

Finally, I don't know if kids go to Alter specifically/only to play football and soccer-- Carroll has been better than Alter (most years) in soccer, so i would think if that was the draw there, Alter would have been more dominant. Also, Dayton HS football is dominated by publics not privates (HH Wayne, Centerville, Northmont), so that doesn't seem that plausible to me there either...

I know that public school (sports) zealots regularly overstate how many kids go to private schools for sports-- I went to X for academics and because of legacy considerations (and no one ever recruited me for ANYTHING)-- as did probably 95% of my classmates-- the only kids I ever saw or met at X that I really thought came for the sports were the swimmers-- and they were truly Dominant! Yes, Moeller is filled with kids who are there first and foremost because of sports-- but with Alter having shrunk to being a puny Division IV school (now III, because of OHSAA CB calcs), it's pretty hard to say that kids are going there just so they can claim to be king of that little (mole) hill-- it's still a pretty small fish in a really small pond, if trumpeting superiority in athletics is your goal-- they are never likely to be better than Wayne, Centerville, or Northmont-- most of the kids that star for Alter (in football) are NOT college Div. I material. So if sports are really your thing in Dayton, why wouldn't you go to one of those big boy schools.
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  #108  
Old 10-22-17, 01:26 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
as did probably 95% of my classmates
That percentage sounds about right. At a school of 1500 boys that would leave 75 students at a time that are there specifically for athletics--more than enough to soak up most of the playing time in 3-5 sports per quarter.
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  #109  
Old 10-22-17, 01:48 PM
4GX 4GX is offline
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That percentage sounds about right. At a school of 1500 boys that would leave 75 students at a time that are there specifically for athletics--more than enough to soak up most of the playing time in 3-5 sports per quarter.
Yep, SOAK UP is the right term-- when I was there, the school was ~1100-- and so 5% was ~55 kids-- with about 50 on the swim team-- who generally only played one other sport (water polo)-- so that left about 5 kids who were there for either golf or tennis (like [our current QB] Wolf's dad-- who was a star tennis player-- oh, no wait-- he WASN'T there just for sports-- he was there because HIS DAD was a St. X Conqueror-- before they were Bombers-- so, no, the Wolfs have all been there because THEY TOO are legacies, not sports sellouts-- the highest-ranked athlete of the younger Wolfs did NOT EVEN GO TO X-- because he is so good at tennis that he started at Summit CD, and then ended up home-schooled, so that he could travel around the country for tournaments).

The bottom line, when I was there, NOBODY was at X expressly to play football, basketball, or baseball-- we weren't good enough to cause anybody to do that-- Moeller dominated football, Elder was dominant in baseball, and Elder had just won a couple of state championships in basketball too-- so, you wouldn't choose X for any of those things-- and to be honest, it's still true today-- you are at X for academics or legacy reasons-- not for football, baseball, and certainly not for basketball-- but you MIGHT be there for swimming. So your theory holds about as much water as the one that says kids are moving into the Wyoming school district expressly for sports (kind of the Richard Hall effect)-- yeah, it happens, but it is pretty rare-- both at Wyoming and at Alter, I'd bet.
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  #110  
Old 10-22-17, 01:54 PM
coltfan76 coltfan76 is offline
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If you don't think kids go to X to play football, you're not very smart.
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  #111  
Old 10-22-17, 02:10 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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When were you there? One of the guys I played basketball with in grade school went to X to play football. Probably a good decision too--I'm not sure he would have landed a D1 scholarship if he'd played at Finneytown and I can't imagine why he would have wanted to play at Ft anyway, given a choice. Soccer or basketball, sure. Football, no.

I assumed this wasn't unusual. I also don't know if his friends at X would ever have realized it was the case. He wouldn't likely have said "I'm here for the football," you only knew that was going on if you'd known him longer.
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  #112  
Old 10-22-17, 02:35 PM
rocketman82 rocketman82 is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Yes, I think I understand "the numbers concept" quite well-- and yes, the big schools can put in somebody (generally) better than the small schools can, when somebody goes down (didn't stop X from ending up playing a barely 200 lb. kid at center last year against Ig-- and getting their heads handed to them because of it-- that's a key difference-- X, Moe, Ig, Ed-- they are playing much better, deeper teams than Wyo and IH are, when they lose people-- so they HAVE to have somebody decent to slug in there, or they DO end up getting murdered, like X did last year against Ig, when X lost 3 starting OL men by the first game)...

I can't (and won't) speak for the other 6 teams in the CHL-- they've (mostly) been sorry for two decades or more-- so that doesn't really have any bearing on my comments-- but Wyo has PLENTY of talent, for the level that they are playing at-- their problem is not depth (vs. the Coldwater, Massie, Alter, VV, and Alders of their world)-- their problem is they don't prepare properly for that level of challenge, all throughout their season-- they get exactly what they prepare for.

Finally, I don't know if kids go to Alter specifically/only to play football and soccer-- Carroll has been better than Alter (most years) in soccer, so i would think if that was the draw there, Alter would have been more dominant. Also, Dayton HS football is dominated by publics not privates (HH Wayne, Centerville, Northmont), so that doesn't seem that plausible to me there either...

I know that public school (sports) zealots regularly overstate how many kids go to private schools for sports-- I went to X for academics and because of legacy considerations (and no one ever recruited me for ANYTHING)-- as did probably 95% of my classmates-- the only kids I ever saw or met at X that I really thought came for the sports were the swimmers-- and they were truly Dominant! Yes, Moeller is filled with kids who are there first and foremost because of sports-- but with Alter having shrunk to being a puny Division IV school (now III, because of OHSAA CB calcs), it's pretty hard to say that kids are going there just so they can claim to be king of that little (mole) hill-- it's still a pretty small fish in a really small pond, if trumpeting superiority in athletics is your goal-- they are never likely to be better than Wayne, Centerville, or Northmont-- most of the kids that star for Alter (in football) are NOT college Div. I material. So if sports are really your thing in Dayton, why wouldn't you go to one of those big boy schools.
Are you really that clueless to think kids do not go to Alter for football? Most years they could beat most of the teams you just listed. They draw from all over Dayton. Alter has division I athletes every year in football. Try actually knowing something about an argument before you make it.

Read this article for some perspective.
http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...mcQORdz530VCK/
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  #113  
Old 10-22-17, 02:37 PM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Moeller dominated football, Elder was dominant in baseball, and Elder had just won a couple of state championships in basketball too-- so, you wouldn't choose X for any of those things.
That's not a very convincing argument--you could use it to argue that no one goes to Indiana to play football or to Penn State to play basketball.
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  #114  
Old 10-22-17, 02:42 PM
MooseJaw MooseJaw is offline
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Are you really that clueless to think kids do not go to Alter for football? Most years they could beat most of the teams you just listed. They draw from all over Dayton. Alter has division I athletes every year in football. Try actually knowing something about an argument before you make it.
Just like no kids go to X for football either - only swimmers, lol....ridiculous. Seriously, you have to admit that it's, at a minimum, a factor in many kids decisions.
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  #115  
Old 10-22-17, 02:57 PM
rocketman82 rocketman82 is offline
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Originally Posted by MooseJaw View Post
Just like no kids go to X for football either - only swimmers, lol....ridiculous. Seriously, you have to admit that it's, at a minimum, a factor in many kids decisions.
I'm sure Darius Ashley didn't go to St. Xavier on his "opportunity" scholarship for football. Without him, they do not get a whiff of the 2007 State Championship.
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  #116  
Old 10-23-17, 03:10 AM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketman82 View Post
Are you really that clueless to think kids do not go to Alter for football? Most years they could beat most of the teams you just listed. They draw from all over Dayton. Alter has division I athletes every year in football. Try actually knowing something about an argument before you make it.

Read this article for some perspective.
http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/spo...mcQORdz530VCK/
I'd like to see those "most years" when Alter "could beat most of the teams" I listed (e.g.- Wayne, Centerville, Northmont)-- why don't they play them then-- Alter has enough of a challenge beating the best that Div. IV has to offer- we'll see if they can even handle the step up to Div. III this year, let alone Div. I-- that all run, no pass stuff works OK, when you are playing teams with no decent defense in Div. IV-- but it ain't gonna work very well at Div. I, unless you have Colerain level athletes-- and Alter doesn't have many of those-- they have mostly kids that are fine with being big fish in a small pond-- which is not usually the kind of kid that College Div. I programs recruit...

Since you are so much more on top of Alter's program than I am, tell me how many (and who) Alter has sent to a College Div. I football program, as a scholarship athlete, in the last 5 years-- then let me know how many Wayne or Centerville averaged over the same period.

This website (page 23) shows 13 kids from Alter from 2011-2015 (last year listed) that "continued their playing careers in college" at Div. ! schools-- but it's hard to tell how many of those were actually scholarship athletes (versus walk-ons or other):
https://alterhs.org/wp-content/uploa...20Handbook.pdf

That averages to 2.6 kids/year-- IF ALL of those kids were scholarship athletes-- which I highly doubt-- I'm betting the number of scholarship Div. I athletes is more like a 1-2/year at Alter...

This site lists Centerville's Div. I college players-- but there are no years listed-- elsewhere, it says that Centerville had 8 kids sign for next year-- but again, not sure how many of those are Div. I scholarship athletes:
http://centervilleelksfootball.com/ncaa-div-1-players/

Bottom line-- are there Div. I athletes at Alter--yes-- are there a lot of them-- I doubt it-- and i doubt there are as many every year as you would find at Centerville or Wayne.
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  #117  
Old 10-23-17, 03:19 AM
4GX 4GX is offline
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I'm sure Darius Ashley didn't go to St. Xavier on his "opportunity" scholarship for football. Without him, they do not get a whiff of the 2007 State Championship.
Actually X had two other top-notch RBs that year (Luca Romeo and Berning)--and didn't even miss a beat during that season, when Ashley missed a lot of time with a bad ankle (as I recall)-- so yes, they would have "whiffed" the state title without him-- they won the final by more than 40 points -- I think they could have afforded to play one of those other two guys (who filled in ably for him), and still won it by, oh, at least two touchdowns...

I also know black kids who got what you call "opportunity scholarships" to X, who did not play sports-- some were in the band, or Theater Xavier-- in fact, 40% of the entire student body is on some level of "scholarship"--so that's a LOT of "opportunity" being given out to ~600 boys/year--the majority of whom DO NOT EVEN PLAY SPORTS at X.
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  #118  
Old 10-23-17, 08:49 AM
Yeoman Yeoman is offline
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Originally Posted by 4GX View Post
Actually X had two other top-notch RBs that year (Luca Romeo and Berning)--and didn't even miss a beat during that season, when Ashley missed a lot of time with a bad ankle (as I recall)-- so yes, they would have "whiffed" the state title without him-- they won the final by more than 40 points -- I think they could have afforded to play one of those other two guys (who filled in ably for him), and still won it by, oh, at least two touchdowns...

I also know black kids who got what you call "opportunity scholarships" to X, who did not play sports-- some were in the band, or Theater Xavier-- in fact, 40% of the entire student body is on some level of "scholarship"--so that's a LOT of "opportunity" being given out to ~600 boys/year--the majority of whom DO NOT EVEN PLAY SPORTS at X.
The logic here escapes me. The majority of scholarships given out at Ohio State are not for athletics. Does that mean that OSU football players do not go there to play football?
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Old 10-24-17, 08:40 AM
4GX 4GX is offline
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Originally Posted by Yeoman View Post
The logic here escapes me. The majority of scholarships given out at Ohio State are not for athletics. Does that mean that OSU football players do not go there to play football?
I can see why the logic escapes you-- your non sequitur about "a majority of scholarships given out at Ohio State are not for athletics" has little or no bearing on what grade-school kids deciding to go to the (decidedly less professional) environment of Alter HS do-- when you are a college Division ! scholarship athlete, you ARE a professional--it's a job-- and that status DEFINES you (it sure takes up more TIME than a job)-- that has nothing to do with an 8th grade kid that may (or may NOT) even turn out to be good enough to play at the HS varsity level (and will with a very high probability never play a down of football beyond college)-- he is just a kid going to HS-- not a "football player" first and foremost-- almost every kid playing college football entertains thoughts of being a professional (if he likes the game)-- he is a professional in all but name-- not so, the vast majority of 8th grade kids choosing a school. You have created a false tautology.
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Old 10-24-17, 09:47 AM
tonka tonka is offline
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Wyoming vs Indian Hill - I think the Cowboys win 35-21.
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