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  #1  
Old 10-24-16, 09:26 AM
El Indio El Indio is offline
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If Harbins were used for NCAA?

Just curious what the top teams would be if the Harbins were applied to NCAA.
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  #2  
Old 10-24-16, 10:01 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is online now
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That would be really interesting to see.
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  #3  
Old 10-24-16, 10:12 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Maybe vamps can do this.
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  #4  
Old 10-24-16, 12:05 PM
BlackHawk BlackHawk is offline
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First, divide college football teams into seven divisions, by upperclass male school enrollment, then...

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  #5  
Old 10-24-16, 12:52 PM
14Red 14Red is online now
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One thing is you can throw out all the non conference games for most of the power 5 conferences, take the cupcakes off the schedule. So then you get down to the leagues, some are better than others, but unfortunately now we have too large of leagues so you don't play everyone. Again, that waters down the schedule.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-16, 12:55 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is online now
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For FBS you could split it into two divisions Power 5 and Group of 5. Count one as 6 the other as 5. For any FCS opponents count them as 4. Nice round numbers.

Something tells me you'll have quite a few teams with similar numbers though.
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  #7  
Old 10-25-16, 07:37 AM
El Indio El Indio is offline
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Thanks MM2002! Can you give us updates every week?
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  #8  
Old 10-25-16, 02:49 PM
BlackHawk BlackHawk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Indio View Post
Just curious what the top teams would be if the Harbins were applied to NCAA.
Thanks to MississippiMud's number crunching, now we know...Western Michigan would be in the playoffs...Boise State, Navy and Penn State wouldn't be too far behind...heads would explode.
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  #9  
Old 10-25-16, 03:54 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Really, we need to look at this at year's end. That will be very interesting.
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  #10  
Old 10-26-16, 07:33 AM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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If you are going to do a Harbins for college ratings, you would divide schools by the number of scholarships offered.

FBS 85 8.5pts
FCS 63 6.3 pts
II 36 3.6 pts
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  #11  
Old 10-31-16, 12:08 PM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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SEC 6.4
BT 7.0
P12 6.8
B12 6.0
ACC 6.6
AAC 2.4
CUSA .8
MAC .8
MW .6
WAC .4
ND 7.0
BYU 6.0
Army .8
UMASS .4

All other conferences .1

Based on the only important criteria- $$$$$$
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  #12  
Old 11-05-16, 01:09 PM
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BlessEmAll BlessEmAll is offline
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This would solve the whole scheduling thing. No more cup cakes.

I would enter a value in based on recruiting class ranking, schedule, history, and even coaching, if that's possible. Western Michigan? That's a shocker.

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  #13  
Old 11-08-16, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMud2002 View Post
You would see less straight-up cupcakes. There would be more "Harbin cow" chasing instead, where teams would be trying to find teams that fit their "they win more than their fair share of games, but we would crush them" sweet spot. The phone would be ringing off the hook at New Mexico's athletic department.

The problem that you run into with applying a Harbin based system to college is that it's just... ...a very different set-up. There are so many more variables. All colleges recruit. The "male enrollment" of the school is somewhat irrelevant. The drop-off between "levels" is more exponential. The Harbin-based system for high school is definitely exploitable - it would be even more exploitable for colleges. It's very difficult to make the point differences between levels big enough to be "fair", but not so big that a smaller FBS conference is just wasting its time even participating.

I think it's worth mentioning that the Harbin system is not designed to accurately rank teams (though, to be honest, the results from my experiment aren't all that crazy off from the AP rankings). It has one objective : Create a playoff field where it is reasonable that any team that could realistically win the title would qualify. For ranking purposes, it's probably more sensible to use something ELO-based, or one of the models that were used back during the BCS days.
Makes perfect sense.Mississippi.

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  #14  
Old 11-14-16, 11:30 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Interesting to see Western Michigan up there pretty high.

I'd be curious to see the BCS rankings this year
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  #15  
Old 11-14-16, 12:04 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Interesting to see Western Michigan up there pretty high.

I'd be curious to see the BCS rankings this year
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...gton/93454820/

Has a ranking system based on Billingsley, Colley, Massey, Wolfe and Sagarin. Has not been updated for this week, they usually come out on Tuesdays.
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  #16  
Old 11-16-16, 08:03 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...gton/93454820/

Has a ranking system based on Billingsley, Colley, Massey, Wolfe and Sagarin. Has not been updated for this week, they usually come out on Tuesdays.
Updated for this week:

Bama and OSU are #2 in all 5 polls. Based on averages Michigan, Clemson, Washington, Louisville, Wisconsin, Penn State, USC, Western Michigan round out the top 10.
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  #17  
Old 11-17-16, 12:17 PM
El Indio El Indio is offline
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Thanks MississippiMud2002! I really appreciate it! But for some reason I'm craving Mississippi Mud cake now!
Also thanks to all that have made comments on how to give Harbin points.
Thanks again!
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  #18  
Old 11-20-16, 10:24 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Interesting.

"Not playing anyone good but not playing anyone bad" is something I've noticed in HS. If I'm a conference admin and the goal is to maximize playoff teams, I'm preaching for all schools to schedule light in OOC play. You take a hit in your L2s, but if every team in the conference can come out of OOC play with a bunch of cupcake wins everyone in conference turns into a harbin cow.
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  #19  
Old 12-05-16, 01:59 PM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMud2002 View Post
I'm going to post the "final edition" soon, but amusingly enough :

The final four are going to be the same as the committee's final four for the playoff, down to the seed numbers. I found that interesting.
How can that be? The committee is arbitrarily choosing teams based on $$$. It's all a conspiracy! You're telling me that you have a mathematical formula that exactly mimicked the committees picks, down to the exact seeds?
I'd really like to hear from the conspiracy guys on how they explain this? Maybe the committee is smarter than you think? Maybe they got it exactly right.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-16, 02:03 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Harbins are rigged
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  #21  
Old 12-05-16, 02:08 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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The playoff committee bought off Joe Eitel years ago to set it up this way so all 4 teams would make it. Jeff Long was sent from the future.
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  #22  
Old 12-05-16, 06:37 PM
BlackHawk BlackHawk is offline
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Interesting. The Harbins system would have resulted in the same four teams.
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  #23  
Old 12-06-16, 10:38 AM
coolguy coolguy is offline
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Now imagine how much more fun it would be if the top 16 made it into a playoff bracket ----


#1 Alabama
#16 Wisconsin

#8 Oklahoma
#9 Florida State


#5 Western Michigan
#12 North Carolina

#13 South Florida
#4 Washington

---------------------------------------
#3 Ohio State
#14 Oklahoma State

#6 Penn State
#11 West Virginia


#7 Michigan
#10 Boise State

#15 Tennessee
#2 Clemson
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  #24  
Old 12-06-16, 10:39 AM
coolguy coolguy is offline
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Lopsided bracket with Alabama having a cakewalk to the finals.
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  #25  
Old 12-06-16, 11:17 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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That ^^^ looks like a horrible waste of time.
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  #26  
Old 12-06-16, 11:26 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMud2002 View Post
I was actually kind of shocked at how "not terrible" the results were. If someone turned that in for their AP vote, you might disagree, but you wouldn't think they were crazy. I was expecting huge differences.
Maybe WMU at 6, but other than that no real complaints.
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  #27  
Old 12-06-16, 12:41 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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At least those wastes of time have nothing to do with determining the national champion.
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  #28  
Old 12-06-16, 01:28 PM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Other than Vamps and Crusaders, everyone else in America knows that OSU>Penn St. Everything else can be debated, that cannot. The only thing that they are trying to hang their hat on is that Penn St beat OSU. But they forget about the slaughtering Penn St received from Michigan and the loss to Pitt. The sole fact that Penn St beat OSU does not make Penn St the better team anymore than OSU win over Michigan makes them the better team. What makes OSU better than Michigan and Penn St is that they only have 1 loss vs those other teams 2 losses, not the individual head to head games. Penn St won that game, but any sensible college football follower knows that OSU is a better team. Anyone with half a brain knows that Penn St backed into the Big10 championship. The 4 best teams are in the final 4. Period. You cannot lose 2 games and then argue that you should be in over no loss and 1 loss teams from power conferences. My God, what is so hard about this?
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  #29  
Old 12-06-16, 04:21 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMud2002 View Post
This is one of the reasons I like the idea of 16 teams with all of the conference champions included. Ohio State and Penn State would both get in, and it could be settled.

Yes, the first round would likely be kind of boring (though less boring than it might look on paper - crazy upsets happen), but it'd be fair, and I think the student-athletes would prefer it. If you were San Diego State, would you rather go to Tuscaloosa to take on Alabama in an opening round game or the Las Vegas Bowl? I think if the FCS schools can do it, the FBS schools can do it. The small conferences are part of FBS football, so their champions should get a shot, even if it's ridiculous odds.

I also think it would help close the gap between the "Power 5" and the smaller conferences, and the first round blowouts wouldn't be as common after some time.
Las Vegas Bowl for sure. No way would I want to get sh*t on. I'm partying it up in Vegas.
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  #30  
Old 12-06-16, 06:29 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Excellent work MM, amazing that the Harbins and committee came up with the same 4 teams.
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