Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Boys Track & Field/Cross Country

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 04-26-19, 08:30 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 05-03-10
Location: Somewhere in the ether
Posts: 2,728
JAVMAN83 is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finishtiming View Post
We probably have the picture but since every runner does not wear a number then it is nearly impossible to do splits for those.
Thanks for the prompt response. You guys do a wonderful job as it is. Thought I'd ask the question anyway.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #32  
Old 04-26-19, 10:34 AM
dkng37nat dkng37nat is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 04-29-11
Posts: 24
dkng37nat is on a distinguished road
Hilliard Davidson Girls were 3:42 // 61 // 2:13 // 4:57. Solo effort after ~500m
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-26-19, 11:18 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 02-15-10
Posts: 3,039
ccrunner609 is on a distinguished road
Mason girls 4x8 at Wayne last night was impressive. A solo 9:11
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-26-19, 12:43 PM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
Mason girls 4x8 at Wayne last night was impressive. A solo 9:11
I could see Mason girls going under 9:00 again at state this year. These girls won the Eastern Relays last week. (9:24.75 1) Ullom, Maddie 11 2) Kruse, Emma 11 3) Min, Faith 11 4) Hallum, Lily 12). Three of these girls ran on Mason's 2017 state meet team that became the first girls team under 9:00 in Ohio. (8:56.62 1) Lily Hallum 10, 2) Maddie Ullom 09, 3) Faith Min 09, 4) Ellie Brush 12)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-26-19, 12:59 PM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Boys' Triple Jump:

Olentangy Orange's Jaeschel Acheampong extends out to a nice 47' 7 1/2" jump for #5 All-Time Ohio, All-Conditions (no wind info for any of the TJ's at Wayne).

In the Cincinnati department, St. Xavier's Kellen Newman (44' 5") moves ahead of 1924's Olympic Long Jump Champion, William DeHart Hubbard (Walnut Hills) for #5 all-time in the Cincinnati area. FYI - Hubbard's 44' 4" HS triple jump came 98 YEARS AGO off of CINDER at Carson Field (UC) in 1921. Even more impressive than that is the #7 all-time Cincinnati listing of 44' 1 1/2" set by another Walnut Hills' alum, Ernest Diehl, in 1897!
How deep is your Cincinnati triple jump list? Can you post it here.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-26-19, 01:38 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is online now
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 08-03-10
Posts: 634
Newton's Third is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Mason girls became the first girls team under 9:00 in Ohio.
Geneva went under 9 in 2015 or 2016.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-26-19, 01:50 PM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
Geneva girls came close but didn't go under 9:00.

2014 - 9:04.77
2015 - 9:01.41 https://www.baumspage.com/ohsaa/tf/2015/Results1.htm
2016 - not at state meet.

When Centerville's girls beat Geneva in 2015, Centerville's winning time was not only the stadium record but also, the state meet record, and the all time Ohio record.

OHSAA Div. 1: % 9:00.82 6/5/2015 Centerville, K Kohls, M Rintoul, A Jennings, L Studebaker
State Meet 1: # 9:00.82 6/5/2015 Centerville, K Kohls, M Rintoul, A Jennings, L Studebaker
Owens Stad.: @ 9:00.82 6/5/2015 Centerville, K Kohls, M Rintoul, A Jennings, L Studebaker
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-26-19, 02:01 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is online now
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 08-03-10
Posts: 634
Newton's Third is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Geneva girls came close but didn't go under 9:00.
It was at nationals after their anchor leg's problem at state.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-26-19, 02:23 PM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
The 2017 state meet results in the girls 4 x 800 is generally regarded as the greatest ever. Top two teams both broke 9:00 as Mason ran 8:56.62 and Gahanna Lincoln ran 8:56.73 while 6th place ran 9:06.66. lane4 called this race insane.https://www.baumspage.com/ohsaa/tf/2017/Results1.htm

Geneva's time was never recognized by the OHSAA as a state record since it occurred some two weeks after the high school season had ended and Geneva ran under the name of Geneva Track Club not Geneva high school. in 2016, Centerville's time from 2015 was still recognized as the DI state record. http://www.baumspage.com/ohsaa/tf/2016/Results1.htm
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-26-19, 02:33 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is online now
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 08-03-10
Posts: 634
Newton's Third is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
The 2017 state meet results in the girls 4 x 800 is generally regarded as the greatest ever. Top two teams both broke 9:00 as Mason ran 8:56.62 and Gahanna Lincoln ran 8:56.73 while 6th place ran 9:06.66. lane4 called this race insane.https://www.baumspage.com/ohsaa/tf/2017/Results1.htm

Geneva's time was never recognized by the OHSAA as a state record since it occurred after the high school season had ended and Geneva ran under the name of Geneva Track Club not Geneva high school. in 2016, Centerville's time from 2015 was still recognized as the DI state record. http://www.baumspage.com/ohsaa/tf/2016/Results1.htm
So they weren't the first team under 9 in Ohio? It didn't happen?
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 04-26-19, 02:37 PM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
According to the OHSAA rules, "no". According to track aficionados like you and I, "yes" , they were the first Ohio girls high school team under 9:00. To be honest here, I was unaware that Geneva's girls had run under 9:00 in 2015. Thanks for enlightening us all on that fact. I did cross check the state results and the national results and the names are the same. Congratulations to these four Ohio high school girls for being the first girls foursome under 9:00 in the 4 x 800 relay and for also being an Ohio team to win a national championship

New Balance Nationals Outdoor - 6/19/2015 to 6/21/2015 - North Carolina A+T University Greensboro NC
1 Geneva Tc-Oh 8:59.83
1) 1455 Emily Deering 15 2) 1453 Summer Arndt 16
3) 1457 Dareion Marrison 17 4) 1454 Brittany Aveni 16

Last edited by Lancermania; 04-26-19 at 02:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-26-19, 02:53 PM
lane4 lane4 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Posts: 1,273
lane4 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton's Third View Post
Geneva went under 9 in 2015 or 2016.
Correct. Geneva was the first Ohio girls team under 9 with their 8:59.83 at the 2015 New Balance Outdoor meet.

Discussed here - http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279521
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-26-19, 03:26 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is online now
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 08-03-10
Posts: 634
Newton's Third is on a distinguished road
My contribution from a previous thread concerning the 4 X mile was a reaction to someone who said Granville or Centerville (I can't remember which) did not break Turpin's record even though they ran farther and faster. Turpin ran 4 X 1600. Geneva was in the 4 X 800 and Granville and Centerville both ran very fast in the 4 X mile and distance medley but I don't remember who ran which one. This is similar to the discussion at this time a year ago about Dustin Horter was the fastest Ohioan at 1600 when 3 different people had to have gone through 1600 faster since their mile was faster than Horter's 1600.

Using my memory which can be really poor at times, I remember the Beaumont team running the distance medley much faster than the 11:45 time being touted as the record. I cannot find it so I could be wrong or it could have been at a regular season meet, not nationals. Maybe someone could ask Jim Emery.

Sorry to be so scattered in my thoughts.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-26-19, 03:39 PM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
Dustin Horter's time is recognized as the DI record in the 1600 according to the OHSAA. https://www.ohsaa.org/sports/staterecords/tf

John Zishka of Lancaster ran a 4:03.85 mile on 6/14/1980 in Sacramento, CA. By multiplying this time by .9942, his mile time was converted to a 1600m time of 4:02.4

Last edited by Lancermania; 04-26-19 at 03:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-26-19, 03:58 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is online now
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 08-03-10
Posts: 634
Newton's Third is on a distinguished road
Zishka and Borchers miles probably brought them through 1600 faster than Horter but Kidder's WAS faster since he was 4:02 for the mile. To say Horter has the record is silly in my eyes. Kidder should listed along with something to indicate it was a mile not 1600. To me it seems we try to find ways to manufacture records on technicalities.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-26-19, 07:44 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 05-03-10
Location: Somewhere in the ether
Posts: 2,728
JAVMAN83 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton's Third View Post
Zishka and Borchers miles probably brought them through 1600 faster than Horter but Kidder's WAS faster since he was 4:02 for the mile. To say Horter has the record is silly in my eyes. Kidder should listed along with something to indicate it was a mile not 1600. To me it seems we try to find ways to manufacture records on technicalities.
Kidder was 4:03.12 for the mile, not 4:02. His 4:03.12 would be worth 4:01.71 IF converted.

While conversions are a tool for comparison, they are NEVER absolute as the conversion factor REQUIRES the assumption that then entire race was run at the same pace, including the start. That obviously NEVER happens. Also, typically, athletes are frequently slowing down their pace in the last few tens of meters in an all-out mile/1600m race. As I said, there is NO exact conversion. Hence, there are legitimate reasons to have entirely separate records for the 1600m and mile, even if the 1600m record is comparatively slower than the mile best. That's why I'm always in favor of a separate camera at the shorter distance in the event that a race might see a record. Killing two bird with one stone so-to-speak.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-26-19, 08:37 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 05-03-10
Location: Somewhere in the ether
Posts: 2,728
JAVMAN83 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
How deep is your Cincinnati triple jump list? Can you post it here.
Here's my current list of 43-foot plus TJ's from the Cincy area. I have a deeper list, but I have a lot of work to do on that as yet, as well as some missing information from below.

Rank Mark Wind Name School Grad Year Division Class Place Meet Site Date
Imperial Metric First Last

1 47' 2" 14.37m+ +0.0 Ferronte BARTLETT unatt. - Cincinnati North College Hill 2014 n/a 12 1 AAU JO Nat'ls Drake U., Des Moines, IA 26 Jul 2014
2 45' 10" 13.97m nwi Reggie MILLS Cincinnati Princeton 1994 I 12 1 Roosevelt Inv. Welcome Stadium, Dayton 8 May 1994
3 45' 6 " 13.87m nwi Jeff HILL Cincinnati Mt. Healthy 1990 I 12 1 Anderson Inv. Anderson HS 26 Apr 1990
45' 5 " 13.86m nwi Hill Cincinnati Mt. Healthy AAA 11 1 Rider Relays Miami U., Oxford 6 May 1989
45' 4 " 13.82m nwi Hill Cincinnati Mt. Healthy AAA 11 1 Anderson Inv. Anderson HS Apr 1989
44' 7" 13.59m nwi Bartlett unatt. - Cincinnati North College Hill n/a 12 1 AAU Region IV 27 Jun 2014
4 44' 6" 13.56m nwi Eric THURMOND Cincinnati Princeton 1989 AAA 12 2 Mansfield Relays Mansfield 14 Apr 1989
44' 5" 13.53m nwi Mills Cincinnati Princeton AAA 1 Princeton Come/Run Princeton HS 1994
5 44' 5" 13.53m nwi Kellen NEWMAN Cincinnati St. Xavier 2020 I 10 2 Wayne Invite Huber Heights 25 Apr 2019
6 44' 4" 13.51m nwi W. DeHart HUBBARD Cincinnati Walnut Hills 1921 n/a 12 1 Meet @ UC Carson Field 28 May 1921
7 44' 1 " 13.45m nwi Ernest DIEHL Cincinnati Walnut Hills 1897 n/a 12 1 Cincinnati Interscholastic Chester Park 29 May 1897
8 43' 10 " 13.38m +0.0 Malik BEVERLY Cincinnati Northwest 2016 n/a 11 16 AAU JO Nat'ls - 17-18 Norfolk, VA 8 Aug 2015
9 43' 5 " 13.24m nwi Brian BRUNER Cincinnati Mt. Healthy 1981 AAA 11 1 Rider Relays Oxford 1980
43' 5 " 13.24m nwi Newman Cincinnati St. Xavier 2020 I 10 2 Wayne Invite Huber Heights 26 Apr 2018
10 43' 5" 13.23m nwi Jason KIMBLE Cincinnati Elder 1991 I 12 Mansfield Relays Mansfield 19 Apr 1991
11 43' 3 " 13.20m +0.0 Reece PONTIUS Mason 2015 I 12 4 Wayne Invite Huber Heights 30 Apr 2015
12 43' 3" 13.18m nwi N DUNCAN Loveland 2006
13 43' 3" 13.18m nwi Chris ZHANG Mason 2020 I 11 3 Wayne Invite Huber Heights 25 Apr 2019
14 43' 2 " 13.17m nwi S SMITH Woodward n/a 1 Cincinnati Interscholastic Chester Park 28 May 1896
15 43' 1 " 13.15m nwi WALKER Moeller 2 Anderson Inv. Anderson HS 26 Apr 1990
16 43' 0 " 13.12m+ nwi Allen JONES Cincinnati Mt. Healthy 1979 AAA 11 1 Ohio Classic 1978
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-26-19, 08:52 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is online now
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 08-03-10
Posts: 634
Newton's Third is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Kidder was 4:03.12 for the mile, not 4:02. His 4:03.12 would be worth 4:01.71 IF converted.

While conversions are a tool for comparison, they are NEVER absolute as the conversion factor REQUIRES the assumption that then entire race was run at the same pace, including the start. That obviously NEVER happens. Also, typically, athletes are frequently slowing down their pace in the last few tens of meters in an all-out mile/1600m race. As I said, there is NO exact conversion.
No need to convert when the guy who ran farther also ran faster. Just because there was not a camera at 1600, Kidder HAD to be there faster. I have no problem with separate records but in cases like this Kidder should be listed with a disclaimer that there was not a camera at 1600. I don't believe acting like Kidder was not faster over 1600 meters is considerate to him or Horter. Sorry, I thought Kidder was under 4:03 for a mile but that was only for 1600. I also agree a camera at 1600 in mile races is the way to go. I remember Finish Timing having two cameras at the Mason mile for that reason.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-26-19, 09:10 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 05-03-10
Location: Somewhere in the ether
Posts: 2,728
JAVMAN83 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton's Third View Post
No need to convert when the guy who ran farther also ran faster. Just because there was not a camera at 1600, Kidder HAD to be there faster. I have no problem with separate records but in cases like this Kidder should be listed with a disclaimer that there was not a camera at 1600. I don't believe acting like Kidder was not faster over 1600 meters is considerate to him or Horter. Sorry, I thought Kidder was under 4:03 for a mile but that was only for 1600. I also agree a camera at 1600 in mile races is the way to go. I remember Finish Timing having two cameras at the Mason mile for that reason.
No one is disputing that the guy who ran farther ran faster. That is not in dispute. Unfortunately, without a camera recording the time at the 1600m, an accurate time cannot be ascertained for record purposes. That is what purists would argue. It's an unfortunate place to be, but such it is.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-27-19, 12:39 AM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
Some results from Wayne that jump out at me.

Lakota East girls 4 x 100 relay 47.54 - meet record and state leading

Maddie Ullom - Mason - 800m - 2:12.80 - state leading

Zarik Brown - Wayne - 200m - 21.35 (-0.1w) - state leading

Emma Bucher - Centerville - 3200m - 10:27.60 - track record, state leading
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 04-27-19, 08:55 AM
skins99's Avatar
skins99 skins99 is offline
Ron Jeremey Stunt Double
 
Join Date: 10-12-01
Location: "Work is the scourge of t
Posts: 27,718
skins99 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to skins99
Kid from Loveland is knocking on the door of the Pole Vault top 25.

Cooper Smeller
12 - Loveland
14-09.00 ft
4.49m
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 04-27-19, 09:18 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 05-03-10
Location: Somewhere in the ether
Posts: 2,728
JAVMAN83 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by skins99 View Post
Kid from Loveland is knocking on the door of the Pole Vault top 25.

Cooper Smeller
12 - Loveland
14-09.00 ft
4.49m
Proper conversion is 4.50m by IAAF tables. The software conversions in many of the timing software I've encountered don't properly convert marks to match the tables.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 04-27-19, 09:55 AM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Proper conversion is 4.50m by IAAF tables. The software conversions in many of the timing software I've encountered don't properly convert marks to match the tables.
A foot is exactly 0.3048 meters
Thus 14 feet nine inches is 14.75 feet X 0.3048 = 4.4958

If you go to the USATrack&Field (USATF) conversion table, you don't get the same going from imperial to metric that you do from metric to imperial. http://www.usatf.org/statistics/calc...rkConversions/

Metric to Imperial, Event: Pole Vault, Metric Mark: 4.49, Conversion: 4.49 m = 14' 8"

Imperial to Metric, Event: Pole Vault, Imperial Mark: 14' 9", Conversion: 14' 9" = 4.49 m

Last edited by Lancermania; 04-27-19 at 10:15 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 04-27-19, 12:05 PM
SOTT SOTT is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 01-08-06
Posts: 3,071
SOTT is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton's Third View Post
My contribution from a previous thread concerning the 4 X mile...
Can you link that thread? I was trying to find it the other day (if its the one Im thinking) and wasnt having much luck.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 04-27-19, 12:23 PM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
Here is the list of those who have run faster mile times than Horter.

4:03.12, BRANNON KIDDER, Lancaster, Adidas Grand Prix, 4th, Jun 8, 2012 - Jun 9, 2012
4:03.33, SAMUEL BORCHERS, Yellow Springs, Nike Outdoor Nationals, 1st, Jun 14, 2007 - Jun 16, 2007
4:03.85, JOHN ZISHKA, Lancaster, Golden West Invitational, 1st, Jun 14, 1980
4:04.68, DUSTIN HORTER, Lakota East, Brooks PR Invitational, 1st, Jun 8, 2018

Last edited by Lancermania; 04-27-19 at 12:40 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 04-27-19, 12:45 PM
galesxc galesxc is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 08-18-10
Posts: 87
galesxc is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Kidder was 4:03.12 for the mile, not 4:02. His 4:03.12 would be worth 4:01.71 IF converted.

While conversions are a tool for comparison, they are NEVER absolute as the conversion factor REQUIRES the assumption that then entire race was run at the same pace, including the start. That obviously NEVER happens. Also, typically, athletes are frequently slowing down their pace in the last few tens of meters in an all-out mile/1600m race. As I said, there is NO exact conversion. Hence, there are legitimate reasons to have entirely separate records for the 1600m and mile, even if the 1600m record is comparatively slower than the mile best. That's why I'm always in favor of a separate camera at the shorter distance in the event that a race might see a record. Killing two bird with one stone so-to-speak.
Some additional thoughts/info (although I agree with JAVMAN here)

1) I believe OHSAA should maintain official record for both metric and US customary distances. It is incredibly disrespectful to disregard all records/great performances that occurred prior to the metric era.

2) I filed the paperwork and went to bat for Brannon after he ran the 4:03.12. The race occurred within the OHSAA season which ended a week after the State Meet. The race included only HS athletes. There was a lynx "clock" at 1500M and the mile... Brannon's pace over the last 109.35m was almost identical to his pace for the final lap. Brannon's time for 1609.35 was clearly faster than Bob Kennedy's time for 1600M (no disrespect intended). Obviously, OHSAA did not approve the record.

To my mind, the correct answer is to honor all the record-setting Ohio athletes... it just wouldn't be that difficult or time-consuming. and it would be the right thing to do.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 04-27-19, 02:31 PM
5x26 5x26 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 05-22-17
Posts: 112
5x26 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Some results from Wayne that jump out at me.


Maddie Ullom - Mason - 800m - 2:12.80 - state leading

Emma Bucher - Centerville - 3200m - 10:27.60 - track record, state leading

Ullom and Bush battled it out in the 800, both looked strong. Very impressive runs from both.

Bucher's 3200 was one of the more impressive runs I've seen. She broke the pack and damn near dead sprinted the final 4. I've been saying it for a while she will be one of the best. She just continues to improve.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 04-27-19, 06:32 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 05-03-10
Location: Somewhere in the ether
Posts: 2,728
JAVMAN83 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
A foot is exactly 0.3048 meters
Thus 14 feet nine inches is 14.75 feet X 0.3048 = 4.4958

If you go to the USATrack&Field (USATF) conversion table, you don't get the same going from imperial to metric that you do from metric to imperial. http://www.usatf.org/statistics/calc...rkConversions/

Metric to Imperial, Event: Pole Vault, Metric Mark: 4.49, Conversion: 4.49 m = 14' 8"

Imperial to Metric, Event: Pole Vault, Imperial Mark: 14' 9", Conversion: 14' 9" = 4.49 m
I'm aware of USATF's calculator. If you read the link you sent, it says "For unofficial purposes only". I don't use their little calculator. I use the BIG GOLD BOOK list of conversion. Page 8 (at least in my 2008 copy) says that conversions "cannot be used to obtain accurate conversions in the opposite direction" (Imperial to Metric) "although they may be consulted to determine approximate metric equivalents of imperially measured marks". I can tell you that having been a former multi-event athlete, that if a bar were measured as a legitimate 14' 9", the athlete would get credit for a 4.50m vault (760 pts) vs. 4.49m (757 pts) (men's tables). If I shorted an athlete 3 pts by that little 0.01m drop, I'd have the athlete, his coach, and all his supporters jumping down my proverbial backside for having done so.

As an engineer, I can tell you that measurement systems that deal in 0.01m or 1/4" measurements, such as we have with track and field, are highly open to interpretation such as "what was the probable height" cleared when dealing with an conversion. This in fact is what has been allotted for in the BIG GOLD BOOK's conversion tables. In the Introduction to the Tables section, it clearly states that "the statisticians' challenge, as explained by Scott Davis-who originally developed the algorithms to conform T&FN's tables to the IAAF's-was to develop a table of "most probable" marks, each a statistically defensible "estimate of what the performance would have been had it been measured in the imperial system." It goes on further to say that "the aim was to ensure the value of marks, by taking care, as any track & field official must in making the measurement in the first place, not to credit performers with better performances than they have actually achieved."

The long-and-short of it is this: Yes, 14' 9" = 4.4958m. That is not in dispute. However, because the measurement was made in the imperial system, there IS no accurate conversion: hence, an "equivalent" height that makes statistical sense as to what the athlete cleared is 4.50m, not 4.49m. 4.50m = 14' 9.17" / 4.49m = 14' 8.77" (2 significant figures). The athlete's PROBABLE converted clearance is 4.50m, not 4.49m, as the 14' 9" is closer to the 4.50m mark.

As the BIG GOLD BOOK mentions, and to which I as an engineer and a long-time field event athlete/coach/official (now retired from all) would concur, conversions are NOT exact, unfortunately. Going from imperial to metric is a judgement call based on probables, not exactness. In fact, if you compare the high jump/pole vault tables, you'll see that they differ from the long jump tables in a number of equivalent metric converted to imperial marks because of "probables".

Now, as to my own personal conversions that I do for my very lengthy all-time lists, when converting from imperial to metric, I ALWAYS use the BIG GOLD BOOK. For those imperial marks like 14' 9", I will list the mark as "4.49m+" with the "+" sign indicating that the metric mark was converted from the imperial, and hence, not an actual 4.50m measurement converted to 14' 9". While it adds work to my end of things, it is historically more accurate than just listing the 14' 9" as 4.50m, where someone down the road may misinterpret what actually occurred during the meet.

Well, that's my 2 cents on the whole thing. My fingers are tired now
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 04-27-19, 06:44 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 05-03-10
Location: Somewhere in the ether
Posts: 2,728
JAVMAN83 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by galesxc View Post
Some additional thoughts/info (although I agree with JAVMAN here)

1) I believe OHSAA should maintain official record for both metric and US customary distances. It is incredibly disrespectful to disregard all records/great performances that occurred prior to the metric era.

2) I filed the paperwork and went to bat for Brannon after he ran the 4:03.12. The race occurred within the OHSAA season which ended a week after the State Meet. The race included only HS athletes. There was a lynx "clock" at 1500M and the mile... Brannon's pace over the last 109.35m was almost identical to his pace for the final lap. Brannon's time for 1609.35 was clearly faster than Bob Kennedy's time for 1600M (no disrespect intended). Obviously, OHSAA did not approve the record.

To my mind, the correct answer is to honor all the record-setting Ohio athletes... it just wouldn't be that difficult or time-consuming. and it would be the right thing to do.
Agreed. Official Records and statistical comparison lists are entirely two different animals. Neither is hard to keep straight. The following 3 statements are true.

#1 - Clearly, Brannon is the fastest of all 1600m/Milers in Ohio history.
#2 - Clearly, Dustin Horter has the fastest MEASURED 1600m in Ohio history.
#3 - Clearly, Bob Kennedy has the fastest 1600m in a 1600m ONLY race in Ohio history.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 04-28-19, 01:56 AM
Lancermania's Avatar
Lancermania Lancermania is offline
Lancers lead the way!
 
Join Date: 08-23-04
Posts: 9,209
Lancermania is on a distinguished road
What Horter and Kennedy have over Kidder, Borchers, and Zishka is that they recorded their times during the regular season meets in Ohio which end with the state championships.

Kidder, Borchers, and Zishka had the same opportunities as Horter and Kennedy to beat their times during what the OHSAA considers the track/field season to be and they couldn't do it. They had to run in post season out of state meets to achieve their marks against arguably better competition.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Greater Cleveland Picks Contest, Week Ten; Week Nine results Myron Football 35 10-27-17 04:42 PM
Region 11 Extreme Analysis teach1coach2 Football 36 10-27-17 07:43 AM
2017 Other Ohio Schools Schedules EagleFan Archives 41 10-25-17 10:49 AM
SWO King of the Spread Pick'em: WEEK 9 RESULTS Kyle_E_Woyote Football 1 10-23-17 01:32 PM
2017 OHSAA Last Man Standing Contest (Week 3) Sykotyk Football 30 09-07-17 06:40 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz