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  #61  
Old 04-28-19, 06:56 AM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is online now
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Originally Posted by SOTT View Post
Can you link that thread? I was trying to find it the other day (if itís the one Iím thinking) and wasnít having much luck.
I found it but there really is not much there. The link is below. I knew Geneva broke 9 and Centerville and Granville ran well in the distance medley and 4 X mile, but I was could not remember which school ran which race.

http://yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279521

Looking for this I wondered what Geneva would have ran if their state meet anchor didn't have heat problems. Centerville and Granville both ran around 9:01 and Geneva had a very large lead until their anchor began staggering with 60-70 meters to go. She began slowing at 150 from the finish. I know that is all part of racing, but was wondering if Aveni ran her normal 2:07 what Geneva's state meet time would have been. 8:55?

I really need to stop. I am digging up stuff from nearly 4 years ago.
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  #62  
Old 04-28-19, 07:38 AM
tmikusa tmikusa is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
That was a Wayne Inv. meet record. https://oh.milesplit.com/videos/368730
as to the Wayne meet last Thursday & Friday, I noticed Wayne's distance runner, Houk, did not run. does anyone know if he is ok? they will need him to make a run at the state championship this year.
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  #63  
Old 04-28-19, 07:55 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by tmikusa View Post
as to the Wayne meet last Thursday & Friday, I noticed Wayne's distance runner, Houk, did not run. does anyone know if he is ok? they will need him to make a run at the state championship this year.
He led their 4x8 off friday thursday night in 1:57-8. He also ran the elite mile Friday
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  #64  
Old 04-28-19, 08:30 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
What Horter and Kennedy have over Kidder, Borchers, and Zishka is that they recorded their times during the regular season meets in Ohio which end with the state championships.

Kidder, Borchers, and Zishka had the same opportunities as Horter and Kennedy to beat their times during what the OHSAA considers the track/field season to be and they couldn't do it. They had to run in post season out of state meets to achieve their marks against arguably better competition.
This is important to note. And talking about this isn't slighting anyone. It is also important to compare competition that athletes faced and conditions under which they ran. For example look at how many of the great 3200 or two mile times came in evening meets under cool conditions. This makes Fry's 1985 state meet effort, after winning the 1600, all the more impressive to my mind. Or JJ White's national meet two mile win in hot humid conditions. Or Hiluf's hot humid conditions 3200 races at the state meet. Just to name a few.

I ran against Kennedy a few times (let's be honest, I ran in the same race as a Kennedy a few times) and I coached against both Kidder and Horter quite a few times. In my view Horter and Jeff See are the two best all around distance runners I have coached against. Kidder is the best 1600/800 runner I have coached against. Horter definitely faced the stiffest competition. There has not been a class like 2018 since at least 1993, and maybe not ever. For what it's worth, if they all raced in their primes I would probably pick Kidder for the win, because to my mind he showed the best ability to win no matter the race strategy. He could run the front and press, wait until part way through and move, or sit and kick and win any way he choose. But again, part of that is that may be because Horter didn't have as much luxury to do that given the competition.
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  #65  
Old 04-28-19, 10:12 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
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Lest we of a certain age forget, track surfaces of today are far superior to those of 30+ years ago. Proper training methodologies are also far more known these days thanks to the internet. Also, post-season head-to-head competitions of the best are far more available today than were "back in the day". Comparing times from one era to another is a fun exercise, but really futile if trying to say one set of circumstances is equal to another. They are not.

I see a big name not mentioned in this thread that should go mentioned: Reggie McAfee's 1969 State Class AA double win, both in all-time State record time, of the Mile & 880yd races with 4:08.5 & 1:52.5. Previous state records were 4:13.3 and 1:53.8. One heck of a double.
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  #66  
Old 04-28-19, 10:18 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Lest we of a certain age forget, track surfaces of today are far superior to those of 30+ years ago. Proper training methodologies are also far more known these days thanks to the internet. Also, post-season head-to-head competitions of the best are far more available today than were "back in the day". Comparing times from one era to another is a fun exercise, but really futile if trying to say one set of circumstances is equal to another. They are not.

I see a big name not mentioned in this thread that should go mentioned: Reggie McAfee's 1969 State Class AA double win, both in all-time State record time, of the Mile & 880yd races with 4:08.5 & 1:52.5. Previous state records were 4:13.3 and 1:53.8. One heck of a double.
And we will say this 30 years from now. The next big one is shoe technology. I have a pair of those Nike 4%. They are legit faster than a regular shoe. The OHSAA has banned them (not by name but by wording in bylaws about wearing anything that claims to make performances better)
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  #67  
Old 04-28-19, 10:28 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
And we will say this 30 years from now. The next big one is shoe technology. I have a pair of those Nike 4%. They are legit faster than a regular shoe. The OHSAA has banned them (not by name but by wording in bylaws about wearing anything that claims to make performances better)
1st I've heard about them, but I'll check em out. Shoes technology along with improved methodologies for dealing with lactic acid will be factors going forward.
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  #68  
Old 04-28-19, 11:54 AM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Originally Posted by mathking View Post
This is important to note. And talking about this isn't slighting anyone. It is also important to compare competition that athletes faced and conditions under which they ran. For example look at how many of the great 3200 or two mile times came in evening meets under cool conditions. This makes Fry's 1985 state meet effort, after winning the 1600, all the more impressive to my mind. Or JJ White's national meet two mile win in hot humid conditions. Or Hiluf's hot humid conditions 3200 races at the state meet. Just to name a few.

I ran against Kennedy a few times (let's be honest, I ran in the same race as a Kennedy a few times) and I coached against both Kidder and Horter quite a few times. In my view Horter and Jeff See are the two best all around distance runners I have coached against. Kidder is the best 1600/800 runner I have coached against. Horter definitely faced the stiffest competition. There has not been a class like 2018 since at least 1993, and maybe not ever. For what it's worth, if they all raced in their primes I would probably pick Kidder for the win, because to my mind he showed the best ability to win no matter the race strategy. He could run the front and press, wait until part way through and move, or sit and kick and win any way he choose. But again, part of that is that may be because Horter didn't have as much luxury to do that given the competition.
The way Kidder ran down almost the entire field the last 200m in that 800 is something burned into my memory at the state meet.
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  #69  
Old 04-28-19, 12:19 PM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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Originally Posted by Running Man 101 View Post
The way Kidder ran down almost the entire field the last 200m in that 800 is something burned into my memory at the state meet.
Kidder completed that double state win in 2012. What I have burned into my memory is what happened in 2011. Kidder won the 1600m in 4:09.32 and had the fastest regional qualifying time in the 800 by far 1:51.09. His inability to even score in the 800m that year (1:59.69) helped La Salle to edge out Centerville in the team scoring for the team championship as La Salle's 800 runner was able to come in second in a school record time of 1:52.43.
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  #70  
Old 04-28-19, 01:40 PM
galesxc galesxc is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Kidder completed that double state win in 2012. What I have burned into my memory is what happened in 2011. Kidder won the 1600m in 4:09.32 and had the fastest regional qualifying time in the 800 by far 1:51.09. His inability to even score in the 800m that year (1:59.69) helped La Salle to edge out Centerville in the team scoring for the team championship as La Salle's 800 runner was able to come in second in a school record time of 1:52.43.
The 2011 1600M was a very close, very tough race on a hot and muggy day. Brannon and Josh Sabo raced hard to go 1-2... then ended 15th and 16th in the 800M.

Another year of development, a cooler day and a 1600M field that let Brannon dictate the pace... all helped Brannon complete the 16-8 double in 2012. I still watch the video every once in a while. Having watched him split sub1:50 a few times, I still regret never getting Brannon an opportunity to race at his best for the LHS 800M record.
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  #71  
Old 04-28-19, 02:34 PM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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I was on the receiving end of what you talk about. I ran the 440 my sophomore and junior years, then my coach moved me up to the 880 my senior year. Years later he told me he always regretted not running me in open 440s my senior year.
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  #72  
Old 04-28-19, 04:46 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Originally Posted by galesxc View Post
The 2011 1600M was a very close, very tough race on a hot and muggy day. Brannon and Josh Sabo raced hard to go 1-2... then ended 15th and 16th in the 800M.

Another year of development, a cooler day and a 1600M field that let Brannon dictate the pace... all helped Brannon complete the 16-8 double in 2012. I still watch the video every once in a while. Having watched him split sub1:50 a few times, I still regret never getting Brannon an opportunity to race at his best for the LHS 800M record.
I still watch both the 1600 and the 800 races from 2012 myself from time to time. In 2012 I was pretty confident that Brannon would try to control the pace, keep it slow and out kick everyone. We told Grant to wait, keep himself from getting boxed in (what happened to him in 2011) and race for second.

In 2017 and 2018 that would not have worked for Horter. First of all because there were a lot of fast guys in the race who could run great last laps so there was less certainty he could win but also because if he had tried someone else would have taken the lead.

And I think McAfee's double probably does rank up there with Fry's. I am still a little biased toward Fry because his 3200 time was so amazing, but McAfee had less rest.
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  #73  
Old 04-28-19, 07:02 PM
Running Man 101 Running Man 101 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
I was on the receiving end of what you talk about. I ran the 440 my sophomore and junior years, then my coach moved me up to the 880 my senior year. Years later he told me he always regretted not running me in open 440s my senior year.
Coaches have to learn things as well and the only way is to actually go through the experience. Often it is a close call and a balance between what is best for the athlete and what is best for the team, kids don't come with individualized instructions.

When I look back on my time as a HS athlete, I sure wish I had worked harder and listened to my coach better.
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  #74  
Old 04-28-19, 08:51 PM
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Loohing back, I have no regrets. I was able to get out of Districts in a school record time and also run on the school record setting mile relay team
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  #75  
Old 05-01-19, 12:18 PM
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Andrew Schille

Andrew Schille, a 2014 Oak Hills high school graduate in Cincinnati, ran the race of his life at the Penn Relays in the 10,000 meter run finishing second in 29:41.85 running for the University of Cincinnati. He goes to #3 all time on the UC 10k list. http://pennrelaysonline.com/results/...cy=2019&en=207

He finished 47th as an Oak Hills senior at state running 16:24.83 in the 5k in Cross Country, never qualifed to state in track. Can we say high school does not always indicate what someone will do in college or can we say 5k is not a valid indicator of what someone can run in the 10k.
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  #76  
Old 05-01-19, 01:08 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
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Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Andrew Schille, a 2014 Oak Hills high school graduate in Cincinnati, ran the race of his life at the Penn Relays in the 10,000 meter run finishing second in 29:41.85 running for the University of Cincinnati. He goes to #3 all time on the UC 10k list. http://pennrelaysonline.com/results/...cy=2019&en=207

He finished 47th as an Oak Hills senior at state running 16:24.83 in the 5k in Cross Country, never qualifed to state in track. Can we say high school does not always indicate what someone will do in college or can we say 5k is not a valid indicator of what someone can run in the 10k.
Absolutely! Desire, hard work, and perseverance are what count.
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