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  #1  
Old 05-19-17, 11:26 AM
Peterson Peterson is offline
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GCL All sports trophy results

St. X wins again (thx to the country club sports)


Standings



SCHOOL

FALL

WINTER

SPRING

TOTAL
St. Xavier 28 18 26 total 72
La Salle 24 22 16 total 62
Moeller 12 20 22 total 54
Elder 16 20 16 total 52
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  #2  
Old 05-19-17, 11:45 AM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterson View Post
St. X wins again (thx to the country club sports)


Standings



SCHOOL

FALL

WINTER

SPRING

TOTAL
St. Xavier 28 18 26 total 72
La Salle 24 22 16 total 62
Moeller 12 20 22 total 54
Elder 16 20 16 total 52
Not to sound bitter about Elder finishing last, but the trophy is irrelevant for the reason you just mentioned. It should be weighted 60% football, 20% bball, 10% baseball and divide up the remaining 10% to the other sports equally. A state runner up in bball is a hell of a lot more impressive than any swimming title.
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  #3  
Old 05-19-17, 12:06 PM
Peterson Peterson is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Not to sound bitter about Elder finishing last, but the trophy is irrelevant for the reason you just mentioned. It should be weighted 60% football, 20% bball, 10% baseball and divide up the remaining 10% to the other sports equally. A state runner up in bball is a hell of a lot more impressive than any swimming title.
Using this formula....what would the standings be?
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  #4  
Old 05-19-17, 12:20 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
A state runner up in bball is a hell of a lot more impressive than any swimming title.
Correct me if I am wrong, but these standings don't take into account postseason results. They are solely based on standings in the GCL-S competitions from the regular season.
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  #5  
Old 05-19-17, 12:23 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by Peterson View Post
Using this formula....what would the standings be?
Not sure.Does the current formula factor in post season success? If it does, I would think the list stays the same.

From an Elder perspective, knowledgable fans knew this would be an average year across the big 3. Next year, I'd expect a material improvement from football and baseball with a noticeable drop from bball.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-17, 12:48 PM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
A state runner up in bball is a hell of a lot more impressive than any swimming title.
Pboy gonna Pboy.
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  #7  
Old 05-19-17, 12:53 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by EHS 2001 View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but these standings don't take into account postseason results. They are solely based on standings in the GCL-S competitions from the regular season.
You are correct. They only take into account GCL records/results. Each sport is given a point total usually 8 for first place, 6 for 2nd, 4 for 3rd and 2nd for last. If two teams tie for 2nd, they each get 5. So the total allotment of points given is 20 for each sport.
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  #8  
Old 05-19-17, 01:09 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by MickeyMantle View Post
Pboy gonna Pboy.
??? It's true and that's why this trophy is irrelevant.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-17, 01:10 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
You are correct. They only take into account GCL records/results. Each sport is given a point total usually 8 for first place, 6 for 2nd, 4 for 3rd and 2nd for last. If two teams tie for 2nd, they each get 5. So the total allotment of points given is 20 for each sport.
Dumb. First place in bowling should not be equivalent to First Place in Football. Not all sports are created equal. And I know we have to be PC and can't publicly say that, which is why the trophy is useless.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-17, 01:10 PM
GCLFan99 GCLFan99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Not to sound bitter about Elder finishing last, but the trophy is irrelevant for the reason you just mentioned. It should be weighted 60% football, 20% bball, 10% baseball and divide up the remaining 10% to the other sports equally. A state runner up in bball is a hell of a lot more impressive than any swimming title.
Its called the "All Sports Trophy", not called the "Weighted All Sports Trophy" When that change occurs then I would agree with your statement. Until that time......
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  #11  
Old 05-19-17, 01:16 PM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
??? It's true and that's why this trophy is irrelevant.
I enjoy football and baseball (and to a much lesser degree, basketball) more than swimming. But your statement is absurd. You can't base an all-sports trophy on attendance or popularity.

Swimmers are amazing athletes. Winning even a district title in an individual swimming event in SW Ohio is among the most impressive thing a high school kid can do around here. I haven't encountered many athletes more impressive than Ashley Volpenhein and Grant House the past few years.
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  #12  
Old 05-19-17, 01:18 PM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Dumb. First place in bowling should not be equivalent to First Place in Football. Not all sports are created equal. And I know we have to be PC and can't publicly say that, which is why the trophy is useless.
The funny thing is that any "country club" athlete around town would eat you alive in any athletic competition you choose.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-17, 01:29 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by MickeyMantle View Post
I enjoy football and baseball (and to a much lesser degree, basketball) more than swimming. But your statement is absurd. You can't base an all-sports trophy on attendance or popularity.

Swimmers are amazing athletes. Winning even a district title in an individual swimming event in SW Ohio is among the most impressive thing a high school kid can do around here. I haven't encountered many athletes more impressive than Ashley Volpenhein and Grant House the past few years.
If the trophy is awarded as a point of pride, then do it the right way.
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  #14  
Old 05-19-17, 01:29 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by MickeyMantle View Post
The funny thing is that any "country club" athlete around town would eat you alive in any athletic competition you choose.
Benchpress, let's do it
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  #15  
Old 05-19-17, 01:31 PM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Benchpress, let's do it
Reach out to a swimmer on Twitter and set it up. I bet you wouldn't like the result.
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  #16  
Old 05-19-17, 02:10 PM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Originally Posted by Peterson View Post
Using this formula....what would the standings be?
I think we're still looking at last place.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-17, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
I think we're still looking at last place.
I think LS and X would flip spots, Moe and E stay 3rd and 4th
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  #18  
Old 05-19-17, 02:58 PM
CincyHSfootball CincyHSfootball is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Benchpress, let's do it
Ah Pboy, I don't think so. They would take you down in a heartbeat. These are not your father's swimmers. These kids remind me of wrestlers in many respects. Disciplined and weight trained. The ones I know are some tough kids. The work their azzes off for very little attention.

But isn't that what high school sports are all about. The chance to train, compete, strive, fail, fall, get back up and move forward and achieve something good. The purpose of sports to balance these young boys and girls lives with their academic life. To be part of something no matter what sport they play.

That's also the purpose of a high school all sports trophy. Giving a little recognition to a high school that offers many athletic options for the development of ALL students that strive to compete. No more No less. But the development of all young people at high schools to become well rounded adults is something that is hard for you to comprehend.

Last edited by CincyHSfootball; 05-19-17 at 04:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-19-17, 04:36 PM
epanther epanther is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Benchpress, let's do it
Lol I got $100 that says Pboy couldn't beat a single kid on the st X swim team at bench pressing.

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...bob-muscle.gif
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  #20  
Old 05-19-17, 04:47 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by CincyHSfootball View Post
Ah Pboy, I don't think so. They would take you down in a heartbeat. These are not your father's swimmers. These kids remind me of wrestlers in many respects. Disciplined and weight trained. The ones I know are some tough kids. The work their azzes off for very little attention.

But isn't that what high school sports are all about. The chance to train, compete, strive, fail, fall, get back up and move forward and achieve something good. The purpose of sports to balance these young boys and girls lives with their academic life. To be part of something no matter what sport they play.

That's also the purpose of a high school all sports trophy. Giving a little recognition to a high school that offers many athletic options for the development of ALL students that strive to compete. No more No less. But the development of all young people at high schools to become well rounded adults is something that is hard for you to comprehend.
By and large athletic success of a school is measured by the big 3. Not diminishing the work the kids put in outisde of the big 3, but to give an award that treats all sports as equal is useless. Even the kids know their sports aren't as important to the school, they have eyes, they can look into the crowd and see it's just parents.
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  #21  
Old 05-19-17, 08:43 PM
Peterson Peterson is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
By and large athletic success of a school is measured by the big 3. Not diminishing the work the kids put in outisde of the big 3, but to give an award that treats all sports as equal is useless. Even the kids know their sports aren't as important to the school, they have eyes, they can look into the crowd and see it's just parents.
On a whole 'other topic...I get football and basketball being in the "big 3" as is traditionally called. But any more; baseball-at least at the high school level-from an attendance standpoint is not in the "big 3". Yes, at the college and pro level obviously-but at the high school level-who really gives a rat's rear end about high school baseball.
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  #22  
Old 05-19-17, 10:00 PM
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PantherVOR PantherVOR is offline
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Pboy gonna Pboy.
No doubt, so predictable!
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  #23  
Old 05-19-17, 10:14 PM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
By and large athletic success of a school is measured by the big 3. Not diminishing the work the kids put in outisde of the big 3, but to give an award that treats all sports as equal is useless. Even the kids know their sports aren't as important to the school, they have eyes, they can look into the crowd and see it's just parents.
Packed houses at the Southwest Ohio Classic at X and the districts at Miami U. The crowds there during a close sprint race or really any relay are as electric as it comes in high school. Yet, the kids in this area who have gone on to swim at Alabama, USC, Arizona, Stanford and others likely not too concerned with your nonsensical views on the importance of their sport.
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Old 05-20-17, 01:12 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by Peterson View Post
On a whole 'other topic...I get football and basketball being in the "big 3" as is traditionally called. But any more; baseball-at least at the high school level-from an attendance standpoint is not in the "big 3". Yes, at the college and pro level obviously-but at the high school level-who really gives a rat's rear end about high school baseball.
In this state, it's still pretty important. No doubt, Football is king and bball is a distant 2nd, with baseball an even more distant 3rd.
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  #25  
Old 05-20-17, 01:13 PM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by MickeyMantle View Post
Packed houses at the Southwest Ohio Classic at X and the districts at Miami U. The crowds there during a close sprint race or really any relay are as electric as it comes in high school. Yet, the kids in this area who have gone on to swim at Alabama, USC, Arizona, Stanford and others likely not too concerned with your nonsensical views on the importance of their sport.
They had 10k people at a Swim meet? Honestly, if your school won GCL in football and bball, but finished dead last in every other sport, I'm pretty sure everyone would look it as a great sports year. That's why this trophy doesn't have a lot of meaning, bc it doesn't accurately represent the fans view on the importance of each sport. I'm quite certain that's why Peterson made the point of pointing out how X won the Trophy bc of the "Country Club Sports."

Last edited by Descartes; 05-21-17 at 09:50 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-22-17, 07:38 AM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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They had 10k people at a Swim meet?
While it may not be 10K, there is definitely a comma in the attendance figure at each of those events I listed. But you did not say 10K. You said only parents in the stands and that is absolutely not the case.
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Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Even the kids know their sports aren't as important to the school, they have eyes, they can look into the crowd and see it's just parents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartes View Post
Honestly, if your school won GCL in football and bball, but finished dead last in every other sport, I'm pretty sure everyone would look it as a great sports year. That's why this trophy doesn't have a lot of meaning, bc it doesn't accurately represent the fans view on the importance of each sport. I'm quite certain that's why Peterson made the point of pointing out how X won the Trophy bc of the "Country Club Sports."
I think that depends on who it is. My guess is that the athletic department would be quite happy with those two titles and hope for better results net year in the programs they pay people to coach and spend money on for student-athlete experiences.

You have to remember, Pboy, that not everybody is a narrow-minded and obtuse as you are.
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  #27  
Old 05-22-17, 09:30 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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I see both sides. I somewhat agree with pboy about the country club sports. It's overinflates the value of the trophy, because let's be honest, most people care the most about football, basketball, and baseball. Perhaps baseball is now off the list and volleyball has taken it's place? Seems to be much more buzz there than with baseball.

Playing the other side, it's certainly a testament to the school that they can offer, and be successful, at a wide range of sports. They can market to all kinds of kids and have them all feel at home in their school. I don't know that Moeller and Elder can make that claim. Certainly helps their ability to attract more and more kids each year. It is 100% a recruitment and marketing advantage to be that multi-dimensional with their sports teams. Another lesson for the "football is king" schools.
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  #28  
Old 05-22-17, 09:48 AM
Descartes Descartes is online now
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
I see both sides. I somewhat agree with pboy about the country club sports. It's overinflates the value of the trophy, because let's be honest, most people care the most about football, basketball, and baseball. Perhaps baseball is now off the list and volleyball has taken it's place? Seems to be much more buzz there than with baseball.

Playing the other side, it's certainly a testament to the school that they can offer, and be successful, at a wide range of sports. They can market to all kinds of kids and have them all feel at home in their school. I don't know that Moeller and Elder can make that claim. Certainly helps their ability to attract more and more kids each year. It is 100% a recruitment and marketing advantage to be that multi-dimensional with their sports teams. Another lesson for the "football is king" schools.
Why don't we compare the budgets for every sport? Again, I'm not knocking the kids, but the All Sports Trophy is meaningless bc not all sports are of equal importance.
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  #29  
Old 05-22-17, 09:57 AM
MickeyMantle MickeyMantle is offline
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Then Pboy should create a "Sports That Matter" trophy.
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  #30  
Old 05-22-17, 10:13 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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I do agree with him that I would gladly take a last place finish in the All-Sports standings if it meant a football or basketball state title. Anyone who says otherwise is just playing devil's advocate.
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