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  #31  
Old 04-17-18, 02:12 PM
Cradle Man Cradle Man is offline
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Originally Posted by Zezzo! View Post
I agree no high school football coach is getting an 83k stipend to coach he's more than likely making 83k combined with his teaching salary and coaching stipend that happens all the time.


Whatís the name of this school? Must be in Franklin County ! Thatís where Jim Jordan and his pals send Ohio school money!


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  #32  
Old 04-18-18, 07:02 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cradle Man View Post
What’s the name of this school? Must be in Franklin County ! That’s where Jim Jordan and his pals send Ohio school money!


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It's pretty common everywhere. If a Head football or Basketball coach is a teacher (say with 10-20 years experience), they are easily making 80k+ combined with coaching and teaching salary. Most teachers with 10-20 years are making between $60-$80k teaching alone depending on number of years and level of education. Add that to the $6-10k (roughly) that they are making coaching and it adds up. A lot of schools even give coaches the opportunity to get stipends for weight room supervision, etc. It adds up
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  #33  
Old 04-18-18, 07:08 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Today grades are all online and anyone can be given access. If a kid has an academic issue the coach has the same authority if he is in the building or not and that goes the same for discipline.
I see it from either side and it does depend directly on the district. But some have the idea that because a coach is in the building they are watching over a player 24/7 and that is not true at all. Does it also matter what the coach teaches?
I disagree whole heartedly. Again, it depends on the district and the demographics. Checking grades online and actually going to teachers to make sure students are doing what they're supposed to are completely different. Coaches who teach in the building have a lot more pull with other teachers than coaches who aren't in the building. Plus, you're assuming that the HC is always at the school and doesn't have a real full time job. When push comes to shove at the end of the quarter and Johnny needs to pass 2 classes in order to play, the coach who is in the building can do a lot more to make that happen than the coach who isn't. Say it's not true, but I've seen it happen PLENTY.

Discipline is the same thing. I've also seen it first hand. You must not be a teacher and coach in a building. It also doesn't matter what the coach teaches at all. That's a stupid comment.
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  #34  
Old 04-18-18, 07:29 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
I disagree whole heartedly. Again, it depends on the district and the demographics. Checking grades online and actually going to teachers to make sure students are doing what they're supposed to are completely different. Coaches who teach in the building have a lot more pull with other teachers than coaches who aren't in the building. Plus, you're assuming that the HC is always at the school and doesn't have a real full time job. When push comes to shove at the end of the quarter and Johnny needs to pass 2 classes in order to play, the coach who is in the building can do a lot more to make that happen than the coach who isn't. Say it's not true, but I've seen it happen PLENTY.

Discipline is the same thing. I've also seen it first hand. You must not be a teacher and coach in a building. It also doesn't matter what the coach teaches at all. That's a stupid comment.
When you were in school did you see every teacher every day? What is the coach teaches lower level math, would you see them every day. Maybe if it is a small D3 or D4 school but not in the larger ones, so it could matter. I have dealt with both and saw very little difference. If your main benefit is that a teacher-coach in the building can put pressure on another teacher to pass Johnny so he can play on his team then that is a poor excuse.
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  #35  
Old 04-18-18, 09:03 AM
Philos_Finest Philos_Finest is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
It's pretty common everywhere. If a Head football or Basketball coach is a teacher (say with 10-20 years experience), they are easily making 80k+ combined with coaching and teaching salary. Most teachers with 10-20 years are making between $60-$80k teaching alone depending on number of years and level of education. Add that to the $6-10k (roughly) that they are making coaching and it adds up. A lot of schools even give coaches the opportunity to get stipends for weight room supervision, etc. It adds up
Where in the world are teachers with 10 years experience making $80k just teaching?!
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  #36  
Old 04-18-18, 09:07 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
When you were in school did you see every teacher every day? What is the coach teaches lower level math, would you see them every day. Maybe if it is a small D3 or D4 school but not in the larger ones, so it could matter. I have dealt with both and saw very little difference. If your main benefit is that a teacher-coach in the building can put pressure on another teacher to pass Johnny so he can play on his team then that is a poor excuse.
That wasn't the only reason I stated in past posts.

And I actually used to teach "lower level math" in a Division I school and coached football and yes I did see many of my players on a daily basis in the hallways, during my lunch and plan, etc. It helps build relationships that go beyond the football field. You are able to to keep tabs on what students are doing way easier, monitor behaviors, and deal with issues that students have while it's happening, not waiting until after school to deal with it. I can't tell you how many calls I got from teachers during the school day that one of my players was refusing to work, had poor grades in the class, or any type of issue. I was able to squash the issue within hours or sometimes even minutes as opposed to waiting until after school hours when the teacher might not even be there anymore.

If you honestly can't see the benefits to having coaches teach in the buildings, then you've clearly either never coached, teached, or both.
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  #37  
Old 04-18-18, 09:09 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Philos_Finest View Post
Where in the world are teachers with 10 years experience making $80k just teaching?!
If you read my post, it said teachers with 10-20 years experience make between $60-80k teaching. Never said a teacher with 10 years experience makes $80k. A teacher with 10 years probably makes closer to $60k while a teacher with 20 years makes closer to $80k (district specific obviously).

Don't try to make stupid comments and nit pick a post when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and missed the point completely.

I know, reading must not be your strong suit.
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  #38  
Old 04-18-18, 09:38 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
That wasn't the only reason I stated in past posts.

And I actually used to teach "lower level math" in a Division I school and coached football and yes I did see many of my players on a daily basis in the hallways, during my lunch and plan, etc. It helps build relationships that go beyond the football field. You are able to to keep tabs on what students are doing way easier, monitor behaviors, and deal with issues that students have while it's happening, not waiting until after school to deal with it. I can't tell you how many calls I got from teachers during the school day that one of my players was refusing to work, had poor grades in the class, or any type of issue. I was able to squash the issue within hours or sometimes even minutes as opposed to waiting until after school hours when the teacher might not even be there anymore.

If you honestly can't see the benefits to having coaches teach in the buildings, then you've clearly either never coached, teached, or both.
It honestly sounds like, from reading other posts as well as our discussion, that you were probably in the inner city. As I said earlier this can depend a lot on the school system and the sport. Not all student-athletes have poor grades, poor work ethic or discipline issues. I suppose in some schools those can be daily issues but I would guess that does not happen daily in most schools or at least I hope not. I have not said I do not see any benefits. But I would not hire a lesser qualified coach ONLY because they are a teacher in a building.
In the D2 district that I live in we have 21 varsity head coaches and 15 of them do not walk the halls of the high school building. Of the 6 that do, 4 are girls sports and 2 are boys. In the other 15 sports every coach has been there multiple years and in 5 of the 15, the head coach has never been a teacher in the building and we compete at the regional and state level regularly.
I have coached while I walked the halls and I have coached while not being in the building. I have had no issues with my location.
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  #39  
Old 04-18-18, 09:41 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
If you read my post, it said teachers with 10-20 years experience make between $60-80k teaching. Never said a teacher with 10 years experience makes $80k. A teacher with 10 years probably makes closer to $60k while a teacher with 20 years makes closer to $80k (district specific obviously).

Don't try to make stupid comments and nit pick a post when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and missed the point completely.

I know, reading must not be your strong suit.
Are there a lot of schools that pay a teacher $60k after 10 years? I know teachers who retire making just over that. If this is true teachers are being paid much better than they used to be.
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  #40  
Old 04-18-18, 10:09 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Are there a lot of schools that pay a teacher $60k after 10 years? I know teachers who retire making just over that. If this is true teachers are being paid much better than they used to be.
Again, depends on the district (and honestly the quality of their union). Also depends on level of education. In the district I am in now, those are the approximate ranges if I remember correctly. The max in my district currently is $85k with 25 years experience and max education (and we have one of the lower base salaries in the county). 10 years with a master's degree is a little over $60k (pretty standard to have a master's by 10 years). Head basketball and football coaches make 7 or 8k if I remember correctly as well (which is also low for the area).
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  #41  
Old 04-18-18, 10:22 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Again, depends on the district (and honestly the quality of their union). Also depends on level of education. In the district I am in now, those are the approximate ranges if I remember correctly. The max in my district currently is $85k with 25 years experience and max education (and we have one of the lower base salaries in the county). 10 years with a master's degree is a little over $60k (pretty standard to have a master's by 10 years). Head basketball and football coaches make 7 or 8k if I remember correctly as well (which is also low for the area).
A survey done about 5 years ago had the average salary for a Toledo public school teacher with a masters degree at just over $42k with 12 years experience.
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  #42  
Old 04-18-18, 11:18 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
A survey done about 5 years ago had the average salary for a Toledo public school teacher with a masters degree at just over $42k with 12 years experience.
Toledo public schools: probably.

A suburb of Toledo: probably not

Again, depends where you are.

Average salary for my district I would say is $50-60k (suburb of Cleveland). Go 15 minutes east to a very high income area and that average goes up by 20k easily
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  #43  
Old 04-18-18, 08:25 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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The average salary for the state is in the $50s so I struggle to see many at 10 years making $60k and not many make the $80k you mentioned.
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  #44  
Old 04-19-18, 06:10 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Pretty good article from a Cleveland new site I just saw. Only talks about the major cities in Ohio and suburbs in Northeast Ohio, but still relevant to my point. Remember these are the AVERAGE salaries. That means that some teachers make more and others make less. Again, depends on level of education and years experience.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/...icts-statewide

Average salaries.

- Akron City Schools: $59,653 -- Continuous Improvement
- Cincinnati Schools: $64,638 -- Continuous Improvement
- Dayton Schools: $52,324 -- Academic Watch
- Toledo Schools: $55,780 -- Academic Watch
- Columbus Schools: $67,167 -- Continuous Improvement

- Cleveland Heights-University Heights: $69,602 -- Continuous Improvement
- Brunswick: $59,393 -- Excellent
- Medina: $70,988 -- Excellent
- Euclid: $64,981 -- Continuous Improvement
- Hudson: $72,901 -- Excellent
- Mentor: $66,760 -- Excellent with Distinction
- Twinsburg: $65,612 -- Excellent
- Westlake: $71,274 -- Excellent with Distinction
- Shaker Heights: $73,191 -- Effective

EDIT: This article is from 2013-14 I just realized. So actually salaries have probably gone up for cost of living increases.
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  #45  
Old 04-19-18, 07:03 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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And the average Ohio wage is around $48k but every week some teacher group is protesting because of unfair wages. Doesn't really add up, does it?
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  #46  
Old 04-19-18, 07:58 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
And the average Ohio wage is around $48k but every week some teacher group is protesting because of unfair wages. Doesn't really add up, does it?
Hasn't happened much in Ohio (as compared to other states like West Virginia where the entire state's teachers went on strike for 2 weeks). But yea honestly Ohio is pretty middle of the road when it comes to teacher salaries as compared to the rest of the country.

Looking at the data, it just depends where you teach in Ohio. The trend seems to be smaller, more rural districts pay less than larger suburban districts. Also seems like those suburban district have more teachers with Master's degree and above and more years experience generally.

Here's a website with a database of each district and the average salary for each district.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/d...-district.html

Highest is Beachwood at $81k average (very wealthy suburb of Cleveland)
Lowest is Bettsville at $34,000 (but website says they only have 22 teachers with average 7 years experience. Not very familiar with them)
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  #47  
Old 04-19-18, 08:02 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
And the average Ohio wage is around $48k but every week some teacher group is protesting because of unfair wages. Doesn't really add up, does it?
But I will say $48,000 (or whatever the average for Ohio is, I've seen some websites that say $50-53k is the average) is still pretty low as compared to similar jobs and careers with a similar level of education required.

People want a $15/hour minimum wage (equivalent to $31,200 annually with a 40 hour workweek), yet are fine with paying teachers with a college degree only $10-20k a year more than that. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me
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  #48  
Old 04-19-18, 08:06 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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This must be older data because Bettsville does not have its own school district any more. The merged with another about 3-4 years ago.
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  #49  
Old 04-19-18, 08:07 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
But I will say $48,000 (or whatever the average for Ohio is, I've seen some websites that say $50-53k is the average) is still pretty low as compared to similar jobs and careers with a similar level of education required.

People want a $15/hour minimum wage (equivalent to $31,200 annually with a 40 hour workweek), yet are fine with paying teachers with a college degree only $10-20k a year more than that. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me
Don't forget, that is a 40 hour work week for 52 weeks a year. Using your information above the Beachwood teacher is required to work 8 hrs/day for 186 days = 1488 total hours required a year. Your numbers to earn $31,200 at $15/hr is working 8 hrs/day for 260 days = 2080 total hours. Doing the math backwards that would mean the teacher wage average/hr for Beachwood is around $54/hour. Not bad if you ask me.
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  #50  
Old 04-19-18, 08:08 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
This must be older data because Bettsville does not have its own school district any more. The merged with another about 3-4 years ago.
Yea the database was from 2013-14 I believe. So that's possible. I looked them up and yea they are merged.

I looked up a few of the districts that were in the same category as them and pretty common. Smaller districts with fewer teachers with a not lot of experience. Probably high turnover. Districts that don't pay well have a high turnover, leading to them having to hire even more teachers with less experience, thus lowering their average salary. I went to a small high school and it seemed like we either had 20+ year veterans as teachers or brand new ones. Very few in between.
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  #51  
Old 04-19-18, 08:10 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Don't forget, that is a 40 hour work week for 52 weeks a year.
Well yea. But most people advocating for $15/hr minimum wage don't understand basic economics anyways and don't understand that raising the minimum wage will force employers to cut back on hours, meaning they wouldn't be making any more money anyways.
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  #52  
Old 04-19-18, 08:40 AM
Philos_Finest Philos_Finest is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
If you read my post, it said teachers with 10-20 years experience make between $60-80k teaching. Never said a teacher with 10 years experience makes $80k. A teacher with 10 years probably makes closer to $60k while a teacher with 20 years makes closer to $80k (district specific obviously).

Don't try to make stupid comments and nit pick a post when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and missed the point completely.

I know, reading must not be your strong suit.

Hilarious
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  #53  
Old 04-19-18, 09:59 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by tribefan23 View Post
Well yea. But most people advocating for $15/hr minimum wage don't understand basic economics anyways and don't understand that raising the minimum wage will force employers to cut back on hours, meaning they wouldn't be making any more money anyways.
I am not an advocate of raising the minimum wage to $15. there is a reason it is called the minimum wage and not a career wage.
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  #54  
Old 04-19-18, 10:12 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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I am not an advocate of raising the minimum wage to $15. there is a reason it is called the minimum wage and not a career wage.
Exactly
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  #55  
Old 04-19-18, 10:13 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Don't forget, that is a 40 hour work week for 52 weeks a year. Using your information above the Beachwood teacher is required to work 8 hrs/day for 186 days = 1488 total hours required a year. Your numbers to earn $31,200 at $15/hr is working 8 hrs/day for 260 days = 2080 total hours. Doing the math backwards that would mean the teacher wage average/hr for Beachwood is around $54/hour. Not bad if you ask me.
An issue that's hard to factor is that the typical teacher is doing a lot of work beyond the 8 hrs/day, 186 days a year..but it veries significantly dependent on curriculum, years doing the same/similar job, etc. If you've been in the same position for 15+ years with minimal curriculum/bureacracy changes and max education, it can be cushy. If you're young/new and have to deal with a lot of "extras", the pay is pretty weak relative to educational attainment and the "extra" hours that's required to survive in the job.

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  #56  
Old 04-19-18, 10:25 AM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Don't forget, that is a 40 hour work week for 52 weeks a year. Using your information above the Beachwood teacher is required to work 8 hrs/day for 186 days = 1488 total hours required a year. Your numbers to earn $31,200 at $15/hr is working 8 hrs/day for 260 days = 2080 total hours. Doing the math backwards that would mean the teacher wage average/hr for Beachwood is around $54/hour. Not bad if you ask me.
What would you suggest a college graduate with a Bachelors or Masters degree be paid for spending between $40,000-$60,000 to earn that degree?--
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  #57  
Old 04-19-18, 11:05 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
An issue that's hard to factor is that the typical teacher is doing a lot of work beyond the 8 hrs/day, 186 days a year..but it veries significantly dependent on curriculum, years doing the same/similar job, etc. If you've been in the same position for 15+ years with minimal curriculum/bureacracy changes and max education, it can be cushy. If you're young/new and have to deal with a lot of "extras", the pay is pretty weak relative to educational attainment and the "extra" hours that's required to survive in the job.

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Which can be the same for many careers.
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  #58  
Old 04-19-18, 11:08 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by CometCountry View Post
What would you suggest a college graduate with a Bachelors or Masters degree be paid for spending between $40,000-$60,000 to earn that degree?--
Can we agree that every college graduate is spending between $40-$60k to earn their degree? If so we can probably agree to any hourly amount you want.
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  #59  
Old 04-19-18, 11:22 AM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Can we agree that every college graduate is spending between $40-$60k to earn their degree? If so we can probably agree to any hourly amount you want.
Not sure what you mean about per hour wage, but if a 4 year student lives at home it likely would cost approximately $10,000 a year for tuition--if a student lives at school it could cost $25,000-$30,000 a year. Earning a professional degree I believe teachers are professionals just like a business person who would be on a salary rather than a per hour wage--just sayin.
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  #60  
Old 04-19-18, 11:31 AM
tribefan23 tribefan23 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Don't forget, that is a 40 hour work week for 52 weeks a year. Using your information above the Beachwood teacher is required to work 8 hrs/day for 186 days = 1488 total hours required a year. Your numbers to earn $31,200 at $15/hr is working 8 hrs/day for 260 days = 2080 total hours. Doing the math backwards that would mean the teacher wage average/hr for Beachwood is around $54/hour. Not bad if you ask me.
Not everyone works at Beachwood however. I wish I worked there, I would have a much nicer house!!! Haha. Do the same math for the state average salary of $50,000 and you get far, far less. And like someone else mentioned, this doesn't include extra hours at home grading, lesson planning, meetings, conferences, etc that teachers don't get paid extra for. I know other jobs that are salaried deal with the same things, but just trying to make a point.
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