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  #331  
Old 05-18-17, 08:50 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Ugh this is really stupid. I don't understand.
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  #332  
Old 05-18-17, 08:52 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpin2010 View Post
So I guess the 3rd option would join a league where the travel is an hour+ to league constests. Canfield and Howland don't have much leverage or anything to fall back. If they want local games/league they'll either have to poney up and potentially put aside their differences with the Catholics or be stuck with a ton of travel which will grow very old quickly. Just because schools have a sport or 2 that travel a lot due lack of teams means they want to start having their whole athletic program doing the same.
The Suburban league needs a replacement for Green or Cloverleaf, and Canfield is a good fit for size and competitiveness, Canfield would be doing the majority of the traveling similar to when Boardman was the only Youngstown team in the Fed. Keep in mind Canfield has done a lot of traveling for other sports in the past as well, when I was in high school we traveled for one sport to play Upper Arlington, Kings (Cincy), St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Xavier, St. Ignatius, St. Charles (Columbus), and Sycamore (Cincy). So if any school in the area will do it, it will be Canfield, given the current situation.

Howland is either going to have to look into forming a league such as
Fitch, Harding, Boardman, East, Mooney, Ursuline, and Louisville
or they will have to be independent and struggle to fill out their schedules every year and possibly have open dates not filled even in football. Howland is more in the category of SOL I think especially since they are open enrollment and several leagues don't allow such schools.
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  #333  
Old 05-18-17, 09:06 PM
BTrev BTrev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHSspartans13 View Post
Well tbh if you start with the fall of 2015 which is when things really got complicated, it took a mere 2.5 years lol. But many of us expected it.
True. Things really didn't get too crazy until recently. But I don't think that the 3 tiered super conference idea was ever very popular.

In hindsight, it would've been better off for the MAC and TAC to join together and form 2 separate conferences back in 2008.

What they did...

Red -
Canfield
Howland
Poland
Niles
Beaver Local

White -
Hubbard
Struthers
Salem
Lakeview
Liberty

Blue -
Girard
LaBrae
Campbell
Champion
Newton Falls
Maybe Brookfield?

What they should've done...

Big -
Canfield
Howland
Poland
Niles
Hubbard
Struthers
Salem
Beaver Local

Little -
Lakeview
Liberty
Girard
LaBrae
Campbell
Champion
Newton Falls
Brookfield

That 3 tiered nonsense was a joke from the start.

Last edited by BTrev; 05-18-17 at 09:52 PM.
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  #334  
Old 05-19-17, 07:35 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by Spread All Day View Post
Ugh this is really stupid. I don't understand.
This is what happens when you try to please everyone.... especially a bunch of babies
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  #335  
Old 05-19-17, 08:09 AM
smartestdumbguy01 smartestdumbguy01 is offline
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Looks like this is a done deal if those schools are up to the challenge of organizing a new league. I don't think at the end of the day Jefferson is one of those "7" schools rumored to be leaving. So that leaves 6 schools but I have a feeling a school like Girard might regret going down this road competitively.
If they can get South Range, who has a league, and Crestview, who doesn't have a league, to join them, then they have something.

Don't really see the point of all this but whatever makes ya happy...

Last edited by smartestdumbguy01; 05-19-17 at 11:15 AM.
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  #336  
Old 05-19-17, 09:44 AM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Why would they want either of them two? Doesn't make sense with the size gap. Jefferson has like no options so I think they'll stick. Girard will come too.
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  #337  
Old 05-19-17, 10:59 AM
Stack Attack Stack Attack is offline
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This is whole thing is just absurd.
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  #338  
Old 05-19-17, 11:20 AM
smartestdumbguy01 smartestdumbguy01 is offline
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Spread,

Jefferson is in the blue tier with NF, Champion. LaBrae, Brookfield, Edgewood, Campbell, and Liberty. That, at least to me, sounds like a much better option for them, especially in revenue driven sports such as football and basketball...less travel as well. Under no circumstances do I think Jefferson joins that league...unless they think the blue tier of AAC is unstable which isn't the case because those schools actually have no other options.
Girard will absolute come and get slaughtered...as their enrollment deflates, which I think will happen, they will have to look for another option. They have struggled to compete with the other blue tier teams in sports the last 2-3 years so it seems odd they are willing to make that jump...but like I said...whatever makes ya happy.
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  #339  
Old 05-19-17, 11:30 AM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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I doubt the Federal league is an option for the larger tier. Those schools wouldn't be joining the league to be in the league, they would be joining the league until they figured something else out and then bolt. I think that deal is played out.

why are all these schools posturing about who they will or won't play, just get 8 schools make a league and be done with it. - everybody trying to be the big fish in little pond
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  #340  
Old 05-19-17, 11:44 AM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartestdumbguy01 View Post
Spread,

Jefferson is in the blue tier with NF, Champion. LaBrae, Brookfield, Edgewood, Campbell, and Liberty. That, at least to me, sounds like a much better option for them, especially in revenue driven sports such as football and basketball...less travel as well. Under no circumstances do I think Jefferson joins that league...unless they think the blue tier of AAC is unstable which isn't the case because those schools actually have no other options.
Girard will absolute come and get slaughtered...as their enrollment deflates, which I think will happen, they will have to look for another option. They have struggled to compete with the other blue tier teams in sports the last 2-3 years so it seems odd they are willing to make that jump...but like I said...whatever makes ya happy.
Jefferson has been white tier for a while. They just got moved to blue with this shake up. Girard might get killed and they probably are a better fit for the blue but for some reason their administration is on board. They would know what they're getting themselves into with this. Crestview and range just don't make any sense to me.
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  #341  
Old 05-19-17, 12:16 PM
BHSspartans13 BHSspartans13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Football 101 View Post
I doubt the Federal league is an option for the larger tier. Those schools wouldn't be joining the league to be in the league, they would be joining the league until they figured something else out and then bolt. I think that deal is played out.

why are all these schools posturing about who they will or won't play, just get 8 schools make a league and be done with it. - everybody trying to be the big fish in little pond
But for Boardman, there isn't anything else to figure out. They pretty much exhausted the local option. Boardman made it known repeatedly to Federal League officials that they were satisfied in the league and only left when they were offered admission to a league that promised a full league schedule in all sports including football. The new league set up without any crossovers basically makes them independents. Also I'm pretty sure the Fed sponsors lacrosse, and that would enable less travel for Boardman's teams. I can't speak for Fitch (who other than Annarella didn't like the league) or Harding, but it wouldn't surprise me if Boardman explored going back to the Federal League, even if it were alone. They'd still have 3 slots to add Mooney and Fitch at the very least. Maybe Ursuline/Howland/Canfield for the last one.
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  #342  
Old 05-19-17, 12:25 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Originally Posted by BHSspartans13 View Post
They'd still have 3 slots to add Mooney and Fitch at the very least. Maybe Ursuline/Howland/Canfield for the last one.
I don't see a scenario where Canfield would want to play Boardman. Ursuline would want to play Boardman right? Howland may have no other choice but to play Boardman just to fill out their schedule.
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  #343  
Old 05-19-17, 12:37 PM
BHSspartans13 BHSspartans13 is offline
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Originally Posted by simkon View Post
I don't see a scenario where Canfield would want to play Boardman. Ursuline would want to play Boardman right? Howland may have no other choice but to play Boardman just to fill out their schedule.
Boardman has a 2 year deal with Howland starting this coming fall and it seems like we are playing Canfield for another 2 years. And considering Canfield just won the last meeting I'd be surprised they would want to back out so soon. Ursuline would be a more regular yes but the fact that Howland and Canfield don't want to play even 2 or 3 games against larger schools is why they are in the predicament they are in. And look at the larger scope of the AAC Red. Howland just won the title in baseball and Canfield is off to the regionals in softball. It's not like they're out of the loop in terms of overall competitiveness. In fact I'd wager that Boardman, Canfield, and Howland own the most league titles. Harding only has boys basketball and Fitch I think just boys track (girls tied with Boardman I think).
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  #344  
Old 05-19-17, 12:37 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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If Brookfield could manage an independent schedule for a few years, Howland could
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  #345  
Old 05-19-17, 01:09 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHSspartans13 View Post
Boardman has a 2 year deal with Howland starting this coming fall and it seems like we are playing Canfield for another 2 years. And considering Canfield just won the last meeting I'd be surprised they would want to back out so soon. Ursuline would be a more regular yes but the fact that Howland and Canfield don't want to play even 2 or 3 games against larger schools is why they are in the predicament they are in.
Well there is a difference between playing larger schools and playing a school with twice as many kids as you such as Austintown Fitch who also has open enrollment. Boardman and Harding usually have about 600-700 more than Canfield as well.
Canfield might have to join the Suburban league or another similar sized league if they want to be in a league, and if they do that then they will already be playing up quite a bit as they would one of the smaller schools in the Suburban League. Canfield has like 350 boys compared to Barberton 507, Highland 480, Copley 475, Kent Roosevelt 475 etc Pretty much all the teams would be at least D-II except for Tallmadge and Revere, and every school would have more boys except for Tallmadge.
I am not even sure what other leagues are in Northeast Ohio with D-III schools or D-II and D-III. Anyone want to inform me?

By the way Canfield generally had scheduled a few larger divisions schools or otherwise very good teams every year. Ex Austintown Fitch twice, Aurora twice, Dover (7-8 years), Kent Roosevelt twice, Canal Fulton Northwest, Louisville (5 years or so), Ellet (10-0 (D-II) in 2013), in 2010 an undefeated Maple Heights (15-0 state champs who's closest non playoff game was to Canfield), & Kenston (formerly D-I).
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  #346  
Old 05-19-17, 02:22 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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I wonder how bad the admins in Canfield and Howland are scrambling. This creates some real bad blood between schools which isn't any good.
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  #347  
Old 05-19-17, 03:34 PM
Paladin1aa Paladin1aa is offline
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It is..................









Warren JFK
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  #348  
Old 05-19-17, 04:05 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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Lol
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  #349  
Old 05-19-17, 04:23 PM
BHSspartans13 BHSspartans13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simkon View Post
Well there is a difference between playing larger schools and playing a school with twice as many kids as you such as Austintown Fitch who also has open enrollment. Boardman and Harding usually have about 600-700 more than Canfield as well.
Canfield might have to join the Suburban league or another similar sized league if they want to be in a league, and if they do that then they will already be playing up quite a bit as they would one of the smaller schools in the Suburban League. Canfield has like 350 boys compared to Barberton 507, Highland 480, Copley 475, Kent Roosevelt 475 etc Pretty much all the teams would be at least D-II except for Tallmadge and Revere, and every school would have more boys except for Tallmadge.
I am not even sure what other leagues are in Northeast Ohio with D-III schools or D-II and D-III. Anyone want to inform me?

By the way Canfield generally had scheduled a few larger divisions schools or otherwise very good teams every year. Ex Austintown Fitch twice, Aurora twice, Dover (7-8 years), Kent Roosevelt twice, Canal Fulton Northwest, Louisville (5 years or so), Ellet (10-0 (D-II) in 2013), in 2010 an undefeated Maple Heights (15-0 state champs who's closest non playoff game was to Canfield), & Kenston (formerly D-I).

I definitely understand Canfield not wanting to play Fitch. Since they went OE they have gotten much larger than Boardman. Around 07 we were actually the same size as Fitch but now the gap from Fitch to Boardman is almost as large as Boardman to Canfield (or Howland). The Suburban League (American) has D3 Tallmage and Revere with a bunch of D2 schools. But I don't think Canfield would want to go all the way out to Medina County for 2 schools. The bottom line is that there just aren't enough big schools in the MV, but if the D1-3 schools didn't mind traveling they could try and get in a few leagues about an hourish away.
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  #350  
Old 05-19-17, 05:46 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHSspartans13 View Post
I definitely understand Canfield not wanting to play Fitch. Since they went OE they have gotten much larger than Boardman. Around 07 we were actually the same size as Fitch but now the gap from Fitch to Boardman is almost as large as Boardman to Canfield (or Howland). The Suburban League (American) has D3 Tallmage and Revere with a bunch of D2 schools. But I don't think Canfield would want to go all the way out to Medina County for 2 schools. The bottom line is that there just aren't enough big schools in the MV, but if the D1-3 schools didn't mind traveling they could try and get in a few leagues about an hourish away.
The problem is that the only school in the area that is consistently similar in enrollment to Canfield is Howland, every other school of similar size is probably at least 45 minutes away if not over an hour away. Boardman, Fitch and Harding are the only really big schools in the area, which is why the former two schools were in the Fed for lack of anyone else around this area. And Harding was in the Lake Erie League up by Cleveland.

The issue I think is with the other D-III and larger D-IV schools that object to playing schools like Canfield and other more competitive D-III schools just because they are having a down period or aren't as competitive on a regular basis. Like I said before Howland is slightly different because it has open enrollment and they usually have a larger enrollment than Canfield. The schools are too overly concerned with enrollment numbers when the kids who are playing the games could care less and just want to play the games regardless of the size of their opponent.

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  #351  
Old 05-19-17, 07:30 PM
redtiger redtiger is offline
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It seems all the schools are concerned too much about enrollment numbers. Poland, Canfield, and Howland belong in the same league. Howland is not growing in enrollment. In the long run I think Poland and Howland will continue to be competitive in football and boys basketball which drive league membership. Also Hubbard is a match for any of these three schools in football and competes pretty well in some of the other sports.

I remember when Poland used to really step up and played one of the best non-league schedules in football, they also opted to go up for 2 years (I believe) and play in the Red Tier in boys basketball even though their enrollment was White Tier numbers. What has happened to that?
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  #352  
Old 05-19-17, 07:36 PM
Paladin1aa Paladin1aa is offline
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I know for some, the problem really is numbers . Enrollment for many are not only dropping now, but show even smaller enrollment all the way back to kindergarten. Coaches and administrators simply are looking at fair competition. The proposed new league would offer super competition for a small D-III/IV league. And let's be frank, Howland and Canfield don't want to play bigger schools. Too bad - make out your schedule and play.

And some schools may have to again look at other leagues in the future as they continue to drop Enrollment and others stay stable creating a bigger gap of two divisions or more. Nothing is permanent.

Last edited by Paladin1aa; 05-19-17 at 07:51 PM.
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  #353  
Old 05-19-17, 08:06 PM
Spartan0505 Spartan0505 is offline
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Boardman, Fitch and Harding might as well go independent in football.
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  #354  
Old 05-19-17, 08:47 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin1aa View Post
I know for some, the problem really is numbers . Enrollment for many are not only dropping now, but show even smaller enrollment all the way back to kindergarten. Coaches and administrators simply are looking at fair competition. The proposed new league would offer super competition for a small D-III/IV league. And let's be frank, Howland and Canfield don't want to play bigger schools. Too bad - make out your schedule and play.
Why should Canfield have to play D-I schools when Poland, Niles et al are D-III and a lot closer in enrollment. I could understand if Canfield didn't play Boardman but guess what they do play them even though they have like 600 more than them usually. And Canfield played Fitch twice too which has almost twice the enrollment. So I can't see how you can say that, see my list of who they have played in the past 15 years or so...
Quote:
Ex [Boardman twice], Austintown Fitch twice, Aurora twice, Dover (7-8 years), Kent Roosevelt twice, Canal Fulton Northwest, Louisville (5 years or so), Ellet (10-0 (D-II) in 2013), in 2010 an undefeated Maple Heights (15-0 state champs who's closest non playoff game was to Canfield), & Kenston (formerly D-I).
All of these teams were/are a higher division than Canfield with the exception of Dover and Canal Fulton granted a few of them are currently in the same division but they were not necessarily when they played them.

I generally don't say something like this but I will say it, in this particular case your statement is not really accurate as least as it pertains to Canfield, I don't think Howland played any larger schools with the exception of Harding, but someone can correct me is I am wrong, like I said I am not familiar with their exact schedules the past 10-15 years. So you may have a valid point with Howland but not really with Canfield.

The problem really is that the D-III and D-IV schools don't want to play Canfield [and Howland], even though Canfield is closed enrollment and is the same division as several of them and much closer in enrollment to the D-IV schools than they are to Boardman and Harding not to mention Fitch. You are comparing apples to oranges here, playing a school with 100 more kids compared to playing a school with twice the enrollment of Canfield in the likes of Fitch. Not knowing schools if you just saw a table of enrollments, the only logical thing would be for Harding, Boardman and Fitch to do their thing whether that be the Fed or independent, for all the D-III and D-IV schools to be in a leagues and for all the D-V and lower schools to be in a league...
it is pretty simple really.
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  #355  
Old 05-19-17, 09:00 PM
Raider#23 Raider#23 is offline
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South Range and Crestview are trying to fill that eighth spot in the new league. Range would rather play Mahoning/Trumbull county schools than to travel over an hour to some of the EBC schools. As far as Crestview, most schools that are looking to form this new league aren't thrilled about traveling to Crestview, so Range has the inside track to be added to the new league.
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  #356  
Old 05-19-17, 09:13 PM
Struthersfan Struthersfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Raider#23 View Post
South Range and Crestview are trying to fill that eighth spot in the new league. Range would rather play Mahoning/Trumbull county schools than to travel over an hour to some of the EBC schools. As far as Crestview, most schools that are looking to form this new league aren't thrilled about traveling to Crestview, so Range has the inside track to be added to the new league.
Have to agree with you on this one. South Range is the more attractive option for the new league. A bit closer (travel wise) to many of the schools and has been playing some of the schools in various sports.

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  #357  
Old 05-19-17, 09:23 PM
Paladin1aa Paladin1aa is offline
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Simkon , stop your whining. Accept that several schools are dropping in enrollment and will continue to for over a decade. Leagues are formed with " like" members. This was discussed. Numbers shared. If you don't want to accept that, form a new league - beaver local, East Liverpool, Salem, WestBranch, East, Chaney, Ravenna, Marlington, etc. All you are promoting is to play in a league of smaller schools who will only get smaller.You are my hero.
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  #358  
Old 05-19-17, 09:41 PM
simkon simkon is offline
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Originally Posted by Paladin1aa View Post
Simkon , stop your whining. Accept that several schools are dropping in enrollment and will continue to for over a decade. Leagues are formed with " like" members. This was discussed. Numbers shared. If you don't want to accept that, form a new league...All you are promoting is to play in a league of smaller schools who will only get smaller.You are my hero.
I am just saying if a team is D-III then they should play other D-III schools. If a school isn't D-III anymore then they can switch leagues then, but right now Canfield is D-III and so are several other teams. If Canfield goes up to D-II then they can show themselves the door, but until then the most logical thing is for a D-III school to be in a league with other D-III schools.

If I was going to list similar schools to Canfield I wouldn't list Boardman, Austintown Fitch or Warren Harding. I would probably list Poland first before anyone else as the most similar school incidentally.

These teams may be declining in enrollment but they are still much closer in enrollment to Canfield than Canfield is to Fitch et al.
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  #359  
Old 05-19-17, 10:03 PM
BHSspartans13 BHSspartans13 is offline
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I agree with simkon though. Honestly there's no excuse for Howland, Canfield, and Poland to not be in a league with other D3's and a couple D4's. Considering there's 7 divisions, the difference between a 3 and 4 shouldn't be viewed as that much. It's really the D1's that are far and away larger than most others. The gap from Canfield to Poland is likely smaller than the one from Fitch to Boardman, for example.
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  #360  
Old 05-19-17, 10:24 PM
Spread All Day Spread All Day is offline
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What makes anyone think Poland wants that? They don't. At all lol. Poland is going to be down for the next couple of years.
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