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  #151  
Old 11-12-17, 04:46 PM
HTFF HTFF is offline
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That's why I've said all along. The current plan is not tax breaks for the rich. It merely resets things to where they were before obama messed with them to feed his insatiable spending habit
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  #152  
Old 11-12-17, 05:48 PM
domi domi is offline
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Originally Posted by HTFF View Post
He repealed the Bush tax plan
Didn't he sign a bill making the Bush tax cuts permanent in 2013 as part of an agreement with Republicans?

Obamacare definitely raised some rates but outside of that I can't find any bills where Obama signed a tax increase. Or tax cut repeal as you claim. Obama was pretty much a turd as a president but there's no reason to attribute stuff to him he didn't do.
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  #153  
Old 11-12-17, 06:37 PM
HTFF HTFF is offline
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In late 2012, with the fiscal cliff crisis pressuring both sides to act, Obama came out of the ordeal with a compromise. A law passed just before 11 p.m. on Jan. 1, 2013, permanently raised rates on families making more than $450,000 and $400,000 for individuals. It's a higher income threshold than Obama sought, but it accomplishes his philosophical goal of asking the wealthy to pay more.
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  #154  
Old 11-12-17, 09:59 PM
domi domi is offline
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Originally Posted by HTFF View Post
In late 2012, with the fiscal cliff crisis pressuring both sides to act, Obama came out of the ordeal with a compromise. A law passed just before 11 p.m. on Jan. 1, 2013, permanently raised rates on families making more than $450,000 and $400,000 for individuals. It's a higher income threshold than Obama sought, but it accomplishes his philosophical goal of asking the wealthy to pay more.
I stand corrected. I had forgot about that bill and it doesn't appear to be one that either side is really proud of.
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  #155  
Old 11-14-17, 08:34 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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looks like the tax bill has the 'Pubs swinging back to pick up something that they had tripped over -

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...verage-n820791
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  #156  
Old 11-14-17, 08:37 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
How? There is a financial transaction where 1 party is able to sell a good and receive income for it. They will pay taxes on that transaction. The other person is allowing the initial investor to receive a gain or loss on their investment and also pays a commission to perform the transaction. You should probably brush up on your understanding of the definition of hoarding.
you're as dependable as the sunrise, old man
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  #157  
Old 11-14-17, 08:43 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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"Investing is hoarding" - libs
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  #158  
Old 11-15-17, 07:48 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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This bill just keeps getting worse for "working American's" which I define as those who rely on a salary/wages as their primary source of income.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-debate-update
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  #159  
Old 11-15-17, 01:14 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
This bill just keeps getting worse for "working American's" which I define as those who rely on a salary/wages as their primary source of income.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-debate-update
Yeah you're right, Pelosi said this bill will cause violence in the future and Schumer said it will add to the deficit. Whatever the two best politicos in our time say is OK with me. Down with tax cuts, down with tax cuts. Bring back Harry! Bring back Harry!
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  #160  
Old 11-15-17, 01:38 PM
Buck_98 Buck_98 is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
I'm not taking a position on tax reform, but if a wealthy person gets a tax cut of $17,500 and buys 100 shares of Apple, the only real profit is the $6.95 that Scottrade gets to execute the buy order.
Which keeps someone in a job at Scottrade.
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  #161  
Old 11-15-17, 01:54 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
Yeah you're right, Pelosi said this bill will cause violence in the future and Schumer said it will add to the deficit. Whatever the two best politicos in our time say is OK with me. Down with tax cuts, down with tax cuts. Bring back Harry! Bring back Harry!
Not against tax cuts....just don't sell this bill as tax cuts for the working middle class. Also, it is accelerating debt for the next decade plus...that used to be a conservative cause. Also, the very wealthy have done incredibly well...so the benefits are minimal.
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  #162  
Old 11-15-17, 02:16 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Not against tax cuts....just don't sell this bill as tax cuts for the working middle class. Also, it is accelerating debt for the next decade plus...that used to be a conservative cause. Also, the very wealthy have done incredibly well...so the benefits are minimal.
Other than Joe and Minka's talking points explain to me if you will, how this proposal hurts the middle class? As far as accelerating debt, after eight years of the electric negro, don't make me laugh. Wealthy always do well, Dems or Pubs, doesn't matter, haven't you figured that one out yet?
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  #163  
Old 11-15-17, 02:42 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
Not against tax cuts....just don't sell this bill as tax cuts for the working middle class. Also, it is accelerating debt for the next decade plus...that used to be a conservative cause. Also, the very wealthy have done incredibly well...so the benefits are minimal.
Hard to cut taxes if half of the middle class pays no income taxes. Tax cuts have absolutely no bearing on debt. You could cut taxes by 25% and start to pay off debt if you cut spending by 60%.

The wealthy have done well because they've been able to sit on existing investments and watch the stock market go up 300%. At some point the gravy train stops and you get the wealthy to start selling their existing stock and investing in new ventures to ride the next wave. The benefits of that would be huge as new companies need new employees.......
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  #164  
Old 11-15-17, 03:39 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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The wealthy have done well because they have the power and control to dictate policy that enriches them and screws others, with very little accountability. We are pretty much a full on plutocracy at this point. We say Donor Class now but one and the same. Same old trickle down lie and you still fall for it. The inheritance tax issue is another example. Of course it is imperative for generations of Koch and Trump kids to rule. "Old money" lol. Just like British monarchy. Basically the antithesis of capitalism.
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  #165  
Old 11-15-17, 03:43 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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How is the current tax structure designed to benefit the wealthy? If they were secretly designing the tax structure behind the scenes, don't you think more than half the country would actually be paying income taxes? Don't you think our corporate tax rate wouldn't be among the highest in the developed world?

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  #166  
Old 11-15-17, 03:44 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
The wealthy have done well because they have the power and control to dictate policy that enriches them and screws others, with very little accountability. We are pretty much a full on plutocracy at this point. We say Donor Class now but one and the same. Same old trickle down lie and you still fall for it. The inheritance tax issue is another example. Of course it is imperative for generations of Koch and Trump kids to rule. "Old money" lol. Just like British monarchy. Basically the antithesis of capitalism.
So exactly when was this plutocracy/monarchy created? Were they in hiding the last eight years? This hate the rich stuff, race card stuff, woman hater stuff just doesn't hold true for the Dems anymore. You guys really need a new schtick for the future. Meanwhile I will enjoy the extra money from tax cuts and economic growth, majority in the SCOTUS and the unveiling of the ugliness that is DC. Way to go Donnie!
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  #167  
Old 11-15-17, 03:46 PM
Buck_98 Buck_98 is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
How is the current tax structure designed to benefit the wealthy? If they were secretly designing the tax structure behind the scenes, don't you think more than half the country would actually be paying income taxes? Don't you think our corporate tax rate wouldn't be among the highest in the developed world?

Neo, that makes too much sense. He doesn't do well with facts.
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  #168  
Old 11-15-17, 04:41 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
How is the current tax structure designed to benefit the wealthy?
When they end up paying much less than working stiffs like you and me, or ZERO. But I was not just referring to influencing tax policy.

Are we really going to argue over the undue influence a small handful have over millions? The politicians don't even hide it anymore - straight up say "we have to appease the donors." (Not voters. Donors).
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  #169  
Old 11-15-17, 04:46 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
When they end up paying much less than working stiffs like you and me, or ZERO.
Could you provide an example of when a wealthy person would pay $0 in taxes
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  #170  
Old 11-15-17, 05:32 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Could you provide an example of when a wealthy person would pay $0 in taxes
I think I head it on morning Joe this morning
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  #171  
Old 11-15-17, 06:47 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
When they end up paying much less than working stiffs like you and me, or ZERO. But I was not just referring to influencing tax policy.

Are we really going to argue over the undue influence a small handful have over millions? The politicians don't even hide it anymore - straight up say "we have to appease the donors." (Not voters. Donors).
I challenge you to take ANY salary for ANY amount and add in income from investments for ANY amount and show how a wealthy person pays less than a working stiff. You can go 0 from salary and $40K from investments and the billionaire will pay more than someone with the same income.

I want Obamascam scrapped, I want the tax code flattened or completely re-written or scrapped and replaced by FairTax. I think everyone should pay something and I think the wealthy should pay more but I also think that there should be a limit for how much government can take away from any person. I want the government to work off of their revenue and not to pick a revenue based on how much they want to spend and how much they can take from as few people to pay for it - everyone should have skin in the game.

I want spending cut by 50% or more, I want government downsized by 50%....... It's not just taxes, they need to cut spending as well or we are doomed as a nation.
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  #172  
Old 11-15-17, 07:21 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
When they end up paying much less than working stiffs like you and me, or ZERO. But I was not just referring to influencing tax policy.

Are we really going to argue over the undue influence a small handful have over millions? The politicians don't even hide it anymore - straight up say "we have to appease the donors." (Not voters. Donors).
If this were true, how would you propose to fix it?
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  #173  
Old 11-15-17, 10:29 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
I challenge you to take ANY salary for ANY amount and add in income from investments for ANY amount and show how a wealthy person pays less than a working stiff. You can go 0 from salary and $40K from investments and the billionaire will pay more than someone with the same income.

I want Obamascam scrapped, I want the tax code flattened or completely re-written or scrapped and replaced by FairTax. I think everyone should pay something and I think the wealthy should pay more but I also think that there should be a limit for how much government can take away from any person. I want the government to work off of their revenue and not to pick a revenue based on how much they want to spend and how much they can take from as few people to pay for it - everyone should have skin in the game.

I want spending cut by 50% or more, I want government downsized by 50%....... It's not just taxes, they need to cut spending as well or we are doomed as a nation.
So support a Presidential candidate that wants to completely dismantle the military and SS/Medicare/Medicaid---Immediately. Opposite of Trumps agenda>>>
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  #174  
Old 11-15-17, 10:48 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
So support a Presidential candidate that wants to completely dismantle the military and SS/Medicare/Medicaid---Immediately. Opposite of Trumps agenda>>>
The military is a Constitutional requirement, it can be cut but not eliminated. To do that, the civilian government has to decide what the role of the military is in the 21st century. We've always considered the military must be able to fight a WWII scenario with 2 fronts thousands of miles apart and that's what we have built the military for.

SS/Medicare/Medicaid/Welfare are not required of the government. However, people were promised a benefit for the wages that were taken from them. I would change the formula for SS/Medicare to separate them from the government and privatize them. I would raise the retirement age for anyone under 30 to 70 or 75 and provide a benefit based on the lifetime contribution of the individual vs as a wealth redistribution scam. But there will need to be a transition because past governments have underfunded the program and blown excess contributions.

I would cut Medicaid by 20%, put a cap on it, make it a block grant and change the law so that the split between the feds and the states is tilted more to the states and let them decide what benefits to offer and how much they need to tax their citizenry to pay for it.

I would kill welfare 100% over a 2 year span since it is a power not enumerated in the Constitution and let the individual states decide how they want to proceed.
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  #175  
Old 11-16-17, 07:22 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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All of your above recommendations are directly against what Trump campaigned on so there would likely be a substantial backlash...but the better question is the benefit of the tax plan worth the cost for the average voter? I say NO.

Per Tax Analyst this morning:
And while the JCT scored the modified mark as increasing the deficit by $ 1.41 trillion over 10 years, the CRFB wrote in a November 15 blog post that it "masks the $ 515 billion of gimmicks the bill contains and doesn't include interest costs" resulting from the higher debt.

The true cost of the bill, according to the CRFB, is closer to $ 2.2 trillion over a decade, after assuming that the expiring tax provisions or triggered provisions don't take effect as written in the legislation.
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  #176  
Old 11-16-17, 09:06 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
.......And while the JCT scored the modified mark as increasing the deficit by $ 1.41 trillion over 10 years, the CRFB wrote in a November 15 blog post that it "masks the $ 515 billion of gimmicks the bill contains and doesn't include interest costs" resulting from the higher debt.
........
The Obama Administration and Congress used all kinds of trickery INCLUDING increasing taxes on various people 3 years BEFORE Obamascam covered a single person. They also used an extension of the early years to project surpluses, but that required more to be taken from Taxpayers in the end he Democrats and Obama allowed various special interests (unions, etc.) to avoid Obamascam and that led to reduced revenues to pay for it. The reality is that Obamascam will run nearly a $1T deficit over the next 10 years when adding in increased Medicaid payments and reduced revenue and reduced job growth.
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  #177  
Old 11-16-17, 09:10 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by Happygoluckky View Post
All of your above recommendations are directly against what Trump campaigned on so there would likely be a substantial backlash...but the better question is the benefit of the tax plan worth the cost for the average voter? I say NO.
.......
It's a start. A long journey starts with a single step.

If a Republican Congress and President can't make any headway to correct our 100+ year march to socialism, then we are doomed as a nation and changes the drivers for the economy.
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  #178  
Old 11-16-17, 01:22 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
The Obama Administration and Congress used all kinds of trickery INCLUDING increasing taxes on various people 3 years BEFORE Obamascam covered a single person. They also used an extension of the early years to project surpluses, but that required more to be taken from Taxpayers in the end he Democrats and Obama allowed various special interests (unions, etc.) to avoid Obamascam and that led to reduced revenues to pay for it. The reality is that Obamascam will run nearly a $1T deficit over the next 10 years when adding in increased Medicaid payments and reduced revenue and reduced job growth.
Still less of an impact to the debt and people were getting access to coverage.
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  #179  
Old 11-16-17, 01:23 PM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
It's a start. A long journey starts with a single step.

If a Republican Congress and President can't make any headway to correct our 100+ year march to socialism, then we are doomed as a nation and changes the drivers for the economy.
New Quinnipiac poll: Only 25% (!) approve of the GOP tax plan. Only 16% think the GOP plan will reduce their taxes. The GOP agenda is wildly unpopular with voters....especially those Trump voters who think that he is fighting for them
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  #180  
Old 11-16-17, 02:00 PM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Give it up Happy, you know, I know, they know, it does not matter. They vote against their promises (and own interests) all the time.

Funny how the Tea Party deficit hawks disappeared the moment Count Blacula's term ended, lol. GOP literally knows no other playbook. Deficit spend and trickle down. Regardless the situation.
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