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  #91  
Old 02-19-18, 09:32 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman View Post
Not to discredit kids who actually get bullied, but it’s and open book - wrestling itself is bullying - “the handlers” know this - easy way out.
"Just the place for a Snark!" the Bellman cried,
As he landed his crew with care;
Supporting each man on the top of the tide
By a finger entwined in his hair.

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true." -- Lewis Carroll
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  #92  
Old 02-19-18, 09:49 AM
dman dman is offline
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You can choose to believe that rules will deter “the handler” or you can face reality they cannot be stopped.
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  #93  
Old 02-19-18, 10:24 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by dman View Post
You can choose to believe that rules will deter “the handler” or you can face reality they cannot be stopped.
I'm just saying the OHSAA can and does reject appeals based upon the Bullying Exemption and that they require extensive documentation to support such appeals. A simple claim, without significant documentation, is not sufficient grounds. 100% factual and 100% irrefutable.

You can keep speaking in the nebulous world of theoreticals....I suppose it is easier than admitting you are wrong.
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  #94  
Old 02-19-18, 10:59 AM
tantal tantal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
Your place of residence (determined by your parent) absolutely determines your options. Both legally and logistically. If you live in the City of Columbus school district, then Upper Arlington Schools are not amongst your options. Neither are Olentangy Schools, because they are closed enrollment. Cleveland John Adams (open enrollment) or Toledo Central Catholic (parochial) are both legal alternatives but are not options due to logistical purposes. if a parent wants their child to attend one those schools, they can make that possible by moving. Fully within their control.

Regardless, the OHSAA is not determining where any child goes to school. That is not within their power or charter. Thus, the OHSAAA is not "marrying" any child to any school...as you asserted in your earlier post.
Things are different in the Columbus area. I'm aware that many of those communities do not allow open enrollment, so there are less options for families. However, many schools allow open enrollment. Where I live, most schools allow open enrollment so parents have many choices, which in my opinion is a good thing.

To your point - Of course OHSAA does not determine where a kid attends school. However, OHSAA is essentially forcing a student-athlete to "be married" to the school he or she chooses to attend their freshman year with this proposal. You either must stay at that school that you chose to attend your freshman year, or pay a very high price for leaving (much like a divorce, I suppose). Am I misunderstanding something? If you leave, you sit out half the season plus the post season, unless you can find a loophole that allows you to avoid the penalty. How is that not an attempt by OHSAA to force a kid to stay put? It's ridiculous. What if the coaching is terrible? What if the kid is bullied? (think of a sport other than wrestling - absolutely a kid could be bullied). What if he or she is cut from a team that only has so many roster spots (say, baseball or basketball) but would likely start at the neighboring school? Obviously, there are many situations in which a kid could really be hamstrung with this proposal. I'm surprised at how many people in this wrestling community are actually for this.
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  #95  
Old 02-19-18, 02:15 PM
executive director executive director is offline
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While I won’t name the specifics out of respect for the family, I have heard of at least one family that plans to look at litigations against the OHSAA if this passes.
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  #96  
Old 02-19-18, 02:55 PM
Smoke Screen Smoke Screen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by executive director View Post
While I won’t name the specifics out of respect for the family, I have heard of at least one family that plans to look at litigations against the OHSAA if this passes.
Yours?
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  #97  
Old 02-19-18, 02:55 PM
Hammerdrill Hammerdrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantal View Post
Things are different in the Columbus area. I'm aware that many of those communities do not allow open enrollment, so there are less options for families. However, many schools allow open enrollment. Where I live, most schools allow open enrollment so parents have many choices, which in my opinion is a good thing.

To your point - Of course OHSAA does not determine where a kid attends school. However, OHSAA is essentially forcing a student-athlete to "be married" to the school he or she chooses to attend their freshman year with this proposal. You either must stay at that school that you chose to attend your freshman year, or pay a very high price for leaving (much like a divorce, I suppose). Am I misunderstanding something? If you leave, you sit out half the season plus the post season, unless you can find a loophole that allows you to avoid the penalty. How is that not an attempt by OHSAA to force a kid to stay put? It's ridiculous. What if the coaching is terrible? What if the kid is bullied? (think of a sport other than wrestling - absolutely a kid could be bullied). What if he or she is cut from a team that only has so many roster spots (say, baseball or basketball) but would likely start at the neighboring school? Obviously, there are many situations in which a kid could really be hamstrung with this proposal. I'm surprised at how many people in this wrestling community are actually for this.
To date, there are 11 exceptions to the transfer "sit out 50% of the season" rule. So probably most kids won't be required to sit out at all.
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  #98  
Old 02-19-18, 05:01 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by executive director View Post
While I won’t name the specifics out of respect for the family, I have heard of at least one family that plans to look at litigations against the OHSAA if this passes.
Garbage
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  #99  
Old 02-19-18, 07:15 PM
Pantherontheporch Pantherontheporch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by executive director View Post
While I won’t name the specifics out of respect for the family, I have heard of at least one family that plans to look at litigations against the OHSAA if this passes.
Good luck with that. I’ll save their attorney some time: Alerding v. Ohio High School Athletic Association, 779 F.2d 315 (1985).
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  #100  
Old 02-19-18, 08:49 PM
NY_OH Sports NY_OH Sports is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Root View Post
I've been in the public sector coaching my entire career up until this season... My view has never changed: families are going to do what they feel gives them a competitive advantage in regards to earning a scholarship if their son is at that level. Be it transferring to another public school, a private school, or staying with their community team and getting extra work in the off-season. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, I'm saying that it's a families decision in my opinion.

If I had to bet, I would bet that most of the kids that transfer based on what we'll call athletic reason, are more likely to play that sport in college. In other words, the families that are willing to do whatever it takes to improve their chances usually have a career path that lasts beyond high school. By no means am I saying that individuals can't get it done at their home/community school... I'm simply saying, that if a family is willing to move for the sport, then that sport is pretty important to them and the likelihood of competing after high school is probably high based on that built in belief and desire. It's not any higher than a similarly committed wrestler who stays at their community school, but the families willingness to do in their opinion "whatever it takes" is a strong indicator.

The reality is that those that want to change schools will make it work. It would be nice to appreciate the wrestler for their skill set and not based on whether they are part of a select community. It's even more sad to watch people root against a wrestler that left for their own reasons.


Coach Root
We need more coaches with your mindset. I have no doubt that many wrestlers (and parents) are drawn to a program such as yours. If they are fully committed, but don't have the environment to succeed, they either make the move or wish they did later.
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  #101  
Old 02-20-18, 07:46 AM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
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What constitutes “second half” for wrestling? Currently you must sit out 10 points before you can participate.
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  #102  
Old 02-20-18, 07:55 AM
SCORE2WIN SCORE2WIN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakedownFor2 View Post
What constitutes “second half” for wrestling? Currently you must sit out 10 points before you can participate.
I'm spit balling here but my guess would be that they would be eligible for the first 10 points of the season. Then have to sit after that.
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  #103  
Old 02-20-18, 11:16 AM
VinceD VinceD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
I bet you're still upset Betamax lost to VHS.

Same old Said...devoid of honor and morals. Got my money from that bet? Needless to say, I am Back.
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  #104  
Old 02-20-18, 08:30 PM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORE2WIN View Post
I'm spit balling here but my guess would be that they would be eligible for the first 10 points of the season. Then have to sit after that.
Right that’s my point. But I think they could just wrestle any 10 points they want except state tourney time. Right?
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  #105  
Old 02-20-18, 08:45 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCORE2WIN View Post
I'm spit balling here but my guess would be that they would be eligible for the first 10 points of the season. Then have to sit after that.
It's half of scheduled events "up to" 10 points. If a team schedules only 18 points, the wrestler sits for 9 and is eligible to wrestle 9. This distinction bit Dayton Christian in the hiney a few years back. And they have to be consecutive, not cafeteria style.
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  #106  
Old 02-21-18, 07:55 AM
standup standup is offline
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What if your son now attends a private high school, and because of finances,
Chooses to next year attend the public school in which the city they live.
Is that an exception?
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  #107  
Old 02-21-18, 08:01 AM
Suplexer130 Suplexer130 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by executive director View Post
While I won’t name the specifics out of respect for the family, I have heard of at least one family that plans to look at litigations against the OHSAA if this passes.
They will lose.
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  #108  
Old 02-21-18, 08:03 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by standup View Post
What if your son now attends a private high school, and because of finances,
Chooses to next year attend the public school in which the city they live.
Is that an exception?
Historically, I believe leaving a private school to return to one's native public school has been treated differently from the reverse. Presumably for the precise reason you suggest above. I'm not sure if that is still the case. I haven't read the proposed changes.
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  #109  
Old 02-21-18, 08:12 AM
standup standup is offline
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Thanks Lambeau.
I will contact the OHSAA
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  #110  
Old 02-21-18, 11:28 AM
rjewards rjewards is offline
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just move....come on...its that easy
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  #111  
Old 02-21-18, 12:17 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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Originally Posted by rjewards View Post
just move....come on...its that easy
Actually it's not, the move has to be 50+ miles.
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  #112  
Old 02-21-18, 12:32 PM
severs0801 severs0801 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Actually it's not, the move has to be 50+ miles.
I have a new job working in Canton, its 49 miles. It is over an hour drive for me now. I'm sure they have to cut slack for legit moves.
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  #113  
Old 02-21-18, 01:03 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Actually it's not, the move has to be 50+ miles.
Huh? Where did this 50+ mile come from?
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  #114  
Old 02-21-18, 01:03 PM
CoachHoversten CoachHoversten is offline
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Late to the party, but on page 3, PROV1 said "2016-2017 was highest participation in last 10 years".

I would like to put my 2 cents in on this...

Perhaps the proper phrase shouldn't be that participation is down across the board, but it is in high intensity athletics. My MS wrestled against a Cleveland suburb MS team and they had 9 guys on the team, but their bowling team had 50+.

Local D1 colleges are offering scholarships for video gaming now.

Final thought....some small D2 and D3 schools field full varsity lineups because they have strong COMMUNITY based youth programs. This is partially by default, as rural areas are more spread out and so getting to a different program would be inconvenient, but they have a lineup of kids that started young, stayed together, and wrestle for their HS because that is what is "normal".

Go out to higher density populations, and there are 10 club teams within 20 miles of anywhere you are, plus 10 private HS schools that offer athletics as well, and the total participation may be the same (or higher), but it is so spread out that no one can field full lineups.

Easy example...last school district I worked at, I had 42 kids on my MS team. (2 grades) . HS team had 25 (4 grades).

Now, only one of those 4 grades at HS had me as a MS coach, but my point is, some chose to focus on their "first sport" in HS (whatever they played growing up) , some decide it isn't for them, and worse, some of the most talented "took their talents elsewhere" because there was no "allegiance" to the local HS because they grew up training in this city or that city, sometimes multiple cities in the same week (one boy I coached went to a diff club team every night, so like 4 clubs a week)

Then a kid goes to a HS, isn't varsity as a freshman, and wants to transfer so he can be elsewhere.

It is what it is, I don't have answers, just sharing my thoughts.
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  #115  
Old 02-21-18, 01:24 PM
jmog jmog is offline
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The 50 miles I had just heard from someone else.

I looked it up, and it appears that if it is a "bonafide move" as in both parents move and both parents and the child live in the new residence, then they can have the 50% waived.

The distance clause is 100 miles, if only one parent moves and they can explain why the other parent had to "stay behind", this move has to be over 100 miles to wave the 50% rule.

Some other exceptions to both parents moving in a "bonafide" move is if the parents are in the process of a divorce and this can be proven.

It appears there is no distance requirement for any "bonafide" move.

So sell your house, buy a new one, legitimately move the whole family there, and one can transfer anywhere and apply to avoid the 50% loss.
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  #116  
Old 02-21-18, 01:30 PM
Coach Root Coach Root is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by executive director View Post
While I won’t name the specifics out of respect for the family, I have heard of at least one family that plans to look at litigations against the OHSAA if this passes.
I guess it would depend on what basis the claim is... I can't see the OHSAA losing this battle though. I've seen them back down with regards to eligibility of certain individuals, I've seen then reverse direction on penalties... but i don't see them losing a lawsuit over establishing/changing their own rules, especially with the exceptions they already have in place allowing the transfers under certain circumstances. I think more than likely you'll see a soft stance with a few of the exceptions the first year if this passes, but who knows. I think the ruling hurts individuals, while it's focus is on stopping teams...


Coach Root
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  #117  
Old 02-21-18, 03:56 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by jmog View Post
The 50 miles I had just heard from someone else.
I do believe 50 miles was the old standard (along with other factors)
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  #118  
Old 02-21-18, 04:22 PM
ProV1 ProV1 is offline
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Simple solution...get rid of open enrollment. You can go to the school if you live in the district. Forget policing the legitimacy of transfers and moves. If a family wants to establish a legitimate new residence within a district, let the kid go to school and fully participate.
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  #119  
Old 02-21-18, 06:45 PM
Huge Huge is offline
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What does any of this have to do with wrestling. Control what you can control and let the chips fall where they may. If you want it to be easy move to a small town in a non-wrestling state. Otherwise live where you want go to school where you want and wrestle where'd you want. Why waste time worrying about this crap?
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  #120  
Old 02-21-18, 07:06 PM
grapeape grapeape is offline
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There's always someone trying to skirt the rules.
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