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View Poll Results: Who is the GOAT HS Wrestling Coach in Ohio?
Harold Kester - John Hay/Cleveland West 0 0%
Mike Milkovich - Maple Heights 11 15.28%
Harold Ferguson - St Eds 11 15.28%
Bill Barger - Walsh Jesuit 4 5.56%
Greg Urbas - St Eds 13 18.06%
Jeff Jordan - Graham 33 45.83%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 05-26-18, 09:57 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by BobPreusse View Post
a problem with every pool ive ever seen is the more recent coaches/players get a big nod over those from the past, especially the far past who voters never saw in action.
Agree. Although I am impressed that Ferguson and Milkovich are getting some votes, almost as many as Urbas. It's probable that Ferguson and Urbas are both competing for the SE votes and either would be closer to Jordan if not competing with each other. A few comments about the "field:"

Kester's impressive career ended before most on this site were even born. He also was coaching at a time of far less competition in Ohio, as the early state tournaments were invitationals and much of the state didn't field teams in his era. He still was king of NE wrestling for most of his tenure.

Milkovich's run was at a time when there wasn't open enrollment and accusations of recruiting. Kids wrestled at their local schools.

Ferguson was accused of recruiting, and seemed to field a Cleveland All Star team during much of his tenure. I think great programs attract (in all sports) great wrestlers, but those accusations will continue to be levied against programs that excel. Ferguson, with all his success, was not inducted into the Ohio Wrestling Hall of Fame until after he died. Nominees are typically nominated from the regional coaches association (i.e. NEOWCA). Perhaps Ferguson wasn't even a member of the NEOWCA, but it is ironic that the most dominant coach (at the national and state level) in any era of Ohio wrestling didn't get the nod for this honor sooner than he did.

Barger had a relatively short tenure compared to the others, and his numbers reflect that. He likely would have had fewer titles in a one division setting, sharing some of Urbas' titles in his later years.

Urbas took 3 years to win his first title, and then went 5 years before winning another, primarily due to Walsh Jesuit's emergence as a state and national power in the 90's. The next 22 years saw his teams win 20 titles. While he leads the pack with 22 state titles, one wonders how many of those would not have materialized in a one division environment. Walsh Jesuit in the late 90s moved to D2 and SPG likely would have taken a number of those titles once Jordan took over.

Jordan, like Urbas, likely would not have as many titles if competing with D1 powers like SE. He would still have his fare share, but not 17. He stands out as the only coach among the GOAT nominees who is not from NE Ohio. That is impressive as NE is clearly the hub of wrestling talent in Ohio. And St Paris is literally in the middle of nowhere.
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  #32  
Old 05-26-18, 10:02 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by BobPreusse View Post
a problem with every pool ive ever seen is the more recent coaches/players get a big nod over those from the past, especially the far past who voters never saw in action.

LeBron James is on a tear now and if he leads Cleveland to the finals it will be said he and Michael Jordan and maybe Kareem Abdul Jabar are the best ever-- and maybe they are. However i saw Bill Russel play, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson. ...... so the more recent benefit in polls- usually- and private schools/open enrollment schools have an advantage.
While I don't want to give too much attention to minor sports like basketball, you named my list for Top 6 BB GOATS - in no particular order, LeBron, Jordan, Russel, Wilt, Jabar and Robertson.

Last edited by bdhof; 05-26-18 at 12:52 PM.
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  #33  
Old 05-26-18, 10:29 AM
BobPreusse BobPreusse is offline
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not to divert from the topic, but dont overlook Wilt, CAREER avg 30 points and 20 rebounds a game. Jabbar and Russel never had EVEN ONE season like that-- i dont think anyone has other than Wilt. ......

i did google this stat, of the NBA players who have had 30 pt, 30 rebound games--- there has been 147 of those 30/30 games and 128 were by Wilt Chamberlain. His claim to the GOAT is at least as strong as anyones, really much stronger than any other center's, imo.
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  #34  
Old 05-26-18, 10:57 AM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by BobPreusse View Post
not to divert from the topic, but dont overlook Wilt, CAREER avg 30 points and 20 rebounds a game. Jabbar and Russel never had EVEN ONE season like that-- i dont think anyone has other than Wilt. ......

i did google this stat, of the NBA players who have had 30 pt, 30 rebound games--- there has been 147 of those 30/30 games and 128 were by Wilt Chamberlain. His claim to the GOAT is at least as strong as anyones, really much stronger than any other center's, imo.
You and I should start a BB thread. I meant to include Wilt in that list (and did edit). Wilt's only blemish is that Russel always beat him when it counted the most. That's the only reason why Russel is in the GOAT conversation and the only reason why Wilt isn't the easy pick GOAT.

And to steer back to the oldest, greatest sport, Burroughs could tie Smith as the holder of the most World titles for USA (6) if he wins this year. Snyder, with a win gets to 4, behind Smith, Burroughs and Baumgartner (5).
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  #35  
Old 05-26-18, 12:21 PM
Pope Francis 1 Pope Francis 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
While I don't want to give too much attention to minor sports like basketball, you named my list for Top 5 BB GOATS - in no particular order, LeBron, Jordan, Russel, Wilt, Jabar and Robertson.
I counted 6......
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  #36  
Old 05-26-18, 12:51 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by Pope Francis 1 View Post
I counted 6......
Math is hard.
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  #37  
Old 05-26-18, 01:32 PM
Pope Francis 1 Pope Francis 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
Math is hard.
While it would be easy for me to single out crooked bdhof by name, I'm not gonna do that. I'll simply call into question the integrity of the pick'em contest run by crooked bdhof, who shall go nameless. We're supposed to believe that while crooked bdhof struggles to count to 6, he's perfectly adept at organizing and calculating results for the pick'em??? In closing, I simply ask all to follow my lead and not identify crooked bdhof by name when trashing him. Thank you.

PS...
1) Jordan
2) Milkovich
3) Ferguson
but I keep flip flopping on 1 & 2
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  #38  
Old 05-26-18, 03:45 PM
bdhof bdhof is offline
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Originally Posted by Pope Francis 1 View Post
PS...
1) Jordan
2) Milkovich
3) Ferguson
but I keep flip flopping on 1 & 2

Pathetic Pope says he keeps flipping on Jordan and Milkovich but he voted for Ferguson.



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  #39  
Old 05-27-18, 08:06 AM
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EagleFan EagleFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
...one wonders how many of those would not have materialized in a one division environment. Walsh Jesuit in the late 90s moved to D2 and SPG likely would have taken a number of those titles once Jordan took over.
Only one Walsh team would have taken a team title away from St. Edward (1997). Quite a few years, though, SPG would have taken that one division title. Anyone's guess on how many.
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  #40  
Old 05-27-18, 01:55 PM
darthmalice darthmalice is offline
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Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
Only one Walsh team would have taken a team title away from St. Edward (1997). Quite a few years, though, SPG would have taken that one division title. Anyone's guess on how many.
I don't know but that Graham squad from 2008 was on a mission. 07' St. Eds vs. 08' Graham is my fantasy dual.
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  #41  
Old 05-29-18, 10:25 AM
mgerome mgerome is offline
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John Storey

I'd like to throw Coach Storey (St. Josesph Wrestling) into the mix. Tough to argue his success in the 70's through the early 90's. A pioneer in many different aspects of the sport. St. Joe's was one of the earliest teams to travel out of the state and compete in "National" level tournaments. For many years, his program was one of the few to compete with St. Ed's at the Mentor District. Although, St. Joe's never had great dual meet teams year in and out, they always had a handful of very high caliber kids that had success at the state tournament. Also, a great mentor to his student athletes and ambassador for the sport of wrestling!
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