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  #31  
Old 04-03-18, 02:34 PM
SeeYaSometime SeeYaSometime is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
What does the state of Akron Public schools have to do with kids coming from Lorain, or out of state? I support looking for and obtaining a better education in a safe environment. That has nothing to do with this conversation.
Other posters are alluding to players from years in the past. The vast majority of today's players are from the city of Akron. So my comment has everything to do with this conversation.

The player from Lorain, per the post championship event with the team at the Schott, began attending the SVSM summer basketball camp when he was a second grader. I'd say that gave the family plenty of time to decide where they wanted him to attend high school.
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  #32  
Old 04-03-18, 04:44 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Because a elementary kid goes to a summer camp he should change schools?

Let’s do a hypothetical. If ASVSM did not offer basketball, how many would still be students? I have another question. What is the tuition for the school and do ALL kids pay it?
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  #33  
Old 04-03-18, 04:45 PM
Cougarfan22 Cougarfan22 is online now
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Cracks me up to see the St V crowd react to the same thing that Hoban has been dealing with over the past 3 years. You win, you cheat. Thatís the message here. As long as you lose and do so gracefully no one cares. Life just isnít fair.
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  #34  
Old 04-03-18, 04:58 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cougarfan22 View Post
Cracks me up to see the St V crowd react to the same thing that Hoban has been dealing with over the past 3 years. You win, you cheat. Thatís the message here. As long as you lose and do so gracefully no one cares. Life just isnít fair.
Sorry, Cougar. But the Irish faithful has been dealing with this at least since LeBron's freshman year. And a LOT of it has come from Hoban fans through the years. And a LOT of it has had a LOT of not-so-subtle racial undertones. And a LOT of THAT came directly from the Hoban crowd. So let's not cry yourself a river too much.
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  #35  
Old 04-03-18, 06:36 PM
Cougarfan22 Cougarfan22 is online now
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
Sorry, Cougar. But the Irish faithful has been dealing with this at least since LeBron's freshman year. And a LOT of it has come from Hoban fans through the years. And a LOT of it has had a LOT of not-so-subtle racial undertones. And a LOT of THAT came directly from the Hoban crowd. So let's not cry yourself a river too much.
I donít pretend to know the entire history of this saga but it is funny how everybody piles on when u win it all. Hoban hasnít had that problem in the past so this is all pretty new to the Hoban supporters. I also donít know anything about any racial undertones so I wonít comment on that. I can guess what u are referring to. I am happy for St V winning the title as a local private school with some great athletes and kids.
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  #36  
Old 04-03-18, 06:43 PM
Orangeman89 Orangeman89 is offline
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Originally Posted by SeeYaSometime View Post
You're nuts, you know that? Take your PROOF of illegal activity to the ohsaa.

If you knew the state of the Akron Public Schools, especially the high schools, you'd have an understanding of why parents want a better environment for their kids.
Columbus City schools are rough too, Lunden McDay couldn't wait to get out!
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  #37  
Old 04-04-18, 07:32 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Originally Posted by SeeYaSometime View Post
Please either take a screen shot or post a link to the page on the SVSM website. I couldn't find it and would very much like to.

2012 was six years ago. What was the ohsaa resolution?
I went to their web site yesterday and they no longer list what areas a kid can "earn" a scholarship from them. They do say they have two million in aid handed out each year based on need. The price tag on a high school tuition per year is over $21,000.

For what it's worth, the site also says 529 college savings can be used to pay high school tuition. Something I did not know. Anyone know if all private school tuition works that way? Seems like an advantage to pay tuition with 529 dollars.


Bottom line is their athletes tend to come from those same families that qualify for portions of the two million set aside for scholarship aid.

Again, I have no real problem with their model myself, as I believe they truly are about giving inner city kids the opportunity for a quality private education. They are not a religious based private school.

As for OHSAA, they thanked me for forwarding the information to them, but gave me no further information as to their view of the situation.
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  #38  
Old 04-04-18, 07:37 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cougarfan22 View Post
I donít pretend to know the entire history of this saga but it is funny how everybody piles on when u win it all. Hoban hasnít had that problem in the past so this is all pretty new to the Hoban supporters. I also donít know anything about any racial undertones so I wonít comment on that. I can guess what u are referring to. I am happy for St V winning the title as a local private school with some great athletes and kids.
Sorry, I just over-reacted to the "now you see what we have to deal with" part of your post. And I am in no way suggesting that you or Bobby or Andy or any of the current Hoban posters were in any way connected to the past nonsense. You base your comments rightly upon your experiences at Hoban with your son, as it should be. But the archives of Yappi, and probably moreso on Huddle, show some threads that were, shall we say, less than charitable. That's all best left in the past. But it does remind me that while forums like Yappi are great places to exchange information and ideas with people from other parts of the State, to engage in friendly banter and even heated debate with those we disagree with, it is also a place where people feel free to expose the darker sides of their natures in the relative anonymity of an internet chat room. And, in Yappi's case since it deals with HS sports, those missives come often at the expense of teenagers.
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  #39  
Old 04-04-18, 08:09 AM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
I went to their web site yesterday and they no longer list what areas a kid can "earn" a scholarship from them. They do say they have two million in aid handed out each year based on need. The price tag on a high school tuition per year is over $21,000.

For what it's worth, the site also says 529 college savings can be used to pay high school tuition. Something I did not know. Anyone know if all private school tuition works that way? Seems like an advantage to pay tuition with 529 dollars.


Bottom line is their athletes tend to come from those same families that qualify for portions of the two million set aside for scholarship aid.

Again, I have no real problem with their model myself, as I believe they truly are about giving inner city kids the opportunity for a quality private education. They are not a religious based private school.

As for OHSAA, they thanked me for forwarding the information to them, but gave me no further information as to their view of the situation.
The 2017 529 reform included a provision for tax-free withdrawals[limit of $10,000/yr for tax free, higher than $10,000'yr is taxable] for private, public or religious elementary, middle and high school tuition
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  #40  
Old 04-04-18, 05:30 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is online now
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If you move the Irish based on their success then the rule should also be applied to some of the lower division publics that dominate. You have publics that dominate several boys and girls sports - move them as well. I was surprised when so many schools got moved up that SVSM was able to stay the same. Sort of a headshaker. Damn near every private got moved up last year due to CBP. Does SVSM deserve to be D1 - maybe or maybe not. That being said no rule should be a witch hunt looking to punish one school.

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  #41  
Old 04-04-18, 07:40 PM
RoughRiderSports RoughRiderSports is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
Sorry, Cougar. But the Irish faithful has been dealing with this at least since LeBron's freshman year. And a LOT of it has come from Hoban fans through the years. And a LOT of it has had a LOT of not-so-subtle racial undertones. And a LOT of THAT came directly from the Hoban crowd. So let's not cry yourself a river too much.
Give him a break. He's a johnny-come-lately.
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  #42  
Old 04-04-18, 10:18 PM
StarstoShine StarstoShine is offline
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Will most likely be D2 in 19-20 due to outgoing transfers and limited incoming basketball talent class of 2022.

Last edited by StarstoShine; 04-22-18 at 07:37 PM.
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  #43  
Old 04-05-18, 08:52 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by StarstoShine View Post
STVM starting Lineup St Sebastian St Anthony Top reserves IHM St Paul Copley and a relative of Akron Gus Johnson, St Anthonyís, St Augustine (2). Twinsburg, Cleveland etc. No out of state players. Return 12 of the 13 Players. What happens when the STVM 2018 Football team returning 17 of 22 Starters competes for a D3 State Title?
I'm not sure about this year's squad, but in the last couple of years there were also a number of players from different Christian academies in Summit County. Again, not Catholic feeder schools per OHSAA, but it shows these were families who opted out of Akron Public Schools for grade school, so odds are that APS wasn't in their plans for them for HS either.
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  #44  
Old 04-05-18, 07:46 PM
SeeYaSometime SeeYaSometime is offline
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Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
I went to their web site yesterday and they no longer list what areas a kid can "earn" a scholarship from them. They do say they have two million in aid handed out each year based on need. The price tag on a high school tuition per year is over $21,000.

For what it's worth, the site also says 529 college savings can be used to pay high school tuition. Something I did not know. Anyone know if all private school tuition works that way? Seems like an advantage to pay tuition with 529 dollars.


Bottom line is their athletes tend to come from those same families that qualify for portions of the two million set aside for scholarship aid.

Again, I have no real problem with their model myself, as I believe they truly are about giving inner city kids the opportunity for a quality private education. They are not a religious based private school.

As for OHSAA, they thanked me for forwarding the information to them, but gave me no further information as to their view of the situation.
I appreciate your reply.

I do not know the exact yearly tuition but have been told it is the lowest of the 4 Catholic high schools in Summit County. Not only do needy students, and I mean ALL, not just athletes, get finacial aid from the school, they also use the state vouchers.

As far as "their athletes tend to come from those same families that qualify for portions of the two million set aside for scholarship aid" the same can be said for band, MUN members, Drama students, etc. Can you blame parents who want to provide their children with the opportunity to better their circumstances by becoming part of a successful program?

"They are not a religious based private school." What the h3ll do you mean with this comment?
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  #45  
Old 04-05-18, 09:50 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Not all private schools are religious schools.
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  #46  
Old 04-06-18, 03:00 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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This post isn't about StV, rather, it is about all the schools that attract basketball talent (public or private).

Personally, I think the OHSAA should revisit their division structure for basketball. Of all the sports, it's the one that enrollment has almost nothing to do with skill for the top level teams.

A school like Findlay Prep in Nevada can have 12 students and 100% are going to play DI college basketball. Whether we like it or not, basketball is one of the main factors in deciding where to go to High School for some players. When that happens, it skews the competitiveness of the sport.

It's time for the OHSAA to recognize that enrollments are not good indicators of the ability to field a competitive team. There are schools that have 0 DI recruits for the past couple of decades. There are other schools that have 5 DI recruits on their current roster.

For the most part, almost all the schools with 5 DI recruits on their roster are the schools that people question where their players come from. It's far too easy for players to congregate at one school where basketball is played at a high level. Those schools should be playing at the highest level every year.
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  #47  
Old 04-06-18, 03:39 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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So we need to base divisions on how many of the basketball players are ranked on some recruiting website now?
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  #48  
Old 04-06-18, 09:11 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
So we need to base divisions on how many of the basketball players are ranked on some recruiting website now?
Not at all. I proposed something a while ago where the best 64 (or 128) teams in the state regardless of size are invited to the D1 tournament. This would be similar to the NCAA. Making the field of 64 (128) would carry more prestige than winning the D2 Championship. It would be similar to teams making the NCAA tournament, which is more prestigious than winning the NIT Tournament.

Using a computer system, teams would be playing all year hoping to make the top tournament. The rest of the teams would fill out the D2-D4 Tournament based on their enrollment.

IMO, the goal of divisions is to give teams that are too small a chance to have postseason success. When at the end of the season there are legitimate arguments about who is better, the D1, D2, D3, or D4 Champion, I think we have a problem. There is no one out there saying Penn State is better than Villanova. It should be the same in HS basketball.
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  #49  
Old 04-06-18, 09:24 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Not at all. I proposed something a while ago where the best 64 (or 128) teams in the state regardless of size are invited to the D1 tournament. This would be similar to the NCAA. Making the field of 64 (128) would carry more prestige than winning the D2 Championship. It would be similar to teams making the NCAA tournament, which is more prestigious than winning the NIT Tournament.

Using a computer system, teams would be playing all year hoping to make the top tournament. The rest of the teams would fill out the D2-D4 Tournament based on their enrollment.

IMO, the goal of divisions is to give teams that are too small a chance to have postseason success. When at the end of the season there are legitimate arguments about who is better, the D1, D2, D3, or D4 Champion, I think we have a problem. There is no one out there saying Penn State is better than Villanova. It should be the same in HS basketball.
I'd prefer they just eliminate postseason for all high school sports than resort to a "computer system" to decide who's better.
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  #50  
Old 04-06-18, 09:26 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
I'd prefer they just eliminate postseason for all high school sports than resort to a "computer system" to decide who's better.
So you don't like the OHSAA football computer system? It's OK if you don't like it but I think it does a great job of identifying top teams. With basketball, it could be tweaked and make a great tournament for the top teams in the state.
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  #51  
Old 04-06-18, 09:57 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Not at all. I proposed something a while ago where the best 64 (or 128) teams in the state regardless of size are invited to the D1 tournament. This would be similar to the NCAA. Making the field of 64 (128) would carry more prestige than winning the D2 Championship. It would be similar to teams making the NCAA tournament, which is more prestigious than winning the NIT Tournament.

Using a computer system, teams would be playing all year hoping to make the top tournament. The rest of the teams would fill out the D2-D4 Tournament based on their enrollment.

IMO, the goal of divisions is to give teams that are too small a chance to have postseason success. When at the end of the season there are legitimate arguments about who is better, the D1, D2, D3, or D4 Champion, I think we have a problem. There is no one out there saying Penn State is better than Villanova. It should be the same in HS basketball.
Who is saying Marion local or deer Park is better than Moeller? I haven't heard that debate yet.

I think if you asked the kids if they had a choice between winning a state title (regardless of division) or being selected to your super tournament you would find the kids would rather have the trophy and memories of the title run not an invitation.

These are still high school kids...not college athletics. They are very different.

If you wanted to have a tournament of champions then maybe.
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  #52  
Old 04-06-18, 10:02 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
So you don't like the OHSAA football computer system? It's OK if you don't like it but I think it does a great job of identifying top teams. With basketball, it could be tweaked and make a great tournament for the top teams in the state.
The computer system exists because unlike all the other sports, not every team qualifies for the playoffs in football. There has to be a way to see who qualifies in football.
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  #53  
Old 04-06-18, 10:11 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
So you don't like the OHSAA football computer system? It's OK if you don't like it but I think it does a great job of identifying top teams. With basketball, it could be tweaked and make a great tournament for the top teams in the state.
The football computer system does not calculate what divisions teams should be in, it seeds teams in their regions in their division based on a formula using wins and school size. The results are "seeds", not rankings.
My HS's football team was once #5 "seed" in their region and beat the #4 team by 6 TD's in the first round and went on to win a state title. My Div VI team also once had enough computer points to qualify for the Div I playoffs in some regions. Doesn't mean we should have been put in the Div I playoffs or had any business being there. And the Div VI state title we won was just as prestigious as the state title in any other division.

What data would your formula use to place teams in the top basketball division? Would they be invited or required to move up?
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  #54  
Old 04-06-18, 11:56 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
What data would your formula use to place teams in the top basketball division? Would they be invited or required to move up?
That would be up to everyone involved. My personal opinion, use a more detailed computer system than the Harbins. Teams would be invited but could decline to participate at all. If they decline, they don't play any postseason at all.

We are talking about 1920s classifications for assigning divisions. Things are drastically different than they were nearly 100 years ago. It's time we made changes to these classifications that better align with a schools ability to field a competitive team -or- get rid of divisions completely. They have become meaningless when tiny schools have the same ability to field a team as the largest schools on a yearly basis.
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  #55  
Old 04-07-18, 12:01 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Who is saying Marion local or deer Park is better than Moeller? I haven't heard that debate yet.

I think if you asked the kids if they had a choice between winning a state title (regardless of division) or being selected to your super tournament you would find the kids would rather have the trophy and memories of the title run not an invitation.

These are still high school kids...not college athletics. They are very different.

If you wanted to have a tournament of champions then maybe.
Absolute NO to the tournament of champions. That spits in the face of having divisions in the first place.

And yes, you are right. At this moment, winning a divisional championship would be more valuable. But that would change as things moved forward. The season long journey of trying to make "The Tournament" would make regular season games far more interesting. Scheduling would become more important. The early season games would draw more interest. Also, schools that are not basketball magnets would have a chance for more success against comparable teams.
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  #56  
Old 04-07-18, 07:17 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Not at all. I proposed something a while ago where the best 64 (or 128) teams in the state regardless of size are invited to the D1 tournament. This would be similar to the NCAA. Making the field of 64 (128) would carry more prestige than winning the D2 Championship. It would be similar to teams making the NCAA tournament, which is more prestigious than winning the NIT Tournament.

Using a computer system, teams would be playing all year hoping to make the top tournament. The rest of the teams would fill out the D2-D4 Tournament based on their enrollment.

IMO, the goal of divisions is to give teams that are too small a chance to have postseason success. When at the end of the season there are legitimate arguments about who is better, the D1, D2, D3, or D4 Champion, I think we have a problem. There is no one out there saying Penn State is better than Villanova. It should be the same in HS basketball.
Why would any schools below D-1 want to play in the D-1 tourney. Maybe ASVSM that would be about it. ML is not going to beat Moeller in bball.
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  #57  
Old 04-07-18, 07:28 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Personally I would like to see all private schools currently D-1 or D-2 be D-1 and all current D-3 and D-4 private schools moved up to D-2. Use CB formula for the public schools although still do not know how Deer Park had a CB of zero.
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  #58  
Old 04-07-18, 09:18 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Why would any schools below D-1 want to play in the D-1 tourney. Maybe ASVSM that would be about it. ML is not going to beat Moeller in bball.
Why would any non-Power 5 conference want to play in the NCAA tournament? Most of it is just the recognition of being invited. And maybe it would work out the same here. Plus the occasional huge upset (UMBC)or the unexpected tournament run (Loyola) are always possible. Maybe ML couldn't beat Moeller. But would a run to the final 8 or the final 4 be a bigger accomplishment for them than winning a D4 title? It's an interesting proposition. I wonder if any other state has tried it.
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  #59  
Old 04-07-18, 09:29 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Why would any schools below D-1 want to play in the D-1 tourney. Maybe ASVSM that would be about it. ML is not going to beat Moeller in bball.
For basketball, over the past couple of years, I could see Trotwood playing in it. I could see VASJ, Eastmoor, Cornerstone, Deer Park, Wausseon, Lutheran East, Taft, and others playing in it. To me, one big drawback is that, given the seeding, there could be a LOT of travel for schools. Say, for argument's sake, the ML is seeded #64 and Solon is seeded #1. Unless all these games are on weekends (which would stretch out the tournament maybe too far) then that's a long way for the lower seeded team to travel. And, from a fan's perspective, if it were a weekday game, I'm not even sure the ML zealots would be able to come out in full force for a trip to Solon! And would it be fair for the seniors to end their HS careers on a basketball floor half way across the State in front of only a handful of their fans?

Last edited by Irish60; 04-07-18 at 10:13 AM.
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  #60  
Old 04-07-18, 09:38 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
Absolute NO to the tournament of champions. That spits in the face of having divisions in the first place.

And yes, you are right. At this moment, winning a divisional championship would be more valuable. But that would change as things moved forward. The season long journey of trying to make "The Tournament" would make regular season games far more interesting. Scheduling would become more important. The early season games would draw more interest. Also, schools that are not basketball magnets would have a chance for more success against comparable teams.
The most compelling point you make here is making rivalry mid season games have additional meaning.

On the other hand, I am not certain just making the field and doing a one and done as a low ranked small school in the highest level of the tournament would excite kids much. Kids love to strive for that slightly elusive goal but get discouraged quickly when they perceive there is no chance of completing the mission.
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