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  #1  
Old 05-10-13, 05:00 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Arrow SL Footprint & Realignment

There has been a lot of talk about expansion in Northeast Ohio lately. I thought it would be interesting to take a look at (very roughly) how the SL looks today geographically.
This map is not exact... I do not know where school districts draw their exact borders. If I really messed up the borders, let me know. If the general placement is right, cut me some slack!

I do not have any inside knowledge on league movements... I have heard on here that both Green and Cloverleaf may be looking elsewhere. With that considered, the schools that make sense geographically for the league would be as follows:
(working my way around clockwise from the South)
Barberton-No, been there...
Medina-Too big
Brunswick-Too big
North Royalton-Probably too big
Brecksville-Decent fit
Bedford-Probably too far north, but they are actually potentially interesting with an enrollment of 517 (http://yappi.com/Boys/enrollment1.shtml I do not think this is updated, but its close enough)
Twinsburg-Perfect Fit
Hudson*-Too Big
Stow*-Too Big
Falls*-Too Big
*As big as those 3 are, I think they might actually be a decent fit for the SL. They are not great sports schools.. I think they'd be a solid competitive fit for the SL
Kent Roosevelt-Probably too far, but I think they'd be a decent fit. There in enrollment/competitiveness would be a good fit.

Am I missing anyone? I think Wooster could be interesting... But they are way out there.
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  #2  
Old 05-11-13, 09:53 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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I agree with the assessment, but I'm wondering why Brecksville is a decent fit, while Twinsburg is a perfect fit? Brecksville is more centrally located for most of the Suburban schools, and their athletics and facilities are easily on par with Twinsburg.
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  #3  
Old 05-11-13, 10:00 AM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
I agree with the assessment, but I'm wondering why Brecksville is a decent fit, while Twinsburg is a perfect fit? Brecksville is more centrally located for most of the Suburban schools, and their athletics and facilities are easily on par with Twinsburg.
Very fair point. I have heard that Twinsburg is interested in the SL and is a rival of Nordonia and both schools are interested in playing in the same league..
I agree with you that Brecksville would probably be an even better fit for the SL based on size and location but I don't know of any rivalry stakes for Brecksville that would make them interested in the SL or the SL interested in them...

I think Cloverleaf is a sleeping giant IF they can get their finances in order. Unfortunately, I do not see them getting their finances in order anytime soon.. That said, if Leaf and Green were to leave I would think the SL would offer Twinsburg and Brecksville. That would be a very solid league.
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  #4  
Old 05-11-13, 10:04 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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If Twinsburg is interetsed, that would put them up one on Brecksville...as far as I can tell. There have been openings in the league, but I don't recall Brecksville showing interest. Maybe that changes now that they have officially told the SWC schools that they would leave for the right circumstances. At any rate, I would shoot them an invite if were calling the shots in the Suburban.
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  #5  
Old 05-11-13, 10:23 AM
Colt 17 24 Colt 17 24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
Very fair point. I have heard that Twinsburg is interested in the SL and is a rival of Nordonia and both schools are interested in playing in the same league..
I agree with you that Brecksville would probably be an even better fit for the SL based on size and location but I don't know of any rivalry stakes for Brecksville that would make them interested in the SL or the SL interested in them...

I think Cloverleaf is a sleeping giant IF they can get their finances in order. Unfortunately, I do not see them getting their finances in order anytime soon.. That said, if Leaf and Green were to leave I would think the SL would offer Twinsburg and Brecksville. That would be a very solid league.
Depends how many farms are sold for development. I think the school issue failed by less than 200 votes Tuesday. But, it was a very small turnout. More seniors more no votes and you can't blame them. They also spit enrollment with Norwayne and Black River and Buckeye. I know that we have some kids that live in the district but, go to Wadsworth. BTW I think Highland was named one of the top 100 or 1000 schools to attend in the US. Congrats to them. Had to add that.
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  #6  
Old 05-11-13, 11:14 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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I think the Tallmadge fans would really start pushing to leave the league if Green leaves and another Medina County school is added. The travel for league games is very long, especially for the smaller and middle school sports.

Although the SL is a good competitive fit for Tallmadge, the PTC is a much better geographic fit.
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  #7  
Old 05-11-13, 11:28 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
I think the Tallmadge fans would really start pushing to leave the league if Green leaves and another Medina County school is added. The travel for league games is very long, especially for the smaller and middle school sports.

Although the SL is a good competitive fit for Tallmadge, the PTC is a much better geographic fit.
Should leagues extend to junior high and middle school? In some instances, yes...but when the high school league geography is a little spread out, wouldn't it make more sense to just have tight local leagues for junior high and middle school? Does it make sense for Stow, Hudson and Cuyahoga Falls to be trucking their junior high teams all over NE Ohio, or for Tallmadge to be sending their junior high kids over to Lodi? Why not a junior high/MS league of Cuyahoga Falls, Stow, Hudson, Tallmadge, Field, Ravenna, Streetsboro? I don't think the disparity of school sizes is a huge deal before high school. Medina, Brunswick, Wadsworth, Cloverleaf, Highland, Buckeye, Black River could easily form a junior high/MS league and save travel costs. The schools can remain in their current leagues for high school sports.
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  #8  
Old 05-11-13, 11:59 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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That would help things but I don't think either league is going to make that change. It's a shame because I know alot of Falls people that would like to be in a league with Tallmadge again.
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  #9  
Old 05-12-13, 08:05 AM
frecriss frecriss is offline
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Here are my two cents-there should be an all out effort to form a two-division Summit County League. Try to preserve rivalries and balance using these 12 schools.

Hudson
Falls
Stow
Twinsburg
Barberton
Norton
Tallmadge
Copley
Revere
Nordonia
Coventry
Springfield
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  #10  
Old 05-12-13, 09:12 AM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Yappi, I do not see the SL adding any more Medina County teams. There are not really any to add... Medina and Brunswick are too big and Black River and Buckeye are too small. The only other 3 Medina County schools are in the SL.. And I see Cloverleaf potentially leaving.

I believe Twinsburg and Brecksville are Cuyahoga County? Or are they Summit? Would Tallmadge fans have issue with them? I agree that if Green leaves the SL makes less sense for Tallmadge. Tallmadge is very good in a couple major sports, but the trend in the SL is towards smaller D1s.. Tallmadge has not competed well outside the major sports. At some point, I could see Tallmadge fans growing unhappy with that.

Frecriss, I understand you are pushing for a Summit County league, but your proposal completely destroys rivalries for Copley and Revere. Both schools stretch along the Medina County border with Wadsworth and Highland.

I personally guarantee there is no chance Revere, Highland, Copley and Wadsworth split. Consider them an alliance like Stow/Falls/Hudson.
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  #11  
Old 05-12-13, 09:20 AM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt 17 24 View Post
Depends how many farms are sold for development. I think the school issue failed by less than 200 votes Tuesday. But, it was a very small turnout. More seniors more no votes and you can't blame them. They also spit enrollment with Norwayne and Black River and Buckeye. I know that we have some kids that live in the district but, go to Wadsworth. BTW I think Highland was named one of the top 100 or 1000 schools to attend in the US. Congrats to them. Had to add that.
I understand why seniors vote no, bout I think it's shortsighted financial planning on their part. Yeah, you pay more taxes on your property... But NOTHING can help single handedly pull up your property values like having a property in a strong school district. People pay a premium for property where they know their kids are guaranteed a good public education.

I do not think it's as simple as selling farm for development.. That means more students and the district cannot support the students it has already. I don't think the people in developments are enough to push the district to a new levy..
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  #12  
Old 05-13-13, 07:07 AM
Colt 17 24 Colt 17 24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
I understand why seniors vote no, bout I think it's shortsighted financial planning on their part. Yeah, you pay more taxes on your property... But NOTHING can help single handedly pull up your property values like having a property in a strong school district. People pay a premium for property where they know their kids are guaranteed a good public education.

I do not think it's as simple as selling farm for development.. That means more students and the district cannot support the students it has already. I don't think the people in developments are enough to push the district to a new levy..
I no longer agree with that old wives tail of strong schools=strong property values. How do you explain property values dropping 30% over the last six years. It's really a strong job market=strong property values. Seniors would rather move out then take a $500-$600 dollar tax hit for schools. Not very many will vote for a tax increase. Their kids are grown and gone. If some how you could exempt seniors from any new tax you would get the school issues passed. But could the working crowd afford that bigger tax burden?

What ive said is just a fact that schools have to deal with. Another option is close schools and combine them.
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  #13  
Old 05-13-13, 07:54 AM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt 17 24 View Post
I no longer agree with that old wives tail of strong schools=strong property values. How do you explain property values dropping 30% over the last six years. It's really a strong job market=strong property values. Seniors would rather move out then take a $500-$600 dollar tax hit for schools. Not very many will vote for a tax increase. Their kids are grown and gone. If some how you could exempt seniors from any new tax you would get the school issues passed. But could the working crowd afford that bigger tax burden?

What ive said is just a fact that schools have to deal with. Another option is close schools and combine them.
Property values dropped everywhere the last 6 years... How do I explain it? The entire real estate market crashed due to a global financial crisis!!

You have to look at market values comparatively to the time frame to isolate schools as a factor in home values. Real estate values in Highland were not hurt as badly as in the Leaf during the recession, and I absolutely believe that was in part because the demand for good schools remained as the world went through a financial crisis.

I completely blame seniors for not understanding finance. Its not an old wives tail.. Its backed up by the numbers.
Related.. I know for a fact a large number of my classmates at Highland were living in the Highland district specifically because of good schools. Parents pay a premium to send their kids to good schools.
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  #14  
Old 05-13-13, 10:34 AM
Colt 17 24 Colt 17 24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
Property values dropped everywhere the last 6 years... How do I explain it? The entire real estate market crashed due to a global financial crisis!!

You have to look at market values comparatively to the time frame to isolate schools as a factor in home values. Real estate values in Highland were not hurt as badly as in the Leaf during the recession, and I absolutely believe that was in part because the demand for good schools remained as the world went through a financial crisis.

I completely blame seniors for not understanding finance. Its not an old wives tail.. Its backed up by the numbers.
Related.. I know for a fact a large number of my classmates at Highland were living in the Highland district specifically because of good schools. Parents pay a premium to send their kids to good schools.
You can't blame them since they have paid taxes their whole lives and can no longer afford new taxes. Not when they get a small increase in SSI and less than 1% interest on savings. The $$$ are no longer there. If you think I'm wrong you must be young. Do you honestly think that people can keep paying and paying? My take is Medina only needs 3 Magnet schools. Brunswick, Medina and Wadsworth all the rest should be devided up and go to those three and eventually that has to happen. There is a serious shortage of dollars and it will only get worse. Do you know what living on a fixed income is? There is no room for new taxes. Should I pay for schools or medicine or food? Not me I'm just saying. You just cant outlive your money. Seniors fear that the most.
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  #15  
Old 05-13-13, 10:38 AM
GRPride86 GRPride86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt 17 24 View Post
There is no room for new taxes. Should I pay for schools or medicine or food? Not me I'm just saying. You just cant outlive your money. Seniors fear that the most.
Lottery!!!!! Pay for Lottery!!!!
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  #16  
Old 05-14-13, 09:47 AM
Colt 17 24 Colt 17 24 is offline
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I do.....but I don't seem to win.....even a buck....lol
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  #17  
Old 05-14-13, 10:04 AM
GRPride86 GRPride86 is offline
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Not that I'm for any type of additional or new tax, but everytime I hear of the elderly having to choose between food and medicine and then I see them dropping $20 here on the lottery and over there on the lottery. I just shake my head.
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  #18  
Old 05-14-13, 01:06 PM
Colt 17 24 Colt 17 24 is offline
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That just my way of supporting the schools.
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  #19  
Old 05-14-13, 01:08 PM
Colt 17 24 Colt 17 24 is offline
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If I win I'll buy the leaf new stands. Did you hear that God?
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  #20  
Old 05-16-13, 12:43 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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FWIW, here are boys 9-11 enrollments that will be used for 13-14 14-15 divisional purposes...
HTTP://www.ohsaa.org/members/hsenroll13.htm

First # is new boys #, 2nd number is last boys number so you can see change:

Wadsworth 653 from 605
Green 617 from 534
Nordonia 546 from 541
Copley 471 from 443
Cloverleaf 444 from 418
Highland 435 from 417
Revere 360 from 363
Tallmadge 344 from 337

These numbers are good indicators, but they don't tell the full story.. That said, some massive growth at the leagues bigger schools. 7of 8 sl teams grow. Tallmadge and Revere are really starting to get on the extra small side. Size wise, Cloverleaf and Green are great fits. Both of their issues are outside the enrollment numbers... Green is a better geographical fit in the Fed and Cloverleaf is struggling to get the kids enrolled to actually play sports due to pay-to-play rules due to fiscal issues.

I still think Brecksville and Twinsburg make the most sense if the SL is looking for new teams.
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  #21  
Old 05-16-13, 12:49 PM
GRPride86 GRPride86 is offline
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Tallmadge has always been about 8 boys from going DIII, but still have been pretty good in football for the past 10 years.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-13, 12:55 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRPride86 View Post
Tallmadge has always been about 8 boys from going DIII, but still have been pretty good in football for the past 10 years.
I expect Tallmadge to remain pretty competitive in the SL in football. Other sports at Tallmadge have not been competitive lately (there are some exceptions, like baseball).. And i don't see that changing for the better. It will be interesting to see if some in Tallmadge start making a push to join an Eastern Akron based league to help secondary sports and to cut travel costs.
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  #23  
Old 05-16-13, 01:01 PM
GRPride86 GRPride86 is offline
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We need to get in a league that has the same size schools. There are some pretty big schools in this league right now.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-13, 04:33 PM
ohio9704 ohio9704 is offline
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Aurora's league is falling apart, maybe an option for the SL if they go a bit farther north for teams.
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  #25  
Old 05-24-13, 06:26 PM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Originally Posted by ohio9704 View Post
Aurora's league is falling apart, maybe an option for the SL if they go a bit farther north for teams.
IMO, it's likelier Nordonia leaves the Suburban for a league that forms from the ripple effect of what happened with the CVC.
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  #26  
Old 05-25-13, 10:56 AM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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FWIW, I have heard Nordonia is very happy with the SL.
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  #27  
Old 05-25-13, 11:30 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
FWIW, I have heard Nordonia is very happy with the SL.
I believe that, and won't be at all surprised if they stay in the SL. I think they are going to have another strong option soon, though, which may tempt them.
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  #28  
Old 05-25-13, 06:09 PM
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Nordonia is going no where , i know the athletic director.They are so happy being back in the suburban league.
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  #29  
Old 05-28-13, 12:39 PM
SLhornet SLhornet is offline
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Nordonia is going no where , i know the athletic director.They are so happy being back in the suburban league.
Because the ADs from Medina.


I bet if Green were to leave there would be a big push for Medina.
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  #30  
Old 05-28-13, 01:20 PM
Colt 17 24 Colt 17 24 is offline
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Where have you been?.....Green is leaving in two years.
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